How much can you get out of a c43 while keeping it N\A
03-10-2010, 06:33 AM
#101
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I don't think he can ans your question. I think you and Speedybenz also smashed his theory on auto vs manual with his post.
I'll take my C43 5.5L or your C55 over any modded W201 any day of the week. I like the W201 16v however the only way I could justify owning a W201 car would only be if it were turbocharged and could run some serious boost,not because it has a 5 speed tranny. I still would not take it over a C43 or C55 for track duty. My prediction is that BOTH cars would SMASH a W201 16V 2.3,2.5 on the track modded like Speedybenz says.
I have my C43 aligned with the same exact specs Speedy mentioned and I tell you it has made a big difference.
My friend with his E39 6spd M5 duly noted it. We did a comparison driving both cars and he will tell you my car feels a whoie lot tighter handling wise vs his car. Also we noted that his M5 has a very hard time putting the power down to the ground with out constantly spinning the tires ,also I feel a result of having his manual tranny. My C43 just does a light squat and is GONE!
Then I'd take my E36 BMW M3 or a E30 M3 over the W201 if the issue was mainly about having a 5speed.
Even though it's fun to drive my M3 ,if I were to sell anyone of my cars,it would def be the M3 b4 the C43 I could tell you that.
I'll take my C43 5.5L or your C55 over any modded W201 any day of the week. I like the W201 16v however the only way I could justify owning a W201 car would only be if it were turbocharged and could run some serious boost,not because it has a 5 speed tranny. I still would not take it over a C43 or C55 for track duty. My prediction is that BOTH cars would SMASH a W201 16V 2.3,2.5 on the track modded like Speedybenz says.
I have my C43 aligned with the same exact specs Speedy mentioned and I tell you it has made a big difference.
My friend with his E39 6spd M5 duly noted it. We did a comparison driving both cars and he will tell you my car feels a whoie lot tighter handling wise vs his car. Also we noted that his M5 has a very hard time putting the power down to the ground with out constantly spinning the tires ,also I feel a result of having his manual tranny. My C43 just does a light squat and is GONE!
Then I'd take my E36 BMW M3 or a E30 M3 over the W201 if the issue was mainly about having a 5speed.
Even though it's fun to drive my M3 ,if I were to sell anyone of my cars,it would def be the M3 b4 the C43 I could tell you that.
Last edited by ProjectC55; 03-10-2010 at 06:36 AM.
03-10-2010, 10:16 AM
#103
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You do realize that your 190E is different from my C55 and that after market headers aren't built the same right? My headers are not direct bolt on shorties and have a different down pipe that eliminates the primary cats. Therefore, I must cut and weld the downpipe onto the existing exhaust pipes. I don't have the equipment to do so, so I opted to have them installed professionally.
You still didn't respond to my other questions.
I agree. I do like the older model MB's for nostalgia and fun factor but there is a reason why, MB chose to put an automatic in its track-heavy cars; The CLK63 BS and the SL65 BS.
You still didn't respond to my other questions.
I'll take my C43 5.5L or your C55 over any modded W201 any day of the week. I like the W201 16v however the only way I could justify owning a W201 car would only be if it were turbocharged and could run some serious boost,not because it has a 5 speed tranny. I still would not take it over a C43 or C55 for track duty. My prediction is that BOTH cars would SMASH a W201 16V 2.3,2.5 on the track modded like Speedybenz says.
03-10-2010, 11:33 AM
#104
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And why many racecars have gone with sequential shift trannies as well.
Soon,Done are the days of shifting with a stickshift with high powered track and street performing road cars.
Thank God I have my W202 with this lovely V8 and auto trans that I can shift manually as well. A car No W201 that I know of could hang with it.
I would be willing to give a go of it on a road course as well.
I know Chappy is enjoying the hell out of his W208 CLK55 on road race courses in Atl.
Last edited by ProjectC55; 03-10-2010 at 11:35 AM.
03-10-2010, 12:03 PM
#105
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BMW and Mercedes
(I'll even provide the C43 for comparison purposes)
03-10-2010, 12:51 PM
#106
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Back to making more Hp. On my C43 i removed the front fog lights and then fabricated the openings so that race brake ducting will fit on both sides. I riveted the ducting to the front bumper covering. To these ducts I attached 4 inch brake duct tubing which then comes up through the frame area and attaches to the airbox. It really helps to create a ram air entrance for the intake system and I have measured positive pressure in the tubing up to around 80 mph or better(I was by myself, or I would have measured higher speeds) Anyhow with the ram air system in-place I can normally keep my intake air temps down substanially so that they stay around 10 degrees hotter than the ambient air temp. Using my Palm Dyno by Nology I was able to repeatedly pick up 8Hp to 12Hp at 60 to 118 mph at which point the tranny shifts out of 3rd gear and stops the dyno run....Jeff
03-10-2010, 07:00 PM
#107
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AMG C43, 1999
C43AMG
Since my brake are a full race package setup with thicker rotors( the rotors are a 2 piece set-up and the caliper is very stout- all by the Brakeman) I do not have any heat issue as long as I use a very good fluid like Motul 600. They are the same race brakes they sell to NASA American Iron, racecars like Mustang's and Camero's, etc.
