RWHP
12-01-2010, 04:13 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
The C63 and the W208 CLK55 are in there though...along with the SL55 and SL600.I've been using my '54 300SL, and have now dumped about all the mods into it...still not quite quick enough to match the '70s exotica (Lambos, Ferraris, etc) in the Supercar Nostalgia cup though. Doh!
12-01-2010, 05:11 PM
#27
Super Member
again not trying to start a flame war but neither of you answered my question. No doubt the C36 engine is more tuned than the C43's (4 valves per cylinder vs 3 valves per cylinder) but we are talking physics here.... Less power + more weight = slower car, I think we could all agreee on that.
What matters is the area under the power curve, not the highest spike in the curve. In fact, strictly mathematically speaking, your car spends an infinitely small amount of time at exactly the peak RPM. Practically speaking it spends some of the time at or around the peak RPM. But in the end what will matter is where the gearing puts the car, how well it will shift gears and for each infinitely sub-divisible period of time, what the power output at that instance is (that specific RPM point).
If you want a slightly dumber (read: easier) answer. then read this:
- Better torque curve (plateauing power curve)
- Very tight shifting transmission (short time spent shifting)
A 6cyl engine can often feel faster because its more peaky and workers harder to move the same vehicle, where as a V8 doesn't need to try as hard to move the car, its can seem almost effortless/not as fast. Sit them side by side and run them in a str8 line. The law of physics will not be out done here. C43 is lighter with more power in every way and an extra gear. If you do it, pleas video it!!!
Last edited by jumph4x; 12-01-2010 at 05:19 PM.
12-01-2010, 05:16 PM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here is the answer to your question: calculus.
What matters is the area under the power curve, not the highest spike in the curve. In fact, strictly mathematically speaking, your car spends an infinitely small amount of time at exactly the peak RPM. Practically speaking it spends some of the time at or around the peak RPM. But in the end what will matter is where the gearing puts the car, how well it will shift gears and for each infinitely sub-divisible period of time, what the power output at that instance is (that specific RPM point).
If you want a slightly dumber (read: easier) answer. then read this:
What matters is the area under the power curve, not the highest spike in the curve. In fact, strictly mathematically speaking, your car spends an infinitely small amount of time at exactly the peak RPM. Practically speaking it spends some of the time at or around the peak RPM. But in the end what will matter is where the gearing puts the car, how well it will shift gears and for each infinitely sub-divisible period of time, what the power output at that instance is (that specific RPM point).
If you want a slightly dumber (read: easier) answer. then read this:
- Better torque curve (plateauing power curve)
- Very tight shifting transmission (short time spent shifting)
12-01-2010, 06:37 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
again not trying to start a flame war but neither of you answered my question. No doubt the C36 engine is more tuned than the C43's (4 valves per cylinder vs 3 valves per cylinder) but we are talking physics here.... Less power + more weight = slower car, I think we could all agreee on that.
12-01-2010, 07:14 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Your reaching with the dyno statement.... The gearing and drivetrain loss play a factor but I believe it is more along the lines of what Jumph4x had posted.
12-01-2010, 08:48 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hmm...I've been playing GT5 since I got it last week. From the car lists I've seen, and of course browsing through the game, unfortunately the C36 and the C43 are not represented. The C63 and the W208 CLK55 are in there though...along with the SL55 and SL600.
I've been using my '54 300SL, and have now dumped about all the mods into it...still not quite quick enough to match the '70s exotica (Lambos, Ferraris, etc) in the Supercar Nostalgia cup though. Doh!
The C63 and the W208 CLK55 are in there though...along with the SL55 and SL600.I've been using my '54 300SL, and have now dumped about all the mods into it...still not quite quick enough to match the '70s exotica (Lambos, Ferraris, etc) in the Supercar Nostalgia cup though. Doh!
Page 2, look under mercedes. I stand corrected, the c36 will not be represented, but the c43 should, and will be. just probably not in the initial CD. too many cars to push in.
12-01-2010, 09:00 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
The point of this post was, feelings are not a good way to judge how fast something is. Feelings are nothing but personal perceptions you make the end judgement on. Not a fact.
Here is the answer to your question: calculus.
What matters is the area under the power curve, not the highest spike in the curve. In fact, strictly mathematically speaking, your car spends an infinitely small amount of time at exactly the peak RPM. Practically speaking it spends some of the time at or around the peak RPM. But in the end what will matter is where the gearing puts the car, how well it will shift gears and for each infinitely sub-divisible period of time, what the power output at that instance is (that specific RPM point).
If you want a slightly dumber (read: easier) answer. then read this:
None of this makes sense. Cylinder count has nothing to do with any of this. It all torque curve. Consider an F1 engine (V8) and a turbodiesel semi (I6). It is bore, stroke, valving and timing. Doesn't matter what the engine is: if you floor the pedal both cars will throw stoichiometry out the window and will try to extract the maximum amount of power they can. They will both work as hard as the factory tuning lets them.
This ends nothing. I will end it when a C43 runs me.
What matters is the area under the power curve, not the highest spike in the curve. In fact, strictly mathematically speaking, your car spends an infinitely small amount of time at exactly the peak RPM. Practically speaking it spends some of the time at or around the peak RPM. But in the end what will matter is where the gearing puts the car, how well it will shift gears and for each infinitely sub-divisible period of time, what the power output at that instance is (that specific RPM point).
If you want a slightly dumber (read: easier) answer. then read this:
- Better torque curve (plateauing power curve)
- Very tight shifting transmission (short time spent shifting)
None of this makes sense. Cylinder count has nothing to do with any of this. It all torque curve. Consider an F1 engine (V8) and a turbodiesel semi (I6). It is bore, stroke, valving and timing. Doesn't matter what the engine is: if you floor the pedal both cars will throw stoichiometry out the window and will try to extract the maximum amount of power they can. They will both work as hard as the factory tuning lets them.
This ends nothing. I will end it when a C43 runs me.
12-02-2010, 01:54 AM
#33
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1995 C 36 AMG; 1992 W124 300E (M103 Ex Mosselman TT KIT) was 320hp @10psi now stock :(
the thing is the 43 dose claim to have some 306 hp and 300lbft but it doesnt really feel it especially that its fitted with shorter gearing. The V8 simply doesnt feel torquy low down and prolly those 306 hp only come at a very tight rpm range before trailing off again. Any way so as not to be blamed for a war here i will quit this debate and i admit ur logic is correct yet on tests done by autocar and many other mags the 36 and 43 came up dead on par.
12-02-2010, 02:06 AM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm starting to wonder why this matters? Both cars are great and fun to drive, the end. Just like the C32 guys claims their cars a on par based on car mags and sometimes better than the C55, who cares??? You buy the one you want and make it your own. Let's leave the mines faster than yours talk up to the guys in the w203 section, they are good at it.
12-02-2010, 02:29 AM
#35
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
again not trying to start a flame war but neither of you answered my question. No doubt the C36 engine is more tuned than the C43's (4 valves per cylinder vs 3 valves per cylinder) but we are talking physics here.... Less power + more weight = slower car, I think we could all agreee on that.
12-02-2010, 11:10 AM
#36
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Thread Starter
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...ad.php?t=33712
Page 2, look under mercedes. I stand corrected, the c36 will not be represented, but the c43 should, and will be. just probably not in the initial CD. too many cars to push in.
Page 2, look under mercedes. I stand corrected, the c36 will not be represented, but the c43 should, and will be. just probably not in the initial CD. too many cars to push in.
Try this list:
http://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo...cial-car-list/
