I picked up a 1997 M3 in Boston this morning and I'm on my way back to NC. A friend just bought the car and I had a free weekend and have never been to Boston or NYC, so why not. I'll give a full comparison to the C43 when I get back

 

Pic

 

Nice car, it´s a great chasis. Wish you a great weekend with alot of fun
looking forward to read about how you prefere the merc

 

Now imagine driving the sedan version with an automatic. That's a fair comparison, in which the C43 easily wins. A crucial factor often ignored when people compare w202 to e36/46.

 

+1 as a fair comparison

 

did BMW offer M3 with automatic for NA market?
i have never seen an M3 with autobox in europe
did they offer a 5 speed automatic like C43?

how many HP/Torque did this BMW 6 cylinder inline have?

 

240 hp..seen auto box here in the states,not sure about over the pond...

 

Never in the M3 as far as I am aware.

 

They did in the states. I've seen two of them.

Americans are fat and lazy, remember?

 

There have been several e36 M3, sedan/autos for sale in my area over the years. I almost purchased one before I got the c36

 

for NA-market cars did these m3's have more or less HP/TQ than c36/c43?
were they slower/faster than our cars?

in europe m3's had approx 321HP around mid/late 90's if i remember correct?
NA-market M3's must have had less HP than euro cars?

 

a fellow petrol head bought a MINT e36 M3 once. he became quite depressed when he found out just how much weaker it was than the euro version and that it was essentially going to take an engine-out-of-the-car rebuild with all new internals PLUS a totally new head, cams, valves, etc to just catch up with a euro m3. I begged him to keep it and do it anyway, but he sold it 3 months after he bought it and went back to good old American V8's

 

Nothing beats knowing theres torque whenever you need it.

Cant blame him for going back to a muscle car

 

Just got home, it's almost 11 at night, so no write up tonight.

I'm surrounded by BMW guys at work, so my mission in life is to preach the AMG gospel. That being said, while I'm not a convert yet, the E36 M3 makes a compelling argument. More to come tomorrow evening. Goodnight gentlemen (and any lurking ladies)

 

I drove the Euro E36 3.2 2 years ago. it does have a bright side I have to admit!

Euro 3.0 286ps (5.6 - 100km/h)
Euro 3.2 321ps (5.2- 100km/h)

The c36 is 5.8 to 100km/h and the c43 does this in about 5.6. So in real life it is close

Both have less torque than the C36/43 AMG. although there is a beautiful side to the e36 I have to admit. Steering rack feel is better than to the stock c36 ( haven't driven a stock c43). to me it feels more like a sports car. which is good or bad, depends on what you like. personally I prefer the more mature way of driving in the merc(torque/automatic) plus the interior is from a different level in my humble opinion. On a straight the Euro c36 is faster then the 202 amg no doubt. still I would prefer the 202 on the German autobahn! I prefer how the car feels at highspeeds.
Do I care about the E36 m3 being faster in straightline ? well since I dont own an e36 m3 nope :P For the steering feel, a lowered 202 amg gives me the right communication I need as a driver.

Transmission
5-speed automatic(3.0)
5-speed manual(3.0)
6-speed manual(3.2)
6 Speed SMG1(3.2)

Dont misunderstand me, I really think the E36 m3 is a great car. It even is fast compared to newer M products. I just rather drive a 202. gives me more of a special feel everything I drive one!

 

As I posted prior, us models 97-2001 had 240bhp 02+ 300bhp I believe.Back in 2010 I Almost purchased a 98 4dr m3 5 speed manual but went with the C43 instead.Love how the M3 handled and the 5 speed was a nice tranny,but the looks of the w202 AMG and the overall build quality and vault like integrity won me over.Also, the torque of the m113 was

 

yep, totally agree with everything here. I love a classic BMW M3/M5 from a purely sportscar standpoint, but I'm not in the market for a sports car. it's not fair to compare them to the w202 AMG. completely different type of car, but they're both shoehorned into the same segment.

but I also completely agree with the clear advantage of build quality on the C36/C43. I always assumed that the M3's were built with the same type of quality, but I have learned in recent years that I was very wrong. I've never seen an M3 with more than 200k miles, and I've only ever seen ONE e36 M3 that was in "great" condition, because it had 20k miles on it. if any BMW has actually been driven, then it is quickly becoming a ragged out junker waiting to die. There were literally 15x more m3's built than C43's but in 2014 I very rarely even see E36 m3's anymore. And the only ones I see are ready to die or are completely pampered show cars with no miles on them (and only seen ONE of those). I bought TWO high-miles C43's and they're both still in great shape, despite dumb previous owners.

