KJI3jflarryfe93

i had all my new components fitted at the same time, never used the factory springs.

why are the twin tube Koni's for C36/C43 so low in Psi compared to monotubes Koni or Billies?
is it only for body fitment purpose twintubes uses the thinner piston?

i hope Koni doesn't have leaking problems with twin tubes?!
i hope they are reliable and longlife shox?

my car is getting heavier with all my toys fitted.
power blind in the rear window, fire extinguisher etc etc

Pagz

Bilstein body is 39.6mm and Koni 41.1mm

Low gas pressure is the standard twin tube design, as the name suggests, there are two tubes hence why they weigh more. but this also means the inner tube where the piston is is smaller but only needs to house one valve, as the compression valve is located at the bottom between the inner and outer tube.

Interestingly enough, bilstein monotube is more expensive than there twin tube, I think because mono has two pistons and have mirror finish walls to seal well. but there are pro's and cons for both designs so they are not necessarily better than each other...

Koni's seem to last fine,it depends on your roads

My C43 has no options, CLK55 lite weight spare wheel and smaller size battery, maybe this is why it sits slightly higher in the rear on euro c43 springs

KJI3jflarryfe93

swedish roads are crappy like in the rest of the world, road departments don't have no cash no more to fix the potholes, they temporarily fix the gaps with sand and glue residue.

i try to avoid hitting potholes, have to watch ahead of the road to plan where to place the car if and when i see a pothole.
yet so far i have no damage to suspension or rims, thank you lord

koni's are known to do good stuff, they have been in racing for many years, they must have tested/tortured the twin tubes b4 reliesing them to make sure they are good and solid?

Pagz

Sounds like our roads here too

Yes nothing wrong with Koni I'm sure!

Here is some information on Mono and Twin tube http://www.vikingspeedshop.com/how-s...on-adjustable/

KJI3jflarryfe93

thanks for that link

twintubes are a bit inferior in build and performance quality to monotubes but not that much i guess?

mkoons

Hey Dennis,
I am going to install Vogtlands & BillySports next month. Planning on using Kmacs in front. If I use same pads as you are running with my stock 17" monoblocks do you think I will be lower than you. Deciding on which pads to use has been very frustrating. Sounds like I will need a rear adjustable camber arm. Would appreciate your advise.

KJI3jflarryfe93

hey bro

try with thinnest pads upfront #1
for rear axle try #1 or #4 depending if you use lots of cargo in trunk or drive sumo wrestlers in the backseat?

i use #1F/#4R on my car and she sits bjutiful
i think we will have the same height as we use the same springs
i never had any rubbing issues with my Brabus monoblock V

go for adjustable camber arms, your tires will thank you in the long run getting more mileage from them.

you know Kmac's squeel a lot, you need lots of greasing to keep those rubbers shut

buy only the best priced shox, koni's or billy's depending on what you find?

good luck

K-Mac

With K-MAC there is no need for arm replacement / structural alterations.


Just replacement of the main 4 front and rear bushings (extraction tools supplied). With the bonus of upgrading these bushings at the same time.


Kits provide more front adjustment than the one position slotted bolts (and it is precise, single wrench - ongoing adjustment capability on car. No disassembly each time).


Plus the advantage with the K-MAC rear kits is that unlike adjustable arms all important top of tire to outer fender clearance is retained when wanting to reduce rear wheel squat / inner edge tire wear.


Plus all K-MAC Rear kits include "extra Toe" adjustment to compensate for the new Camber facility!


The background is that since the mid ‘90 model’s, with the ever increasing speed of vehicle assembly lines there has been no front or rear Camber (or front Caster) adjustment facility fitted OEM


Only current adjustment is front and rear Toe and situations where there is still insufficient rear Toe once the issue of lack of Camber adjustment is overcome!

To attempt to return vehicle to factory specs to resolve costly premature inner edge tire wear, improve traction, and fix steering pull the only current alternative for Camber and Caster is to fit offset, slotted bolts (for the front only). But these are inaccurate - one only position bolts - offering a minimal .3 of one degree adjustment (3mm / 1/8”).