I notice the extra Hp from the ram air set-up and so I stuck with that option. I could route another set of ducts to the brakes if I needed to in the future.
Jeff
Since my brake are a full race package setup with thicker rotors( the rotors are a 2 piece set-up and the caliper is very stout- all by the Brakeman) I do not have any heat issue as long as I use a very good fluid like Motul 600. They are the same race brakes they sell to NASA American Iron, racecars like Mustang's and Camero's, etc.
I notice the extra Hp from the ram air set-up and so I stuck with that option. I could route another set of ducts to the brakes if I needed to in the future.
Jeff
Last edited by speedybenz; 03-10-2010 at 07:07 PM.
03-11-2010, 09:03 AM
#108
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03-11-2010, 11:43 AM
#109
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BMW and Mercedes
03-11-2010, 01:06 PM
#110
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C43AMG
Since my brake are a full race package setup with thicker rotors( the rotors are a 2 piece set-up and the caliper is very stout- all by the Brakeman) I do not have any heat issue as long as I use a very good fluid like Motul 600. They are the same race brakes they sell to NASA American Iron, racecars like Mustang's and Camero's, etc.
I notice the extra Hp from the ram air set-up and so I stuck with that option. I could route another set of ducts to the brakes if I needed to in the future.
Jeff
Since my brake are a full race package setup with thicker rotors( the rotors are a 2 piece set-up and the caliper is very stout- all by the Brakeman) I do not have any heat issue as long as I use a very good fluid like Motul 600. They are the same race brakes they sell to NASA American Iron, racecars like Mustang's and Camero's, etc.
I notice the extra Hp from the ram air set-up and so I stuck with that option. I could route another set of ducts to the brakes if I needed to in the future.
Jeff
Thanx Jeff !
03-11-2010, 10:00 PM
#111
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Here's the 190rev Link which I have been updating for the last 3 or 4 years. Following the latest engine build (should be done here pretty soon), the car will hopefully be done in the next few months.
However I still love what your doing there. Hang in there
03-13-2010, 02:49 PM
#112
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96 and 08 911 turbos
Well here is my take on the Auto vs. Manual. The AMG Auto wins out because I can shift gears when I want to and it makes it less of a distraction when I want to go really fast. If you look at all the current go fast race cars, (and I bring up race cars because they are only concerned with going fast) they are mostly clutchless manuals and the like. Not having to shift gears frees up your left foot to brake and balance the car in different ways than having to shift and use your left foot to use a clutch.
With my AMG auto I can always put it into whatever gear I want to and it will hold that gear right up to when I bounce it off the rev limiter, just like a manual. If the revs fall to low I shift it down a gear so, I just dont see the advantage of having the manual except for the distraction of clutching and all that mess. Not having to deal with that extra task just makes it easier to go much faster.
If you missmatch the front and rear tire diameters the ESP gets confused a little bit and allows you to get the back end of the car out at a pretty good clip and does not get into the way. It is still possible to spin the car and get into all sorts of trouble.
Please don't take my comments to mean I think the C43 chassis(W202) is the best thing in the world, I just think it does a pretty damn good car and does a great job and with the car properly set-up you can make it go very quickly, but I am sure I could the same thing with a W203 or W204. How fast you go is more dependant on your skill as a driver than the make or track worthyness of the car. A lesser skilled driver in a Ferrari is not going to be faster than a skilled driver in a Volkswagon GTi with sticky tires.
Jeff
With my AMG auto I can always put it into whatever gear I want to and it will hold that gear right up to when I bounce it off the rev limiter, just like a manual. If the revs fall to low I shift it down a gear so, I just dont see the advantage of having the manual except for the distraction of clutching and all that mess. Not having to deal with that extra task just makes it easier to go much faster.
If you missmatch the front and rear tire diameters the ESP gets confused a little bit and allows you to get the back end of the car out at a pretty good clip and does not get into the way. It is still possible to spin the car and get into all sorts of trouble.
