C450 AMG
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'20 GLC300 SUV
Bespoke is a term that fits perfectly with the concept of custom-built engines.
Last edited by zibby43; Feb 14, 2015 at 10:58 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 583
Likes: 23
From: Colorado
2021 E63 S Sedan
I don't know why you're getting so bent out of shape. I'm just trying to have a discussion. You can disagree without getting nasty. I didn't last 1,704 posts here by being a jerk, especially to new members that have been around less than a month and have less than 30 posts.
Bespoke is a term that fits perfectly with the concept of custom-built engines.
Bespoke is a term that fits perfectly with the concept of custom-built engines.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 55
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2012 GL550
I don't know why you're getting so bent out of shape. I'm just trying to have a discussion. You can disagree without getting nasty. I didn't last 1,704 posts here by being a jerk, especially to new members that have been around less than a month and have less than 30 posts.
Bespoke is a term that fits perfectly with the concept of custom-built engines.
Bespoke is a term that fits perfectly with the concept of custom-built engines.
Lastly, let me clarify the concept of bespoke. If you order your car with your own choice of colour and options, then that car is certainly bespoke. But if the engine in that car is the same as every other C63, then you certainly cannot call that engine bespoke. Now if there were some spec items of that engine that could be tailored to your order, then you can call that a bespoke engine.
AMG engines are hand-made but not bespoke.
I would hope what one says carries more weight than how many posts one has accumulated.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 55
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2012 GL550
Zibby....just leave what_the_deuce and trueblue_ips alone. They are trolling and have been openly criticized for their lack of AMG knowledge, as well as their "think they know-it-all" attitudes on not only this forum, but the mercedescla forums and the AMG PL forums for several days now. These two have grade school level knowledge of these cars and trying to educate them is proving fruitless. It's not their substantial lack of factual information that is the problem, it's their persistent argument using misinformation and disrespecting those of us that are trying to teach them what separates AMG's from non-AMG's. Imagine that....newbies trying to tell avid, career AMG owner's that they know better.....
Keep your blinkers on mate.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 852
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From: Rural NoVA
'14 E63S, '13 G550, '06 E320 cdi, and a bunch of other stuff.
When one finds themselves at the bottom of a hole, armed only with a shovel, it is generally best to simply stop digging.
You sir, are in a very deep one, and your shoveling skills appear to be exemplary.
Clearly you possess no knowledge or even basic understanding of cars, the marketing of cars, the manufacturing of cars, owner loyalty, and (on topic) AMG. If talking out one's **** was art, you would be Picasso.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 583
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From: Colorado
2021 E63 S Sedan
NOT open minded. If you were, you would have understood by now that the reason you are blasted on every AMG enthusiast forum is because you don't listen to the feedback, or see the corruption of your information/thinking.
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Member
Joined: Jul 2014
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CLA45 AMG
Of course marketing is always a part of any sales. If engine being hand made is a "marketing BS", what else is not a "marketing BS"? I'd like to know about it.
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Joined: Jan 2015
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Ford Focus
dtc100, I'm not disputing the value, or more to the point the prestige, of a hand built engine. What I'm disputing is that an MB AMG one is hand built.
It's a cheap gimmick. Lovely though an AMG is, especially the c450, it's not super car terroritory where you pay several hundred thousand $.
It's a cheap gimmick. Lovely though an AMG is, especially the c450, it's not super car terroritory where you pay several hundred thousand $.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 852
Likes: 5
From: Rural NoVA
'14 E63S, '13 G550, '06 E320 cdi, and a bunch of other stuff.
dtc100, I'm not disputing the value, or more to the point the prestige, of a hand built engine. What I'm disputing is that an MB AMG one is hand built.
It's a cheap gimmick. Lovely though an AMG is, especially the c450, it's not super car terroritory where you pay several hundred thousand $.
It's a cheap gimmick. Lovely though an AMG is, especially the c450, it's not super car terroritory where you pay several hundred thousand $.
Do you even bother to read what you're writing? It's pure gibberish.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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'20 GLC300 SUV
I didn't mean to come across as nasty but if you try and go through my posts on this topic then you may notice that my bottom line had been that people should learn to look past the marketing BS. But clearly people seem to care more about the "one man one engine" more than what the engine actually delivers.
Lastly, let me clarify the concept of bespoke. If you order your car with your own choice of colour and options, then that car is certainly bespoke. But if the engine in that car is the same as every other C63, then you certainly cannot call that engine bespoke. Now if there were some spec items of that engine that could be tailored to your order, then you can call that a bespoke engine.
AMG engines are hand-made but not bespoke.
I would hope what one says carries more weight than how many posts one has accumulated.
