C450 AMG
02-12-2015, 11:12 AM
#51
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I'm sorry but if you think a cla45 is "hand built" for the money it sells at you are all deluded. Any mass produced car is not ha d built. AMG is mass produced, it's not limited in numbers.
I think we're all agreed it's not full fat AMG but is part of the AMG brand, an entry level AMG that's more affordable. It's a good option for people like me who'd oike to own an AMG but can't afford a top line one like the c63.
I think we're all agreed it's not full fat AMG but is part of the AMG brand, an entry level AMG that's more affordable. It's a good option for people like me who'd oike to own an AMG but can't afford a top line one like the c63.
I suggest you start your own C450 fan club website rather than $H!T on the C63 forums here. A C450 "AMG" isn't a C63.
02-12-2015, 11:14 AM
#52
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And to be clear, Tobias Moers said in the recent AMG Driving Performance magazine that AMG will only have 4 cyclinder, 8 or 12 cylinder motors. He explicitly said, no V6.
02-12-2015, 11:16 AM
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Benyl, there precisely is the rub. It's called a Mercedes AMG,or to be more precise a Mercedes AMG Sport. It has many AMG components and MB themselves describe it as a "true AMG".
However many c63 owners are understandly miffed that MB are producing "cheap" Amgs which may dilute the brand.
However many c63 owners are understandly miffed that MB are producing "cheap" Amgs which may dilute the brand.
02-12-2015, 11:19 AM
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rediesel, I meant top line for the c series.
It's not skin off my nose whether it's an AMG or not. I'm not that shallow that I worry about badging, unlike some of my fellow AMG posters here, cough, cough
It's not skin off my nose whether it's an AMG or not. I'm not that shallow that I worry about badging, unlike some of my fellow AMG posters here, cough, cough
02-12-2015, 11:23 AM
#55
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This is the W205 C63 forum, and this off-topic discussion adds no value to this forum. It would add value to the W205 forum which is where it should be.
02-12-2015, 11:35 AM
#56
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2014 C63 AMG 507 sedan
What's all this hand-built rubbish. Come on, it's not some master craftsman building you a unique engine, like number 123 of 10000. All MB engines including AMG will be made on a production line. It's probably one bloke at the very end of the production process doing the inspection putting his name to it.
And Peter, I didn't create this thread. As I've said a lot of people will be coming onto the AMG forums to talk about the c450.
And Peter, I didn't create this thread. As I've said a lot of people will be coming onto the AMG forums to talk about the c450.
What makes an AMG is the hand built engine by One Master Builder. He signs his name on a plaque and puts it on the engine to certify the craftsmanship of the build. Each engine is unique.
All the AMG badging on the trunk, fenders, hood, brakes, etc. in the world means nothing unless you have the engine plaque. Anyone with an ebay account can put an AMG badge on a Ford Focus, but it doesn't make it so.
02-12-2015, 11:37 AM
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So what do you wish to accomplish with this ongoing "discussion" that is going nowhere?
02-12-2015, 11:46 AM
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Clearly, right here: http://www.mercedes-amg.com/latest.p...=20150112_c450
Mercedes-Benz C450 AMG sport.
02-12-2015, 12:00 PM
#59
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I'm sorry but if you think a cla45 is "hand built" for the money it sells at you are all deluded. Any mass produced car is not ha d built. AMG is mass produced, it's not limited in numbers.
I think we're all agreed it's not full fat AMG but is part of the AMG brand, an entry level AMG that's more affordable. It's a good option for people like me who'd oike to own an AMG but can't afford a top line one like the c63.
I think we're all agreed it's not full fat AMG but is part of the AMG brand, an entry level AMG that's more affordable. It's a good option for people like me who'd oike to own an AMG but can't afford a top line one like the c63.
02-12-2015, 12:12 PM
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
A lot people would like Rolex to release a cheap digital watch so they can afford one...but they don't. Something stops being an aspirational goal when they lower the hurdle. Why work harder to get what you want if they're going to give it to you (relatively speaking). It's like if they decided to just start letting everyone that graduates college call themselves "Doctor." Sure you just graduated a lot of doctors...but you also made the term "doctor" worthless.
well put.
02-12-2015, 12:15 PM
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To the credit of naysayers... benz and amg are very confusing in their use of terminology, at times using Mercedes-AMG and other times Mercedes Benz, and other times AMG and other times AMG sports model....
The consistently seem to identify it as "AMG sports model line"
So in the world of AMG:
1) there is an AMG -- i.e. C63/S, E63/S, S63 yada yada
2) AMG sports models: C450 AMG 4-matic Sports Model, GLE450 AMG 4-matic Sports Model
3) Posers with neither 1) or 2) that put fake badges on their non-AMG-anything benz's
The consistently seem to identify it as "AMG sports model line"
So in the world of AMG:
1) there is an AMG -- i.e. C63/S, E63/S, S63 yada yada
2) AMG sports models: C450 AMG 4-matic Sports Model, GLE450 AMG 4-matic Sports Model
3) Posers with neither 1) or 2) that put fake badges on their non-AMG-anything benz's
Last edited by PeterUbers; 02-12-2015 at 12:18 PM.