Please don't take my comments to mean I think the C43 chassis(W202) is the best thing in the world, I just think it does a pretty damn good car and does a great job and with the car properly set-up you can make it go very quickly, but I am sure I could the same thing with a W203 or W204. How fast you go is more dependant on your skill as a driver than the make or track worthyness of the car. A lesser skilled driver in a Ferrari is not going to be faster than a skilled driver in a Volkswagon GTi with sticky tires.
Jeff
I have had several 722.6 gearboxes in everything from a 210 e-class to an s500 to an SL55. Great for around town, but damn near useless on the track.
Stop defending what you have just because you have it.
03-13-2010, 04:37 PM
#113
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AMG C43, 1999
Oliveoil,
It was not a direct comparision, so don't get your panties in a wad. As an auto there is room for improvment. But used as a manual where you shift gears on your own they are the equivilant to lots of manual gearboxs in operation. How simple is it. You shift it into 3rd from 4th and it goes into gear and holds that gear up to redline and even at redline it will not shift gear.
If you get going too slow you need to shift down a gear, you move the lever with your arm. Maybe you are too lazy to do that, I don't know. The rest of us seem to have it figured out.
But then it sounds like you have more than one issue here.
Jeff
It was not a direct comparision, so don't get your panties in a wad. As an auto there is room for improvment. But used as a manual where you shift gears on your own they are the equivilant to lots of manual gearboxs in operation. How simple is it. You shift it into 3rd from 4th and it goes into gear and holds that gear up to redline and even at redline it will not shift gear.
If you get going too slow you need to shift down a gear, you move the lever with your arm. Maybe you are too lazy to do that, I don't know. The rest of us seem to have it figured out.
But then it sounds like you have more than one issue here.
Jeff
Last edited by speedybenz; 03-13-2010 at 10:20 PM.
03-14-2010, 08:51 AM
#115
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96 and 08 911 turbos
Oliveoil,
It was not a direct comparision, so don't get your panties in a wad. As an auto there is room for improvment. But used as a manual where you shift gears on your own they are the equivilant to lots of manual gearboxs in operation. How simple is it. You shift it into 3rd from 4th and it goes into gear and holds that gear up to redline and even at redline it will not shift gear.
If you get going too slow you need to shift down a gear, you move the lever with your arm. Maybe you are too lazy to do that, I don't know. The rest of us seem to have it figured out.
But then it sounds like you have more than one issue here.
Jeff
It was not a direct comparision, so don't get your panties in a wad. As an auto there is room for improvment. But used as a manual where you shift gears on your own they are the equivilant to lots of manual gearboxs in operation. How simple is it. You shift it into 3rd from 4th and it goes into gear and holds that gear up to redline and even at redline it will not shift gear.
If you get going too slow you need to shift down a gear, you move the lever with your arm. Maybe you are too lazy to do that, I don't know. The rest of us seem to have it figured out.
But then it sounds like you have more than one issue here.
Jeff
No, an automatic used in manual mode is not the same in operation as a manual transmission.
While the concept of changing up and down is the same, the immediacy of the shifts is massively different. Even in M mode, at full throttle, you hit the paddle and you get a shift about 400rpm later. Downshifts are even worse, with the car sometimes refusing to shift. When I want a shift, I want it now. The only way you get that is with a manual or an automated manual. That is just the nature of torque converter automatics.
Now you mentioned race cars. Think about every racing series. SCCA, trans am, f1, ALMS, touring car, etc etc. These cars either have standard manuals, sequentially shifted manuals, or paddle shifted manuals. None of them use torque converters or automatic transmissions.
Not to mention the automatic saps more power.
Manual> automatic by a mile for road racing. No one would argue otherwise.
03-15-2010, 03:45 PM
#116
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AMG C43, 1999
oliverk,
What I am takling about is using your car for track day or even time trials. In those instances I don't believe that the automatic in the C43 is a hinderence to going very fast and setting quick lap times.
I spent over ten years at the race track, from Willow Springs, to Laguna Seca, Sears Pt, Buttonwillow, Thunderhill and others. During the last 5 years I was the top Privateer on the West Coast racing 750 Superbikes and 750 Supersport with the AMA, WSMC, CCS, and AFM where I was a multipule class champion and AFM Overall Champion twice. http://www.afmreunion.org/index.php?...&limitstart=24
I know that when it comes to racing I would want a manual or better yet a sequential gearbox like the Superbike had. And in a racing situation I can fully see the advantage to a manual or paddle shift gearbox. But in a trackday car or time attack were you are not racing I think the automatic in manual mode serves very well. I certainly don't think the difference could add up to more than .2 to .5 tenths of a second per lap during the two types of trackday events I am referencing.