Lastly, let me clarify the concept of bespoke. If you order your car with your own choice of colour and options, then that car is certainly bespoke. But if the engine in that car is the same as every other C63, then you certainly cannot call that engine bespoke. Now if there were some spec items of that engine that could be tailored to your order, then you can call that a bespoke engine.
AMG engines are hand-made but not bespoke.
I would hope what one says carries more weight than how many posts one has accumulated.
However, I was using it in a broader sense, considering that the AMG motors are built/assembled by hand in an industry in which virtually all other motors are made on an assembly line (including the S55 in the new M3/M4).
Even if we were to operate entirely within the bounds of your definition, the vast majority of AMG cars are ordered by customers (including mine). In this country's smaller markets, the only way to acquire an AMG car is by placing a "custom" order through the dealer.
In my case, my car, along with the the motor, is "bespoke" or custom-made to/for me because I chose the configuration.
Secondly, caring about the "one man, one engine" motto and appreciating what these cars can truly do are not mutually exclusive. I track this car. I modify it. I didn't just buy it because of that motto. That said, I still acknowledge that is nice to have something a bit more unique in an era of mass-produced everything.
Also, I agree that the content a member provides to the community is the best way to evaluate the member's worth to the forum.
It's just that I am a moderator on another forum (a much larger forum) and 99% of the time, those with lower post counts (but high "post rates" early on) are much more likely to break the forum rules/act as trolls. Someone that has been around 7 years doesn't suddenly turn into a "troll." Not saying that you are, just explaining why I always consider length of membership/post count. These factors are the grains of salt I take with that "new" member's posts.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,829
Likes: 95
'20 GLC300 SUV
Zibby....just leave what_the_deuce and trueblue_ips alone. They are trolling and have been openly criticized for their lack of AMG knowledge, as well as their "think they know-it-all" attitudes on not only this forum, but the mercedescla forums and the AMG PL forums for several days now. These two have grade school level knowledge of these cars and trying to educate them is proving fruitless. It's not their substantial lack of factual information that is the problem, it's their persistent argument using misinformation and disrespecting those of us that are trying to teach them what separates AMG's from non-AMG's. Imagine that....newbies trying to tell avid, career AMG owner's that they know better.....
I completely agree that it is annoying to see non-AMG owners trying to "educate" those of us that have owned, driven, and tracked these cars for years.
When I was in the position to buy my first AMG, I kept my mouth shut and read far more than I posted. What the hell did I have to offer when I didn't even own an AMG in the first place? I guess I could've proved that I could read whatever I found on the internet haha.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 55
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2012 GL550
IMO the reason they do one man one engine is because AMGs are relatively low production (compared to the rest of the mbz range) so it does not make sense to invest in a new production line for them. and since it brings an extra layer of craftsmanship feel and marketing its a good business decision to have this feature for true AMG cars.
But people seem to think the hand-built nature of it somehow makes the engine superior. And if you try and point out that it is superior only in the most superficial sense, then that's blasphemy.
And because I haven't bought the AMG yet then I must be intellectually inferior on issues of commonsense. Jeez!
Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 147
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CLA45 AMG
dtc100, I'm not disputing the value, or more to the point the prestige, of a hand built engine. What I'm disputing is that an MB AMG one is hand built.
It's a cheap gimmick. Lovely though an AMG is, especially the c450, it's not super car terroritory where you pay several hundred thousand $.
It's a cheap gimmick. Lovely though an AMG is, especially the c450, it's not super car terroritory where you pay several hundred thousand $.
In modern days the term hand built or hand made are often universally associated with value.
What satisfy you that an engine is hand built? Does the engine builder have to start by collecting a pile of rocks, bake them in the oven, extract metals, and go from there?
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
2012 GL550
I 100% agree regarding your interpretation of bespoke.
However, I was using it in a broader sense, considering that the AMG motors are built/assembled by hand in an industry in which virtually all other motors are made on an assembly line (including the S55 in the new M3/M4).
Even if we were to operate entirely within the bounds of your definition, the vast majority of AMG cars are ordered by customers (including mine). In this country's smaller markets, the only way to acquire an AMG car is by placing a "custom" order through the dealer.
In my case, my car, along with the the motor, is "bespoke" or custom-made to/for me because I chose the configuration.
Secondly, caring about the "one man, one engine" motto and appreciating what these cars can truly do are not mutually exclusive. I track this car. I modify it. I didn't just buy it because of that motto. That said, I still acknowledge that is nice to have something a bit more unique in an era of mass-produced everything.
Also, I agree that the content a member provides to the community is the best way to evaluate the member's worth to the forum.