02-12-2015, 12:22 PM
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A lot people would like Rolex to release a cheap digital watch so they can afford one...but they don't. Something stops being an aspirational goal when they lower the hurdle. Why work harder to get what you want if they're going to give it to you (relatively speaking). It's like if they decided to just start letting everyone that graduates college call themselves "Doctor." Sure you just graduated a lot of doctors...but you also made the term "doctor" worthless.
02-12-2015, 12:27 PM
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Many brands have done what benz, audi, bmw .. is doing and usually it's a very lucrative move for the company, but the marque does suffer in its exclusivity
02-12-2015, 12:37 PM
#64
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Here is an idea, Since your car is NOT an AMG why don't you stop posting in this forum and go post down in the C400 non-AMG section where you belong. You stay out of here and I will stay out of there, deal?
02-12-2015, 12:37 PM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
A lot people would like Rolex to release a cheap digital watch so they can afford one...but they don't. Something stops being an aspirational goal when they lower the hurdle. Why work harder to get what you want if they're going to give it to you (relatively speaking). It's like if they decided to just start letting everyone that graduates college call themselves "Doctor." Sure you just graduated a lot of doctors...but you also made the term "doctor" worthless.
02-12-2015, 01:27 PM
#66
Super Member
What's all this hand-built rubbish. Come on, it's not some master craftsman building you a unique engine, like number 123 of 10000. All MB engines including AMG will be made on a production line. It's probably one bloke at the very end of the production process doing the inspection putting his name to it.
And Peter, I didn't create this thread. As I've said a lot of people will be coming onto the AMG forums to talk about the c450.
And Peter, I didn't create this thread. As I've said a lot of people will be coming onto the AMG forums to talk about the c450.
This is so dumb, it hurts.
02-12-2015, 01:28 PM
#67
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This thread gets way too much attention because we have no C63 related news to talk about. I hope that the MSRP for the Edition 1 I have on order will be out next week.
02-12-2015, 01:48 PM
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No hard feelings guys! I'm playing devils advocate really and I honestly don't care where the c450 sits in MB/AMG's lineup. I'd like to move up from my ford to a c450. Given petrol (gas) prices in the uk, you've practically got to be a millionaire to run something like a c63 unless you're a real enthusiast and happy to make other sacrifices.
I guess MB have made a rod for their own back. They've created a highly desirable car for the masses with AMG 'bits' that sort of hints of being AMG without it being officially listed as an AMG model. Then MB confound the issue by releasing press statements that say things like the c450 is true AMG. Maybe provactive and confusing to the average car buyer at the same time.
Final thought, I don't think its quite the same as say the bmw335i MSPORT as the MSPORT is just body trim. The c450 has AMG bits which is why it's harder to place.
I guess MB have made a rod for their own back. They've created a highly desirable car for the masses with AMG 'bits' that sort of hints of being AMG without it being officially listed as an AMG model. Then MB confound the issue by releasing press statements that say things like the c450 is true AMG. Maybe provactive and confusing to the average car buyer at the same time.
Final thought, I don't think its quite the same as say the bmw335i MSPORT as the MSPORT is just body trim. The c450 has AMG bits which is why it's harder to place.
02-12-2015, 02:16 PM
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No hard feelings guys! I'm playing devils advocate really and I honestly don't care where the c450 sits in MB/AMG's lineup. I'd like to move up from my ford to a c450. Given petrol (gas) prices in the uk, you've practically got to be a millionaire to run something like a c63 unless you're a real enthusiast and happy to make other sacrifices.
I guess MB have made a rod for their own back. They've created a highly desirable car for the masses with AMG 'bits' that sort of hints of being AMG without it being officially listed as an AMG model. Then MB confound the issue by releasing press statements that say things like the c450 is true AMG. Maybe provactive and confusing to the average car buyer at the same time.
Final thought, I don't think its quite the same as say the bmw335i MSPORT as the MSPORT is just body trim. The c450 has AMG bits which is why it's harder to place.
I guess MB have made a rod for their own back. They've created a highly desirable car for the masses with AMG 'bits' that sort of hints of being AMG without it being officially listed as an AMG model. Then MB confound the issue by releasing press statements that say things like the c450 is true AMG. Maybe provactive and confusing to the average car buyer at the same time.
Final thought, I don't think its quite the same as say the bmw335i MSPORT as the MSPORT is just body trim. The c450 has AMG bits which is why it's harder to place.
02-12-2015, 02:48 PM
#70
Super Member
No hard feelings guys! I'm playing devils advocate really and I honestly don't care where the c450 sits in MB/AMG's lineup. I'd like to move up from my ford to a c450. Given petrol (gas) prices in the uk, you've practically got to be a millionaire to run something like a c63 unless you're a real enthusiast and happy to make other sacrifices.
I guess MB have made a rod for their own back. They've created a highly desirable car for the masses with AMG 'bits' that sort of hints of being AMG without it being officially listed as an AMG model. Then MB confound the issue by releasing press statements that say things like the c450 is true AMG. Maybe provactive and confusing to the average car buyer at the same time.
