Wheels, Tires and Rolling Fenders
03-12-2003, 11:31 AM
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Imperial Red C36
Wheels, Tires and Rolling Fenders
Need some advice.
I've been grappling with the issue of new wheels and tires and how they might integrate with H&R Springs with #1 pads.
There are plenty of 18"s out there, but has anyone put 19" rims on their W202 (C36 or C43, in paticular). Just wondering if it was possible and what it might look like on a '95 C36.
Could people also respond regarding tire sizes they are currently running, other than stock. I'm very curious what people have done in terms of rubber. Pics would be great, as always.
Also, what does "rolling the fenders" actually entail. Must it always be done when applying a lowering spring and perhaps taller tire? Is it something I can do in my own shop?? Got plenty of engine experience, but when it comes to suspension, I'm a bit challenged.
Thanks in advance for the input!!!
I've been grappling with the issue of new wheels and tires and how they might integrate with H&R Springs with #1 pads.
There are plenty of 18"s out there, but has anyone put 19" rims on their W202 (C36 or C43, in paticular). Just wondering if it was possible and what it might look like on a '95 C36.
Could people also respond regarding tire sizes they are currently running, other than stock. I'm very curious what people have done in terms of rubber. Pics would be great, as always.
Also, what does "rolling the fenders" actually entail. Must it always be done when applying a lowering spring and perhaps taller tire? Is it something I can do in my own shop?? Got plenty of engine experience, but when it comes to suspension, I'm a bit challenged.
Thanks in advance for the input!!!
03-12-2003, 11:51 AM
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1998 C43
Hey MBdragracer:
To answer your questions, yes 19's will fit under your car. Though I am not too sure of what type of offset and tire sizes you will need. There will also be a greater chance of rubbing b/c of the wheel size.
On my car, I am running 225/40/18 on a 18x8 front rim, and 255/35/18 on a 18x9 rear rim. My offsets are 31 front and 35 rear, I believe I got those from the owner's manual.
As for rolling your fenders....AMG has done a slight favor for you by doing that already. With a larger than stock setup, you may need to roll your fenders slightly more to eliminate rubbing. Currently, I rub on the front right on medium to large dips. Gotta get that fixed! Basically, rolling the fenders is just making more clearance room for your wheel and tire. For example, pulling out your wheel arches a little further out. Also, the sheet metal that is folded over in the arch can be brought closer to the side so that it is not sticking out. Reach under your wheel arch and you will feel it kinda sticking out. Imagine pressing that body panel together. There is a tool that shops use, but I do not know how easy/hard it is to do. Typically, one can expect to pay 100-200.
Hope this helps. You can also do a forum search on this site to see if there are any other explanations.
To answer your questions, yes 19's will fit under your car. Though I am not too sure of what type of offset and tire sizes you will need. There will also be a greater chance of rubbing b/c of the wheel size.
On my car, I am running 225/40/18 on a 18x8 front rim, and 255/35/18 on a 18x9 rear rim. My offsets are 31 front and 35 rear, I believe I got those from the owner's manual.
As for rolling your fenders....AMG has done a slight favor for you by doing that already. With a larger than stock setup, you may need to roll your fenders slightly more to eliminate rubbing. Currently, I rub on the front right on medium to large dips. Gotta get that fixed! Basically, rolling the fenders is just making more clearance room for your wheel and tire. For example, pulling out your wheel arches a little further out. Also, the sheet metal that is folded over in the arch can be brought closer to the side so that it is not sticking out. Reach under your wheel arch and you will feel it kinda sticking out. Imagine pressing that body panel together. There is a tool that shops use, but I do not know how easy/hard it is to do. Typically, one can expect to pay 100-200.
Hope this helps. You can also do a forum search on this site to see if there are any other explanations.
03-13-2003, 09:21 AM
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Imperial Red C36
DLS:
As always, thanks for the input. Got clear corners, flat emblem and Avantgarde grill on the way from Ca. Now it's on to suspension, tire and wheel mods. It sounds like the best wheel would be 18" instead of 19"?? It's just that I've seen 19s on some other MB models and they just look so damn solid.
I wish someone who has put them on their C36 or C43 would give a shout about rubbing, offsets and tires and suspension used!!!
Another question: Given the predominant advice about H&R springs, I'm probably going to go with them. You mentioned you are using your stock shocks with them. I remember reading somewhere that slapping on new lowering springs with your stock shocks wears out the shocks in no time. Have you had any problems....do I need to purchase and install new shocks when I install the new springs?? If so, what brand and model would you suggest? Someone suggested Bilstein short shocks... not sure if they meant "sport" shocks. Any input?