It’s no wonder many owners continually change tire brands or go from one MB Dealer or alignment shop to another trying to get it right/fix the problem!


We saw the need therefore "to fix it right the first time" by designing, developing, patenting (and re-instating from the 1990's) fully adjustable front (and rear) suspension for virtually all models.

The current K-MAC kits have up to 4 times the adjustment of these one only position offset bolts (both Positive or Negative). And unlike these one position bolts that require labour intensive jacking and disassembly each time to alter. K-MAC kits only require use of a single wrench to accurately adjust on car (under load) direct on alignment rack.


Providing “ongoing” full, precise adjustment of both Camber and Caster settings if altering suspension height, fitting wide profile tires/wheels, curb knock damage or being able to quickly fine tune/change specs on race days (extra Negative/plus track width to go deeper into the corners/lower lap times). The unique K-MAC patented design only requires use of the single wrench/no disassembly.

For the rear, similar kits are manufactured for precise Camber adjustment (with additional Toe to compensate for the new Camber facility). Importantly unlike the alternative rear adjustable Camber control arms available K-MAC kits do not move top of tire outwards - this reducing essential clearance top of tire to outer fender when adjusting to fix premature inner edge tire wear/improve rear traction.


Also instead of spherical bearings as used on control arms which prematurely pound out allowing metal to metal contact, at K-MAC we have developed long life elastomer bushings.


Bonus with the four front and four rear bushes is that they are also designed with twice the load bearing area and replace the highest wearing suspension bushings. And with K-MAC no special tools are required to fit.


Note (Product background re bushings): Majority OEM bushes have air voids to allow 2 axis movement. So control arms can travel through their required arcs without binding, locking up.


Essential with today’s modern designs of “multi-link” arms with different angle mount points!


Yet most “aftermarket” replacement bushes the industry standard is to eliminate these air voids in an attempt to improve both steering response and reduce wheel hop, loss of traction under brake and acceleration.


The opposite is often the case – the elimination of the air voids causes even more severe wheel hop, loss of traction through binding, locking up of arms.


K-MAC bushes – with 50 years now of bush technology are designed without the air voids but where needed with “full 2 axis movement”. Result is power to the ground – maximum traction/acceleration/braking - along with noticeably improved directional control and steering response for highway driving, lane changing.

K-Mac

Squeeling!! .....only if a but is not tight.
These unique design K-MAC bushings have now been in production over 20 years and have certainly proven themselves re longevity - simply fit and forget.

KJI3jflarryfe93

that's very nice if K-mac company updated their manufacturing process to make the bushings quiet
this should have been done long time ago. then i would have bought complete sets for front/rear axles

eFifty5AMG

Very interesting. The noise (or potential noise) that these make have always steered me away from installing.. Well, that, and the price

Pagz

The reason I choose not to run solid front bushes anymore is because you feel absolutely everything on the road through the chassis/steering, factory bushes are so much smoother. I would prefer to lower within maximum suggested MB axle levels and accept mild increase in wear.

eFifty5AMG

I installed the Euro springs & B8s on my 43 a few months ago, but don't like two finger gap. I really want one. Was it worth it to switch from Euros? Is it enough of a difference to justify redoing everything again?

KJI3jflarryfe93

i feel sorry you waysted money on euro springs and not being happy with the set up.
b4 i did my complete suspension swap, i measured the wheel gap, after approx 8 years of use my front had settled to 1½ finger gap with #1 pads which gave the car a very nice stance.
at rear it was still a 2 finger gap with #1 pads, a tad to high for my likings.

cornering and inspirited driving was ok but not perfect i could feel my shox were not perfect, on hard braking i had massive bodyroll.
i knew it was time for a botox tune up.
i was always thinking that i wanted to improve the suspension, having a new car feel if you catch my drift?

koni's and vogtland springs is a great set up giving my car an awesome gocart feel as i always have my shox on FULL BLAST.
it's well invested money if you want a great looking/performance ride.

ya'll driving an AMG and ya'll know these cars have stiffer suspension than regular Benz cars.
you don't want a firm ride, then you drive the wrong car!
i wonder why people always say they don't want a harsh ride, sports suspension gives you a bouncy ride coz you have wider rims/tires and the car is lowered.
if you are worrying about stiff rides, better get a Cadillac from the 60's riding soft.
this car will make you seasick with floating suspension

an AMG is a luxury muscle car, enjoy it with the best modifications you can do to your likings.

eFifty5AMG

Don't get me wrong, I love the way the car handles now compared to the truck springs I had on there before. Body roll is MUCH reduced & steering is much tighter. With the springs & shocks, I also did new upper control arms, lower control arms, idler arm spacer, & full tie rod assembly. It's truly only the visual aspect that leaves a bit to be desired.

