M3 owner looking to switch into a C36/43, have one simple question
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C63BS
M3 owner looking to switch into a C36/43, have one simple question
Hey everyone, i've been a BMW owner my whole life but the recent crop of BMWs has really lost the wonderful steering feel i've come to love. Its gotten so bad on the BMW side of the pond that i'm dead set on switching, however the new/current C63 has pretty dead/numb steering.
So Im thinking of switching into a C36/43 since I've always lusted after one since I was a child and was hoping it could have a better steering rack (read: non electric).
My question to all you owners is how is the steering in your estimation? Is it very numb? Does it have good weighting?
Any comments are appreciated!
So Im thinking of switching into a C36/43 since I've always lusted after one since I was a child and was hoping it could have a better steering rack (read: non electric).
My question to all you owners is how is the steering in your estimation? Is it very numb? Does it have good weighting?
Any comments are appreciated!
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From: Chapel Hill, NC/Montreal, QC
1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
IMO, if feel is what you're looking for, the C36 gives you more feel in both steering and brakes. It could be the way my 43 was maintained, but my 43 wheels much more disconnected than my 36 did. Not that it isn't nimble and it provides decent feedback, but to me the 36 felt more connected. Same steering rack. Same suspension. Just did to me. I'd suggest trying to find a 43 and a 36 and comparing them yourself
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From: America
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
Sad to hear the BMW crowd losing one!
I agree with above. C36 is much more classic, raw car than the C43. The 43 has much more modern steering setup and transmission which translates to numb, stiff, and sterile. Despite the fact that the huge gains in hp you can get in a 43 with engine swaps, preupdate w202 cars are more fun to drive, and the 36 is the cream of the crop from that era. My ultimate goal is kleemann supercharged 5.4l 525hp in my 43 as project car, and a pure stock 36 for daily driving. But I'm a 202 fanatic.
I agree with above. C36 is much more classic, raw car than the C43. The 43 has much more modern steering setup and transmission which translates to numb, stiff, and sterile. Despite the fact that the huge gains in hp you can get in a 43 with engine swaps, preupdate w202 cars are more fun to drive, and the 36 is the cream of the crop from that era. My ultimate goal is kleemann supercharged 5.4l 525hp in my 43 as project car, and a pure stock 36 for daily driving. But I'm a 202 fanatic.
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i believe you won't like MB if you come from Bmw-land?
w202 has an old style steering, beemers had better steering rack n pinion, MB did not have this.
driving feel is much better on beemers.
had my complete suspension renewed on my c43 recently, now it's steering feel is like a gocart when i lowered it and fitted new shox
everything is now tight like a virgin mary.
testdrive a few mb's then decide if you wanna abandon beemers for stuttgart cars
w202 has an old style steering, beemers had better steering rack n pinion, MB did not have this.
driving feel is much better on beemers.
had my complete suspension renewed on my c43 recently, now it's steering feel is like a gocart when i lowered it and fitted new shox
everything is now tight like a virgin mary.
testdrive a few mb's then decide if you wanna abandon beemers for stuttgart cars
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From: America
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
kowalski may have also cut right to the point. if you're upset with BMW's current steering feel, an older MB won't compare to an older BMW. If I weren't such an MB guy, I'd have an E36 M3 for fun, and an E46 330 for daily driver. You might also be happier sticking to an older Beemer. C36 is one of my top 5 all time favorite cars, but prolly not gonna compare well to an M3 of the same year, especially when it comes to BMW's biggest strengths: steering and suspension.
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C63BS
Damn guys, this is not what I was hoping to hear (I have been spending the whole morning finding nice C36s to go see on the weekend).
I do appreciate the honest responses and it will give me some pause. I should probably consider an E46 (my favorite of all the 3 series-- I've owned them all believe it or not).
Now I do plan on adding coilover suspension to the C36/43, maybee that will give that nicely weighted and fun steering feel? Maybee i'll luck out and find a used C36/43 for sale in my area which already has suspension and be able to get a test drive.
Thanks again!
I do appreciate the honest responses and it will give me some pause. I should probably consider an E46 (my favorite of all the 3 series-- I've owned them all believe it or not).