In addition: did you install your springs yourself or have someone else do it? Never had to change springs before and was wondering how intricate a job it is. Can you do it with a jack and stands or do you need a full lift and special tools? Also, what pads did you use...do you have to order them separatley?
Sorry for all these questions but it's clear you have a wealth of knowledge.
Other than looking forward to accomplishing some of these minor mods, this car is phenonmenal indeed!!
-MBdrags
As always, thanks for the input. Got clear corners, flat emblem and Avantgarde grill on the way from Ca. Now it's on to suspension, tire and wheel mods. It sounds like the best wheel would be 18" instead of 19"?? It's just that I've seen 19s on some other MB models and they just look so damn solid.
I wish someone who has put them on their C36 or C43 would give a shout about rubbing, offsets and tires and suspension used!!!
Another question: Given the predominant advice about H&R springs, I'm probably going to go with them. You mentioned you are using your stock shocks with them. I remember reading somewhere that slapping on new lowering springs with your stock shocks wears out the shocks in no time. Have you had any problems....do I need to purchase and install new shocks when I install the new springs?? If so, what brand and model would you suggest? Someone suggested Bilstein short shocks... not sure if they meant "sport" shocks. Any input?
In addition: did you install your springs yourself or have someone else do it? Never had to change springs before and was wondering how intricate a job it is. Can you do it with a jack and stands or do you need a full lift and special tools? Also, what pads did you use...do you have to order them separatley?
Sorry for all these questions but it's clear you have a wealth of knowledge.
Other than looking forward to accomplishing some of these minor mods, this car is phenonmenal indeed!!
-MBdrags
03-13-2003, 01:16 PM
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1998 C43
MBdrags:
I totally agreee that 19's look pretty hot on the W202. I was contemplating on buying 19 Mono's, but my wife pointed out two things. First, a 19 inch Mono is too damn heavy! I think the 18 I have now is heavy, I cannot imagine an even heavier wheel. Second, my objective is for someone too appreciate the whole car. With a 19 inch wheel, too much attention is brought to the wheel and it overshadows my desired effect. I'm sure people would disagree, but that's how I feel. One last thing, because I wanted to stay with the AMG theme, the only 19 inch would have been the Mono.
When I got my car there was 67K on the odometer and most likely that much on the suspension. I decided to just do the shocks b/c I was unsure of how the car will ride with changing both the shocks and springs. Since the spring swap, my car has been riding just like stock on the stock shocks. I know they will wear out prematurely, but I only put on 3K miles in 7 months.
On the C43 (and I think the 36) the stock shock is a Bilstein. The short shock you are referring to is a shock designed with a shorter shaft (think thats the part name) to accomodate a lowering. I have decided to go with the Koni yellow adjustable. I hear they compliment the springs well and the adjustment settings are good for how you want to set up your ride.
As for install, I heard its not that hard, but you will need a MB spring compressor or something like that. Ask around in "wheels and suspension." They would know for sure. Pads, I am running what MB gave me. #1 in fornt and #2 rear. Your setup will be different based on the options on the car. You can pop off you wheel and look at the spring pad to see what size you have. There are little rubber bumps or knobs that will tell you the spring size. 1 bump = 1 pad, 2 bumps = 2 pad, etc etc. IF you decide on changing them, you can pick them up at the stealership. I hear they are the best and cheapest place to get spring pads.
Keep us posted on you progress. I got alot of plans for my car, gotta wait though. Btw, do you know about Bekkers? They are from GA, I believe. Their site is www.bekkers.com, you can find some stuff there maybe even save on shipping.
Regards,
DLS
I totally agreee that 19's look pretty hot on the W202. I was contemplating on buying 19 Mono's, but my wife pointed out two things. First, a 19 inch Mono is too damn heavy! I think the 18 I have now is heavy, I cannot imagine an even heavier wheel. Second, my objective is for someone too appreciate the whole car. With a 19 inch wheel, too much attention is brought to the wheel and it overshadows my desired effect. I'm sure people would disagree, but that's how I feel. One last thing, because I wanted to stay with the AMG theme, the only 19 inch would have been the Mono.
When I got my car there was 67K on the odometer and most likely that much on the suspension. I decided to just do the shocks b/c I was unsure of how the car will ride with changing both the shocks and springs. Since the spring swap, my car has been riding just like stock on the stock shocks. I know they will wear out prematurely, but I only put on 3K miles in 7 months.