Final thought, I don't think its quite the same as say the bmw335i MSPORT as the MSPORT is just body trim. The c450 has AMG bits which is why it's harder to place.
I guess MB have made a rod for their own back. They've created a highly desirable car for the masses with AMG 'bits' that sort of hints of being AMG without it being officially listed as an AMG model. Then MB confound the issue by releasing press statements that say things like the c450 is true AMG. Maybe provactive and confusing to the average car buyer at the same time.
Final thought, I don't think its quite the same as say the bmw335i MSPORT as the MSPORT is just body trim. The c450 has AMG bits which is why it's harder to place.
Check out the new Ford Focus RS, or do you already have an RS badge on yours?
02-12-2015, 03:24 PM
#71
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm sorry but if you think a cla45 is "hand built" for the money it sells at you are all deluded. Any mass produced car is not ha d built. AMG is mass produced, it's not limited in numbers.
I think we're all agreed it's not full fat AMG but is part of the AMG brand, an entry level AMG that's more affordable. It's a good option for people like me who'd oike to own an AMG but can't afford a top line one like the c63.
I think we're all agreed it's not full fat AMG but is part of the AMG brand, an entry level AMG that's more affordable. It's a good option for people like me who'd oike to own an AMG but can't afford a top line one like the c63.
Regards,
Joe
02-12-2015, 04:15 PM
#72
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As stated by others, the engines are built all the way through by one Tech, and this includes the 2.0 for the CLA45. I was at the factory and confirmed this to be the case. I even inquired about an engine that was partially complete, with a cover over it. It was sitting off to the side of the line. The reason is that the Tech that started it was out and it waits for his return. If an engine is started by one individual, it's finshed by the same. If it can't be, it's torn apart. These are facts, not assumptions.
Regards,
Joe
Regards,
Joe
The modern components are manufactured to precise dimensions. Whether the technicians assemble the engines on a production line, or individually, I really do not see the difference.
Yes, the efficiency is probably greater (and costs less) in building the engines on a production line, but I suspect not by very much. Same goes for any steps that may be automated.
The technicians will be checking specs during specific breakpoints as they assemble the engines, and the same would happen in a production line too.
I believe it is a brilliant marketing tool.
This is precision engineering, not painting or sculpting that should get people all excited about the hand-built nature of the engine IMHO.
02-12-2015, 09:29 PM
#73
Super Member
Agree... but trueblue_ips really missed the point though. While each AMG engine is assembled by one individual, I do believe it is a nothing more than a gimmick (don't shoot me just yet).
The modern components are manufactured to precise dimensions. Whether the technicians assemble the engines on a production line, or individually, I really do not see the difference.
Yes, the efficiency is probably greater (and costs less) in building the engines on a production line, but I suspect not by very much. Same goes for any steps that may be automated.
The technicians will be checking specs during specific breakpoints as they assemble the engines, and the same would happen in a production line too.
I believe it is a brilliant marketing tool.
This is precision engineering, not painting or sculpting that should get people all excited about the hand-built nature of the engine IMHO.
The modern components are manufactured to precise dimensions. Whether the technicians assemble the engines on a production line, or individually, I really do not see the difference.
Yes, the efficiency is probably greater (and costs less) in building the engines on a production line, but I suspect not by very much. Same goes for any steps that may be automated.
The technicians will be checking specs during specific breakpoints as they assemble the engines, and the same would happen in a production line too.
I believe it is a brilliant marketing tool.
This is precision engineering, not painting or sculpting that should get people all excited about the hand-built nature of the engine IMHO.
You believe this is "nothing more than a gimmick"? Obviously you don't see the inherent superiority and precision of one sculptor vs. many. I don't have the time or energy to explain it either. Everyone can have an opinion, so I don't fret that. But, please, use some restraint when you post uniformed dribble on an enthusiasts forum.
02-12-2015, 09:38 PM
#74
Super Member
No hard feelings guys! I'm playing devils advocate really and I honestly don't care where the c450 sits in MB/AMG's lineup. I'd like to move up from my ford to a c450. Given petrol (gas) prices in the uk, you've practically got to be a millionaire to run something like a c63 unless you're a real enthusiast and happy to make other sacrifices.
I guess MB have made a rod for their own back. They've created a highly desirable car for the masses with AMG 'bits' that sort of hints of being AMG without it being officially listed as an AMG model. Then MB confound the issue by releasing press statements that say things like the c450 is true AMG. Maybe provactive and confusing to the average car buyer at the same time.
Final thought, I don't think its quite the same as say the bmw335i MSPORT as the MSPORT is just body trim. The c450 has AMG bits which is why it's harder to place.
I guess MB have made a rod for their own back. They've created a highly desirable car for the masses with AMG 'bits' that sort of hints of being AMG without it being officially listed as an AMG model. Then MB confound the issue by releasing press statements that say things like the c450 is true AMG. Maybe provactive and confusing to the average car buyer at the same time.
Final thought, I don't think its quite the same as say the bmw335i MSPORT as the MSPORT is just body trim. The c450 has AMG bits which is why it's harder to place.