 

The BMW M3, B5 Audi S4, and C43 are all sports sedans/coupes and are absolutely comparable. Some features on the C43 may be more desirable to an individual and they may choose not to cross shop, but that doesn't mean that they aren't in the same class. They all have their benefits and there drawbacks. In regards to it not being a fair comparison unless I were to drive an auto 4 door because that is how the Mercedes is spec'd, that is about as fair as saying you can't use the C43 and can only use a C280 Sport because the M3 didn't come with a V8. With that cleared up, onto my comparison, which is my personal opinion after having owned a C43 for over seven years and a weekend with an E36 M3.

As far as stats are concerned, I was driving a black, 5 Speed manual transmission coupe with 150,000 miles on it. It comes with a 3.2 liter straight 6 with 240 bhp and 240 lb-ft of torque.

Approaching the car, overall the shape is distinctly mid 90's German sedan styling. It's a bit boxy, perhaps a bit more reminiscent of the models that proceeded it than the models that were to come, but I think the styling jump was more dramatic between the W202 and W203 than it was between the E36 and the E46. The wheels are perhaps a little more modern than the AMG monoblocks but the M wheels lack a signature design. In comparison, the AMG monoblocks had been very consistent up through that point in time. The paint and exterior on this M3 were excellent for the mileage and for the sake of comparison, my C43 just rolled over 100k miles. I like both body styles and they have their similarities. I prefer the larger front grille opening on the M3 for the sake of improved cooling, but I'm not sure how to incorporate that size opening into a Mercedes Benz; it would not fit with the rest of the styling on the car. I obviously bought a C43, so while I may ever so slightly like that styling better, I really find both cars attractive.

As I moved into the interior, the first thing you notice is the infamous 'Vader seats' as they are called in the Bimmer world. They feature M stripes in the corner of the center back rest section which are slightly more subtle than the tuxedo interior in some C43's but a little more outspoken than the Blue/Black and all Black C43 interiors. The seats were incredibly comfortable over distance, dare I say better than the C43 seats. However, all of the adjustments in this particular model were manual and not power and confusing on top of that. If there was one overall description for the M3's interior, it would be 'confusing'. Pretty much every other seat in the known universe that has manual adjustment features a handle underneath the front of the seat for fore/aft adjustment. Not so on the M3, it is one of four or five handles on the side of the seat. Despite the fact that there is a temperature adjustment on the main climate control panel for both passenger and driver, I was not getting air blown on my face that was the cool 70 degrees that I had requested. After being uncomfortable for a short while, I discovered another rotary knob under the center vent that apparently adjust temperature as well. So the redundant controls add to a dash that is already far too cluttered with buttons as it is. The ergonomics and controls on the C43 are far superior to the M3. With the exception of the comfort of the seats, the M3 interior fails in almost all categories in comparison to the C43. While no one would mistake the C43 interior for an S-class, the C43's interior is definitely a league above the M3 in material selection. Where the M3 uses cheap plastic panels, the C43 features real burled walnut. Where the switches in the M3 are rectangular and cheap feeling in their action, the Mercedes switches have a nice contour and precise action to their movement. This particular M3 did not have heated seats and I am not aware of whether they were or were not an option in the US in 1997. The finish on the panels in the M3 was also not up to par in comparison to the C43. The glove box door sagged and the gap was not remotely even. The doors do not have a frame around the windows, so opening and closing the doors is usually accompanied by some rattling that feels loose in comparison to the bank vault feel of opening and closing the doors of the C43. The interior is a clear win for the C43, but the seats in the M3 were very comfortable.

When you get to the actual driving experience, this is where the divide really occurs. The M3 is clearly the better drivers car. Every input in the M3 results in immediate action, there is no slop or delay. You press the gas and you get immediate engine response. You press the brake pedal and there is an immediate build up of pressure and the brake is easily modulated. By comparison, the C43 has another layer between the driver and the vehicle that results in ever so slight delays between inputs and outputs. You press the gas pedal in the C43 and the transmission has to figure out which gear it wants and the throttle by wire has to decide whether you have been driving aggressively or more passively recently and tailor the response to your recent habits and really at the end of the day, I just want to press the gas and I want that to immediately open the throttle plate. I want to press the brake pedal and I want to be able to directly modulate the brake force with pressure and not with travel. We're not physically geared as humans to relate force to travel, on the contrary, we are geared to relate force with force. So in terms of the immediacy of input relative to output as well as being able to read feedback from the vehicle, the M3 is the clear winner here and that is part of what generates its reputation as a driver's car.

The transmission was a bit of a let down. I loved having a manual transmission, if AMG had offered one, I would have been first on the list. But for all of the raving about BMW manual transmissions, I just don't see it. Honestly, my 5 speed Honda Accord has a more precise action with shorter throws and much lower effort. Again, it wins for me over the C43 just because it is a manual, but it wasn't as good as I was expecting.