On the C43 (and I think the 36) the stock shock is a Bilstein. The short shock you are referring to is a shock designed with a shorter shaft (think thats the part name) to accomodate a lowering. I have decided to go with the Koni yellow adjustable. I hear they compliment the springs well and the adjustment settings are good for how you want to set up your ride.
As for install, I heard its not that hard, but you will need a MB spring compressor or something like that. Ask around in "wheels and suspension." They would know for sure. Pads, I am running what MB gave me. #1 in fornt and #2 rear. Your setup will be different based on the options on the car. You can pop off you wheel and look at the spring pad to see what size you have. There are little rubber bumps or knobs that will tell you the spring size. 1 bump = 1 pad, 2 bumps = 2 pad, etc etc. IF you decide on changing them, you can pick them up at the stealership. I hear they are the best and cheapest place to get spring pads.
Keep us posted on you progress. I got alot of plans for my car, gotta wait though. Btw, do you know about Bekkers? They are from GA, I believe. Their site is www.bekkers.com, you can find some stuff there maybe even save on shipping.
Regards,
DLS
03-13-2003, 04:22 PM
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Imperial Red C36
DLS:
Outstanding advice, as always!!
I think your and your wife's rationale for not upping the wheel to 19" is commendable. In fact, I think you just persuaded an attorney to buy the 18s instead of the "louder" 19s. No guarantee yet, but I think your absolutely right...the car is much more than wheels.
My car has just over 90k on it (although I swear you wouldn't believe it...I know, some pics are on the way) and I don't believe the shocks have ever been changed nor is there a current need to change them, that I can feel anyway. As a result and given your experience, I think I'll keep the stock shocks and see what happens. If I have to buy new shocks later...perhaps the Koni adjustables would be the best bet...I'll do it when needed (which may be sooner rather than later because the car will most likely be my daily driver/weekend dragger).
I also heard that I shouldn't get an alignment immediately after the spring install because the springs need time to settle a bit and aligning before they settle is just a waste of money....however, not doing it may also be a waste of tires and maybe bearings to some extent. Any input?
I know 18 monos are a dime a dozen but I am curious where you purchased yours...it appears that tire rack doesn't carry them...maybe I'm doing the wrong search or I should just pick up the phone or e-mail Luke. Can you point me in the right direction>>>>>?
It's funny that you mentioned Bekkers. In fact, relying on yours and others advice, I purchased the Avantgarde grill and clear corners from Bekkers...I see they are located in Albany, Georgia....I thought they were in my native Golden State of California, my bad. I bought the flat badge from performance products...pretty sure they're in Ca. Can't wait to install those goddies as I'm sure they will help to tie the front end of the car together nicely.
Sooooo, whatcha got planned for the already stealthy C43????
Thanks for the input, DLS!!
-MBdrags
BTW - I did a little research on chips. Powerchip is a send away adjustment type of deal and very expensive while Up Solute is more of a professional installation individually tuned type of deal for close to the same or slighlty less of a tab. I'll continue to post more of my findings.
Outstanding advice, as always!!
I think your and your wife's rationale for not upping the wheel to 19" is commendable. In fact, I think you just persuaded an attorney to buy the 18s instead of the "louder" 19s. No guarantee yet, but I think your absolutely right...the car is much more than wheels.
My car has just over 90k on it (although I swear you wouldn't believe it...I know, some pics are on the way) and I don't believe the shocks have ever been changed nor is there a current need to change them, that I can feel anyway. As a result and given your experience, I think I'll keep the stock shocks and see what happens. If I have to buy new shocks later...perhaps the Koni adjustables would be the best bet...I'll do it when needed (which may be sooner rather than later because the car will most likely be my daily driver/weekend dragger).
I also heard that I shouldn't get an alignment immediately after the spring install because the springs need time to settle a bit and aligning before they settle is just a waste of money....however, not doing it may also be a waste of tires and maybe bearings to some extent. Any input?
I know 18 monos are a dime a dozen but I am curious where you purchased yours...it appears that tire rack doesn't carry them...maybe I'm doing the wrong search or I should just pick up the phone or e-mail Luke. Can you point me in the right direction>>>>>?
It's funny that you mentioned Bekkers. In fact, relying on yours and others advice, I purchased the Avantgarde grill and clear corners from Bekkers...I see they are located in Albany, Georgia....I thought they were in my native Golden State of California, my bad. I bought the flat badge from performance products...pretty sure they're in Ca. Can't wait to install those goddies as I'm sure they will help to tie the front end of the car together nicely.