It's just that I am a moderator on another forum (a much larger forum) and 99% of the time, those with lower post counts (but high "post rates" early on) are much more likely to break the forum rules/act as trolls. Someone that has been around 7 years doesn't suddenly turn into a "troll." Not saying that you are, just explaining why I always consider length of membership/post count. These factors are the grains of salt I take with that "new" member's posts.
However, I was using it in a broader sense, considering that the AMG motors are built/assembled by hand in an industry in which virtually all other motors are made on an assembly line (including the S55 in the new M3/M4).
Even if we were to operate entirely within the bounds of your definition, the vast majority of AMG cars are ordered by customers (including mine). In this country's smaller markets, the only way to acquire an AMG car is by placing a "custom" order through the dealer.
In my case, my car, along with the the motor, is "bespoke" or custom-made to/for me because I chose the configuration.
Secondly, caring about the "one man, one engine" motto and appreciating what these cars can truly do are not mutually exclusive. I track this car. I modify it. I didn't just buy it because of that motto. That said, I still acknowledge that is nice to have something a bit more unique in an era of mass-produced everything.
Also, I agree that the content a member provides to the community is the best way to evaluate the member's worth to the forum.
It's just that I am a moderator on another forum (a much larger forum) and 99% of the time, those with lower post counts (but high "post rates" early on) are much more likely to break the forum rules/act as trolls. Someone that has been around 7 years doesn't suddenly turn into a "troll." Not saying that you are, just explaining why I always consider length of membership/post count. These factors are the grains of salt I take with that "new" member's posts.
And I also agree on the uniqueness the hand built engine affords to the AMG line up. I did not dispute that. I only stated that it is a marketing master stroke. Pure and simple. Do not make it out to be something it is not.
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 154
Likes: 1
From: DC
Range Rover Sport Supercharged - Porsche Caymen S - Motorcycles
Me, and I believe most will agree with you that hand build has a marketing spin, but I disagree that it’s superficial. Let me ask you a question.... will you trust a robot to operate on yourself or a loved one, or you'll find a specialist surgeon who did the same surgery hundred of times before?
For me hand build means that the product is unique, build by an expert who does the same thing over and over again, and he/she are accountable for what they do. Cars from F1 to Aston Martin are hand build, luxury watches, NASA rockets and space shuttles, even my Ducati has a yellow mark indicate that it was checked by a human.
I believe that MB commitment for hand build AMG engines is significant, and they are doing for the right reason. So why no to using it as a marketing tool?
For the past 25 years I work for some of the world largest advertising agencies, on accounts such as Ford, IBM, Nissan, Coca Cola and others. I know how to recognize marketing spin when its not backed up. In this case it is.
Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 99
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Ford Focus
Dtc100, that's my point entirely. What does hand built mean? It doesnt really mean anything. This is not one master craftsman creating something that is unique. all of the engine parts will be made by machine. It's just a cheap marketing ploy used by MB to mimick more expensive brands like RR.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
2012 GL550
Me, and I believe most will agree with you that hand build has a marketing spin, but I disagree that it’s superficial. Let me ask you a question.... will you trust a robot to operate on yourself or a loved one, or you'll find a specialist surgeon who did the same surgery hundred of times before?
For me hand build means that the product is unique, build by an expert who does the same thing over and over again, and he/she are accountable for what they do. Cars from F1 to Aston Martin are hand build, luxury watches, NASA rockets and space shuttles, even my Ducati has a yellow mark indicate that it was checked by a human.
I believe that MB commitment for hand build AMG engines is significant, and they are doing for the right reason. So why no to using it as a marketing tool?
For the past 25 years I work for some of the world largest advertising agencies, on accounts such as Ford, IBM, Nissan, Coca Cola and others. I know how to recognize marketing spin when its not backed up. In this case it is.
I've already explained before why accountability of the builder is irrelevant. So, please explain to me how precision engineered components can be assembled in a unique way?
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 583
Likes: 23
From: Colorado
2021 E63 S Sedan
I had no idea that they were suddenly active on those other forums as well. I wonder how the hell they got into the PL. As a mod, that's a big-time red flag.
I completely agree that it is annoying to see non-AMG owners trying to "educate" those of us that have owned, driven, and tracked these cars for years.
When I was in the position to buy my first AMG, I kept my mouth shut and read far more than I posted. What the hell did I have to offer when I didn't even own an AMG in the first place? I guess I could've proved that I could read whatever I found on the internet haha.
I completely agree that it is annoying to see non-AMG owners trying to "educate" those of us that have owned, driven, and tracked these cars for years.
When I was in the position to buy my first AMG, I kept my mouth shut and read far more than I posted. What the hell did I have to offer when I didn't even own an AMG in the first place? I guess I could've proved that I could read whatever I found on the internet haha.