Now I do plan on adding coilover suspension to the C36/43, maybee that will give that nicely weighted and fun steering feel? Maybee i'll luck out and find a used C36/43 for sale in my area which already has suspension and be able to get a test drive.
Thanks again!
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From: Canada
eclectic assortment of cars
The 202 doesn't even have a rack, but rather recirculating ball steering. I personally found my C43's steering to be rather vague and slow, and if you are coming from the vaunted M3, you would probably be disappointed. But, as has been discussed, perhaps a refresh of all the major steering and suspension components would help immeasurably, along with performance tires.
I recently drove a 993 for a short distance and thought its steering was quite nice and feelsome. Of my current crop of cars, I actually prefer the feel of my C55 the best - hydraulically assisted rack and pinion. My S2000 feels decent enough on the road, but lacks a bit of weight and feel when pushing harder.
I recently drove a 993 for a short distance and thought its steering was quite nice and feelsome. Of my current crop of cars, I actually prefer the feel of my C55 the best - hydraulically assisted rack and pinion. My S2000 feels decent enough on the road, but lacks a bit of weight and feel when pushing harder.
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From: Chapel Hill, NC/Montreal, QC
1995 C36 AMG, 1998 C43 AMG
The 202 doesn't even have a rack, but rather recirculating ball steering. I personally found my C43's steering to be rather vague and slow, and if you are coming from the vaunted M3, you would probably be disappointed. But, as has been discussed, perhaps a refresh of all the major steering and suspension components would help immeasurably, along with performance tires.
I recently drove a 993 for a short distance and thought its steering was quite nice and feelsome. Of my current crop of cars, I actually prefer the feel of my C55 the best - hydraulically assisted rack and pinion. My S2000 feels decent enough on the road, but lacks a bit of weight and feel when pushing harder.
I recently drove a 993 for a short distance and thought its steering was quite nice and feelsome. Of my current crop of cars, I actually prefer the feel of my C55 the best - hydraulically assisted rack and pinion. My S2000 feels decent enough on the road, but lacks a bit of weight and feel when pushing harder.
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From: America
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
This is a very interesting thread. Get so few M3 owners around here, especially one considering converting to a w202. I also find it fascinating how many of us (myself included) will openly admit that pretty much ANY M3 is going to out-gun a C36 or C43, but we all drive a 36/43 anyway.
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From: Bay Area, CA
98 C43, 15 Alfa 4C LE, 18 Tesla Model 3 DM Perf, 08 Duc S1000, 02 Duc 998, 98 Duc 748, 01 Miata
They're very different animals and I think the people here are looking for something that an M3 doesn't offer and people who drive M3's are looking for something that the W202 AMG's don't offer.
If you need to open a door that is locked, the M3 would be your computerized lock picker master key kind of thing and the AMG models would be a Benelli 12 Gauge. You'll get in the door either way, just one is more of a precision instrument and the other just tends to rely on brute force and little else.
I also think the AMG models tend to swing more towards the GT side of things and the M3 is more towards the sports car side of things. If you don't know which you want, drive both and they'll strike you in very different ways and hopefully it is obvious. My dad has an E46 M3 and I've got my C43 and I don't think either of us is interested in a trade, but we like driving each others' cars.
If you need to open a door that is locked, the M3 would be your computerized lock picker master key kind of thing and the AMG models would be a Benelli 12 Gauge. You'll get in the door either way, just one is more of a precision instrument and the other just tends to rely on brute force and little else.
I also think the AMG models tend to swing more towards the GT side of things and the M3 is more towards the sports car side of things. If you don't know which you want, drive both and they'll strike you in very different ways and hopefully it is obvious. My dad has an E46 M3 and I've got my C43 and I don't think either of us is interested in a trade, but we like driving each others' cars.
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eclectic assortment of cars
To elaborate a bit more....my recollection of driving the 993 was that the steering feel was quite nice, but I thought the wheel was a bit too thin. The car was a bit old, a MY95 if I remember right, and had about 150,00km on it, but I wouldn't turn down a chance to drive a Porsche 911 so of course I went for it! The owner is a business valuator / accountant with whom our firm does business, and a car guy, so he drove my S2000. He liked it, but the journey was only about 5 minutes. I would have liked some more time to get more used to the floor hinged pedals, the clutch especially felt weird. I need to get behind the wheel of a more modern Porsche to compare. I've driven a first generation Boxster S before though, but it's been a few years.