Sooooo, whatcha got planned for the already stealthy C43????
Thanks for the input, DLS!!
-MBdrags
BTW - I did a little research on chips. Powerchip is a send away adjustment type of deal and very expensive while Up Solute is more of a professional installation individually tuned type of deal for close to the same or slighlty less of a tab. I'll continue to post more of my findings.
03-13-2003, 05:59 PM
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1998 C43
MBdrags:
I was thinking about spring setting b4 my first alignment too, but my shop said that the H&R spring is stiff enough that no real significant setling will happen. Besides, I had already made plans (in my head) to replace the shocks too. When I get my shocks done, I will most likely do another second re-alignment. Koni yellow adjustable shocks are the ones I have chosen. Mainly b/c of the good things I have been hearing, but being an adjustable shock puts them ahead of the rest in my book. You can even have a different front and rear setup.
I got my 18's at a Discount Tire shop right down the street from where I work. The total was about 2200, with lifetime balancing and all the other ammenity crap they give away. If you plan on doing both the wheel and shock upgrade, I would do my wheels first then shocks, then align. No sense in lowering and aligning your car if you havent changed the wheels yet, might be different with the 18. Luke is a good person to work with. He will give advice on what kinda setup will work best. Nice guy I hear too.
As for my little project.....
Actually, I am in the process of buying a home and when that goes through I will buy a commuter car (hopefully a 190E) and keep my 43 in the garage and take it out every now and then. When I decided to buy the car, I had every intention of making it a "lifer." Knowing this, I can invest a lot of time and money over the course of it's existence. I am looking into a s/c, actually doing my research now! Might be in another year or so, but that's ok. I am also considering obtaining a 5.5L engine for other future plans.
I too have looked into Powerchips, but went ahead and got an UpSolute chip ($350). I havent had it installed, the shop I got it from said they couldnt do it. So right now I am waiting on UpSolute's NA headquarters to figure things out. After doing homework, I learned that a replacement chip like UpSolute/Powerchip etc. etc. might not be what's best for my car. I did some homework on in-house tuning and talked to a shop. The owner said it could work, but he has seen problems with cars and the newer OBD II. If UpSolute cannot help me, then I might go with this shop. I can send you the info...forgot the name!
BTW, what kinda law do you practice? If it's criminal we should talk. Nothing bad, just my line of work could be helpful.
Talk to you later,
DLS
PS I'm gonna take a pic of a mod I did that you'll probably like too. I'll try and post it later.
I was thinking about spring setting b4 my first alignment too, but my shop said that the H&R spring is stiff enough that no real significant setling will happen. Besides, I had already made plans (in my head) to replace the shocks too. When I get my shocks done, I will most likely do another second re-alignment. Koni yellow adjustable shocks are the ones I have chosen. Mainly b/c of the good things I have been hearing, but being an adjustable shock puts them ahead of the rest in my book. You can even have a different front and rear setup.
I got my 18's at a Discount Tire shop right down the street from where I work. The total was about 2200, with lifetime balancing and all the other ammenity crap they give away. If you plan on doing both the wheel and shock upgrade, I would do my wheels first then shocks, then align. No sense in lowering and aligning your car if you havent changed the wheels yet, might be different with the 18. Luke is a good person to work with. He will give advice on what kinda setup will work best. Nice guy I hear too.
As for my little project.....
Actually, I am in the process of buying a home and when that goes through I will buy a commuter car (hopefully a 190E) and keep my 43 in the garage and take it out every now and then. When I decided to buy the car, I had every intention of making it a "lifer." Knowing this, I can invest a lot of time and money over the course of it's existence. I am looking into a s/c, actually doing my research now! Might be in another year or so, but that's ok. I am also considering obtaining a 5.5L engine for other future plans.I too have looked into Powerchips, but went ahead and got an UpSolute chip ($350). I havent had it installed, the shop I got it from said they couldnt do it. So right now I am waiting on UpSolute's NA headquarters to figure things out. After doing homework, I learned that a replacement chip like UpSolute/Powerchip etc. etc. might not be what's best for my car. I did some homework on in-house tuning and talked to a shop. The owner said it could work, but he has seen problems with cars and the newer OBD II. If UpSolute cannot help me, then I might go with this shop. I can send you the info...forgot the name!
BTW, what kinda law do you practice? If it's criminal we should talk. Nothing bad, just my line of work could be helpful.
Talk to you later,
DLS
PS I'm gonna take a pic of a mod I did that you'll probably like too. I'll try and post it later.