The engine was the biggest surprise for me. If you look at spec sheets, this shouldn't even be a discussion point, but it is. The S52 straight 6 is a gem. This particular model has a Dinan cold air intake and Dinan tune, but was otherwise stock. In conjunction with the stock exhaust, the intake helped give this M3 a song that was pure magic. Was it C43 V8 good? I don't think so, the V8 is the reason I wanted a C43. But it was a marvelous engine, with very good torque and a sound that reminded me of some of the post WWII cars from Aston, Jaguar, etc that had beautiful sounding straight 6's. I'm sure the C36 owners can appreciate that. The S52 combined with the manual transmission makes for a package that is on par with the C43 in terms of speed and acceleration to the point that it would likely be a driver's race, at least until the speeds hit triple digits. Magazine comparisons from that time frame conclude the same.

The suspension was also a big surprise for me. While it handled as well as a BMW is expected to, the ride quality was what shocked me, especially for a car with this mileage. Dare I say, the ride was more comfortable than the C43. I'm a bit shocked to be saying that because when Car and Driver reviewed the C43 in 1999, they commented that it was the German version of an American muscle car and about as comfortable and I took offense to that analysis. However, after driving the M3, in comparison the AMG engineers appear to have taken the approach of just throwing some high spring rates at it and some Bilstein dampers at it and calling it a day without making sure that everything worked together. The BMW felt like it had a more well thought out package in terms of matching the dampers with the springs to give excellent handling and a degree more of comfort.

At the end of the day, the result of my experience tends to coincide with what an unbiased third party would likely expect. The BMW wins in the suspension category and the driver involvement category. The C43 has the clearly superior interior and the better engine. I'm an AMG guy at heart and have always appreciated the AMG approach that every problem can be solved with just a bit more horsepower. But I also found myself wondering if their was room in my garage for an E36 M3 at the end of this trip. I really loved that car and I still love my C43. Thank goodness they aren't really women or I would be in big trouble right now.

So in conclusion, I got to see Boston and New York City for the first time and they both have their charms and their drawbacks and after spending the weekend with an M3 and living with a C43, I can also say that they both have their charms and their drawbacks. If you happen across a chance to spend some time with an E36 M3, don't hesitate to jump on it, you may just enjoy it as much as I did. Cheers to having some variety in this world

 

The M3 and the pizza in Brooklyn.

 

Great write up and insight! It would be a treat to own a black 2dr M3 5Speed to park next to the C43 in the garage.Both classic german muscle from the 90's.I have 90 mustang gt convertible that is supercharged sitting next to the benz...hmm maybe someday that will take its place...or maybe a C36.In any event you were lucky enough to enjoy the ride with a great machine!

 

I must say, your review sounds exactly like what I expected, but I'm also shocked at your comments about the gearbox and the more-comfortable-ride. That totally caught me by surprise. Great write up and thanks for taking the time!

I'd totally love an E36 M3 coupe just like that, but my original qualms remain: every single one I've seen (that wouldn't cost $20k as a very-low-miles show car) was a completely worn out P.O.S.. To find one in comparable condition to either of my C43's would cost me double or triple! Would make a FAR better track-car than any AMG, but there's not a single track of any type for hundreds of miles here

 

It's not that the gearbox was terrible, it just was not the sublime pinnacle of manual goodness that I've read about in magazines. And I don't think it was specific to this car. My dad has an E46 M3 and the driving experience between the two is INCREDIBLY similar, a lot more than I was expecting. With the exception of the E46 having an extra gear, the transmission feel was pretty similar. Obviously the power delivery is a bit different as the E46 is very peaky in comparison to the E36.

I agree on the fact that most are ragged out. My friend who bought this one combed pretty long and hard to find this exact one almost 1,000 miles away. Despite the fact that it had 150k miles, it was in excellent shape. It could use a new weather strip or two and some paintless dent removal in a few spots, but other than that, it was very solid. The previous owner was an engineer who was very meticulous with the maintenance and also owned an E46 M3 as well. They're out there, just few and far between.

Not to go off track, but there was C43 for sale near me for $2500 that had a smiley face carved into the paint on one side. Broke my heart. There are some ragged W202 AMGs out there as well unfortunately.

 

That is true, however do not discount those ragged out and neglected AMG's and M3's... My c36 was one of those... It took some work and a little money, but she is a great car now. These neglected cars out there just want a little love and they can be back to their former glory!

 

Amen. A manual trans will make a camry fun to drive

And even though it was a nice write up this is exactly what was ignored here. With an auto trans there wont be any of that instant throttle response in this thread unless wer talking about the good old 43

 

i bought TWO ragged out 43's. One set me back 4400, the other 2300. I've spent about $1k on each of them and they're already in way better, more presentable condition than 98% of all the e36 M3's I've ever seen (and a good number of E46's)