But back on topic, I've driven a C63, but not for long enough or hard enough to recall precisely. I'm fairly certain it also uses a hydraulic rack, same as my C55. In isolation and not pushing very hard, my S2000's steering feel is fine by all accounts, but I do prefer the C55's feel.
I think my major complaint with the 202 steering is that it's a bit too slow, and slightly isolated in feel.
But generally, the current motoring press frequently bemoans the existence of electrically assisted power steering. It seems that EPAS is used nowadays for emissions purposes, but it does feel quite artificial and light in comparison. Old school hydraulics at this stage of the game are basically quite highly evolved, so maybe give EPAS a few more years and it'll be fine. That said, I understand the NSX has EPAS but you never hear anyone complain about that car, except for a lack of power I suppose.
But back on topic, I've driven a C63, but not for long enough or hard enough to recall precisely. I'm fairly certain it also uses a hydraulic rack, same as my C55. In isolation and not pushing very hard, my S2000's steering feel is fine by all accounts, but I do prefer the C55's feel.
I think my major complaint with the 202 steering is that it's a bit too slow, and slightly isolated in feel.
But generally, the current motoring press frequently bemoans the existence of electrically assisted power steering. It seems that EPAS is used nowadays for emissions purposes, but it does feel quite artificial and light in comparison. Old school hydraulics at this stage of the game are basically quite highly evolved, so maybe give EPAS a few more years and it'll be fine. That said, I understand the NSX has EPAS but you never hear anyone complain about that car, except for a lack of power I suppose.
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From: New Zealand
C43 w/clk55 Organs
They're very different animals and I think the people here are looking for something that an M3 doesn't offer and people who drive M3's are looking for something that the W202 AMG's don't offer.
If you need to open a door that is locked, the M3 would be your computerized lock picker master key kind of thing and the AMG models would be a Benelli 12 Gauge. You'll get in the door either way, just one is more of a precision instrument and the other just tends to rely on brute force and little else.
I also think the AMG models tend to swing more towards the GT side of things and the M3 is more towards the sports car side of things. If you don't know which you want, drive both and they'll strike you in very different ways and hopefully it is obvious. My dad has an E46 M3 and I've got my C43 and I don't think either of us is interested in a trade, but we like driving each others' cars.
If you need to open a door that is locked, the M3 would be your computerized lock picker master key kind of thing and the AMG models would be a Benelli 12 Gauge. You'll get in the door either way, just one is more of a precision instrument and the other just tends to rely on brute force and little else.
I also think the AMG models tend to swing more towards the GT side of things and the M3 is more towards the sports car side of things. If you don't know which you want, drive both and they'll strike you in very different ways and hopefully it is obvious. My dad has an E46 M3 and I've got my C43 and I don't think either of us is interested in a trade, but we like driving each others' cars.
...though in my case my friend has the E46 m3 not my dad!.
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06 E350 4MATIC, 00 E55, & 01 M3
? I am a current E46 M3 owner and hill climb/TT my dad's C43. Both cars have suspension and exhaust work. In my opinion, the M3 is a way better drivers car. So much so that after racing his 43, I am now going to put a roll bar in my M3 so I can hill climb it.
The AMG is a great car, but not a better drivers car.
What year M3 or you talking about? Fwiw, my E36 M3 was even better than the E46, but I love the engine in the E46.
The AMG is a great car, but not a better drivers car.
What year M3 or you talking about? Fwiw, my E36 M3 was even better than the E46, but I love the engine in the E46.
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From: Houston
1995 C36, 1992 500E, 1968 GT 350
I have owned and driven a ton of 'all of the above'. Actually went from an E36 M3 and an E28 M5 to a C36.....the M3 was a good car even with tons of miles, but the interiors and exteriors are ****. The C36 feels much more solid and looks like a new car even at 18 years old and 166K on the clock.