Jeff
What I am takling about is using your car for track day or even time trials. In those instances I don't believe that the automatic in the C43 is a hinderence to going very fast and setting quick lap times.
I spent over ten years at the race track, from Willow Springs, to Laguna Seca, Sears Pt, Buttonwillow, Thunderhill and others. During the last 5 years I was the top Privateer on the West Coast racing 750 Superbikes and 750 Supersport with the AMA, WSMC, CCS, and AFM where I was a multipule class champion and AFM Overall Champion twice. http://www.afmreunion.org/index.php?...&limitstart=24
I know that when it comes to racing I would want a manual or better yet a sequential gearbox like the Superbike had. And in a racing situation I can fully see the advantage to a manual or paddle shift gearbox. But in a trackday car or time attack were you are not racing I think the automatic in manual mode serves very well. I certainly don't think the difference could add up to more than .2 to .5 tenths of a second per lap during the two types of trackday events I am referencing.
Jeff
Last edited by speedybenz; 03-16-2010 at 06:07 PM.
03-18-2010, 09:34 PM
#117
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With regards back to things that can put more power into the c43, i have a few questions::
Would an e55header swap into c43's result in any positive gains? they both use variants of the m113 engine, but did they also copypasta the headers to each other, or did the e55 get bigger diameter headers/etc?
K&N claims 1-4bhp gains on their drop in air filters for the c43. Is it worth the risk to drop $100 and potentially get a MAF sensor failure? I've already done this on my c230 and it's been working great, but just need to make sure.
The c43 i have also has straightpiped exhaust. It sounds great, but I'm about 75% sure that this has an adverse affect on performance, (at least in the low to mid end). Has anyone else done this and can confirm powerloss/gains with no resonator and muffler?
I'm also looking into an AMS m113 n/a pulley, but (AMS please don't take offense) i've been reading VERY mixed reviews about it. Anyone have this running on their m113, and can provide feedback?
Would an e55header swap into c43's result in any positive gains? they both use variants of the m113 engine, but did they also copypasta the headers to each other, or did the e55 get bigger diameter headers/etc?
K&N claims 1-4bhp gains on their drop in air filters for the c43. Is it worth the risk to drop $100 and potentially get a MAF sensor failure? I've already done this on my c230 and it's been working great, but just need to make sure.
The c43 i have also has straightpiped exhaust. It sounds great, but I'm about 75% sure that this has an adverse affect on performance, (at least in the low to mid end). Has anyone else done this and can confirm powerloss/gains with no resonator and muffler?
I'm also looking into an AMS m113 n/a pulley, but (AMS please don't take offense) i've been reading VERY mixed reviews about it. Anyone have this running on their m113, and can provide feedback?
Last edited by LawRens; 03-18-2010 at 09:35 PM. Reason: more info
03-19-2010, 07:49 AM
#118
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E55 exhaust manifolds won't fit and I'm not sure if the runner diameter is different, but I doubt it.
03-19-2010, 10:34 PM
#119
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03-19-2010, 10:45 PM
#120
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03-21-2010, 11:58 PM
#121
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Thread Starter
Drove a C32 amg and the brakes were scary lol so its gona have to be a naaaa
I havent driven a benz that brakes as good as a C43 honestly. Ive driven a SL600, brakes were nowhere as good. Even a w211 E55 with 8 piston calipers. Nothing like C43 brakes
I havent driven a benz that brakes as good as a C43 honestly. Ive driven a SL600, brakes were nowhere as good. Even a w211 E55 with 8 piston calipers. Nothing like C43 brakes
03-22-2010, 02:20 AM
#122
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Drove a c55 today, didn't slam the brakes but they definitely felt as strong as, if not stronger, than c43 brakes. Never tried the c32 though.
03-22-2010, 04:23 AM
#123
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1995 C 36 AMG; 1992 W124 300E (M103 Ex Mosselman TT KIT) was 320hp @10psi now stock :(
the best i have tried in brakes from any merc are on the 1995 C36 AMG, they can stand such a beating and never complain. second to that are the 32 AMG, but i havent really pushed a 43 to really need the brakes, so maybe i should try it soon.
03-22-2010, 05:52 AM
#124
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C43 AMG
the amount of power to be extracted from the 43 engine are probably great but wil also cost you great $$$. my advice would be build a full race motor with forgies and fully worked heads roller rockers bigger valves port polish thoe works custom extractors etc and the the auto rebuilt so you can give it a beating. depend how far you want to go and how much cash you got
03-25-2010, 10:56 AM
#125
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