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03-16-2003, 02:10 PM
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1998 C43
I got them from Perfomance Products. They were around $100 and took about 6 weeks to deliver (out of stock). I am under the impression they are real, b/c they sell other AMG products Anyway to tell?
DLS
DLS
03-19-2003, 09:55 AM
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Imperial Red C36
Those sills are downright sweet!! Oh well, looks like I'll be spending another c-note on door sills. I'm sure my better half won't mind. Sorry you had to wait so long to get them....must have been frustrating waiting that long!!!!
BTW: cleaned out my air filter over the weekend....boy did it ever need it!! Funny how a simple maintenance tip can really cause some action.
I'll let ya know how my minor future mods go....and post some pics now that my camera is fixed. Planning on heading out to Atlanta Dragway this Saturday to flex the muscles a bit.
See you in the left lane.....
BTW: cleaned out my air filter over the weekend....boy did it ever need it!! Funny how a simple maintenance tip can really cause some action.
I'll let ya know how my minor future mods go....and post some pics now that my camera is fixed. Planning on heading out to Atlanta Dragway this Saturday to flex the muscles a bit.
See you in the left lane.....
05-28-2003, 07:26 AM
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Imperial Red C36
Hey DLS and all:
Here's what I finally went with (expect delivery tomorrow!!!):
H&R Sport Springs - something new and different:o
Koni Adjustables - sure wish they were externally adjustable though
18" Carlsson 2/6 Brilliant Editions - heavy but gorgeous
Toyo T1-S (225 40 18 F, 255 35 18 R) (won 2 Toyos of my picking drag racing so had to go with them)
Hoping for the install some time early next week - I'll post some pics!!
Here's what I finally went with (expect delivery tomorrow!!!):
H&R Sport Springs - something new and different:o
Koni Adjustables - sure wish they were externally adjustable though
18" Carlsson 2/6 Brilliant Editions - heavy but gorgeous
Toyo T1-S (225 40 18 F, 255 35 18 R) (won 2 Toyos of my picking drag racing so had to go with them)
Hoping for the install some time early next week - I'll post some pics!!
05-28-2003, 12:58 PM
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AMG C43, 1999
You guys might want to consider buying some QA1 shocks. They are externally adjustable and rebuildable and retunable.
While they do not have applications for the AMG or Mercedes C36/C43 I could give them my specs off the Penske I own and they could build shock to match the size and damping values.
What do you think?
Jeff
While they do not have applications for the AMG or Mercedes C36/C43 I could give them my specs off the Penske I own and they could build shock to match the size and damping values.
What do you think?
Jeff
06-22-2003, 01:57 AM
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Uber 202
i had 19' rims on my w202. 19 x 8.5 are the biggest you can fit, front tire size was 225/35, the rears can fit 235/35. you also mite have to run a very thin spacer.
03-08-2010, 10:53 PM
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C43
I have had Carlsson 19" 1/6 on my C280 and now I have 2/6 on my C43 and they are both the staggered sets (19x8.5 and 19x10) so you can fit more.
03-09-2010, 01:46 AM
#17
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Koni adjustables suck, have them on my DD cossie and adjusted all the way stiff still suck around the turns and all the way soft still suck on the bumps. Should have gotten Blistein Sports. Lowering a car wont "wear out the shocks fast". stock shocks are blistein HDs. Rubbing is all about your tire size. You can go as low as you want and wide a rim as you want with the right tires. Plus some stretch looks sexy, and with the limited "performance" mods for 36s and 43s that today are about as fast as an average car and theyre lack of a clutch just better off to go for looks IMO.
Last edited by AMGC; 03-09-2010 at 02:04 AM.
05-12-2010, 10:17 PM
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2006 Porsche Carrera C4S/ 2006 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
what are the maximum offsets that can fit on the C36? I'm trying to see if the W211 E55 stock wheels will work out:
18X8et35 fronts and 18X9et42 rears
18X8et35 fronts and 18X9et42 rears
05-14-2010, 12:00 AM
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05-31-2010, 04:04 PM
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I got 19"X8.5 in the front on 235's and 19"X9.5 in rear on 265's right now and I don't rub. Of course I am not lowered yet
05-31-2010, 06:34 PM
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BMW and Mercedes
My main beef with 19"s or > on a w202 is how proportionately narrow the wheels and tires have to be to make it fit. I'm all about wide, aggressive wheels, and it just looks dumb to sit behind a small sedan jacked up on 19-20" wheels that are 8-9" wide. I'd much rather have fatter rubber on wider 17-18" wheels personally.