KJI3jflarryfe93

2 finger gap is still a 2 finger gap, if you don't like it you'll never be happy with the stance.
best thing is to get used to it and don't waste more money on suspension parts.
if you still have your car, say for another 10 years, then you can renew the car with different parts.
wait till there's a discount available for Vogtland springs, then go for it

mkoons

Hey Dennis,
Thanks for your earlier reply, I think I am going with your set-up, probably will use Kmac's even thou it's additional $800 cost. You used adjustable camber bolts in front, what did you do with the back. One more favor, would you measure center of wheel to lip of fender well, pictures can be deceiving.
Thanks

Pagz

as you know only a few mm's cam make a decent change to how the car looks!

If you measure your wheel centre to guard and compare with the euro CLk55 with #1 pads at 327 Rear 326.5 Front to see the difference you will have..

Only problem if you want to stay within factory camber specs you will need to run #2 pads front /rear and front camber bolts... So heights would then be ~ 334mm rear and 333.5 front.

eFifty5AMG

Mine measured out to be 358mm front & 355mm rear. That would actually be another decent drop.

Anybody selling some Euro CLK55 springs?

K-Mac

To quote our above product background info re bushings (and reasons for undue harshness) ....


Note (Product background re bushings): Majority OEM bushes have air voids to allow 2 axis movement. So control arms can travel through their required arcs without binding, locking up.


Essential with today’s modern designs of “multi-link” arms with different angle mount points!


Yet most “aftermarket” replacement bushes the industry standard is to eliminate these air voids in an attempt to improve both steering response and reduce wheel hop, loss of traction under brake and acceleration.


The opposite is often the case – the elimination of the air voids causes even more severe wheel hop, loss of traction and ride harshness through binding, locking up of arms.


K-MAC bushes – with 50 years now of bush technology are designed without the air voids but where needed with “full 2 axis movement” so there is no binding / locking up. Result is power to the ground – maximum traction/acceleration/braking - along with noticeably improved directional control and steering response for highway driving,

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Read more: https://mbworld.org/forums/c36-amg-c...#ixzz3O1Ed02TD

KJI3jflarryfe93

you made a wise choice my brother getting vogtland and koni parts
for rear axle i bought MB Arts camber arms, they still work great with no squeeks.

i don't have my car near me, it's tucked away for winter so i can't make any measurments now, have to do it next ime i go see my car.

if you try different spring pad sizes, try first #1F/#4R if you have 18" rims with ET35, on my car there is no rubbing
otherwise you have to try with different pad size to see if you get any rub issues, people have tried with #5F/#4R it worked for them
everything depends on what you prefer?
happy hunting for parts

Pagz

That's a bit larger difference than I was expecting, let me recheck the factory specs tomorrow,I will jack the car and check axle angles again, I suspect my assumption #2 pads with euro CLK55 springs will still be too low to stay inside the factory camber/toe/caster window.



Dennis, you need to move to warmer climate must be a pain not driving her all winter

KJI3jflarryfe93

i miss that AMG ride for 7 months a year.
too much sand and salt on streets for 7 months is a massive killer for my car.
better let her sleep in.
i need to move near the equator getting sun all year round

Pagz

Dennis, that is long...least you will have a nice polish finish by summer time

eFifty5,
which spring pads are you running?

eFifty5AMG

#1s in the front & #2 in the rear.

Edit: I had the car on jack stands while replacing the tensioner, and simply lowered the vehicle then measured. After taking it down the driveway & back, I remeasured.

Front is sitting at 343mm.
Rear is sitting at 349mm.