IS-F Videos
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1988 535i 5 speed
I couldn't agree more about the status of the tuner market for Lexus (today).
Personally, I think this is a simple function of supply and demand. Today, there is little demand. Most Lexus owners aren't car tuning/driving enthusiasts. The ones that are enthusiasts probably have another non-Lexus car that they use for tuning/racing with.
Having spent some time (at least trolling) on the forums for Lexus, Audi, and Merc, there simply isn't the same enthusiast base for the Japanese mark. I think a lot of this has to do with the models available - Lexus has never really had a 'high-performance' model before. I think it is the high-performance models that stir more emotion and enthusiasm in the buyers. By their nature, buyers of high performance cars are going to be receptive to upgrades – “Higher performance at a small incremental cost… Sign me up!!” After all, they’ve already proven willing to shell out substantially more money for performance in buying the car in the first place.
I think that if you were to look at the ratio of stock vs modded non-AMG-Mercs or non-M-Bimmers, the ratio would be much higher (more stock cars) than for the AMG/M versions (more modded cars). Taking this further, I would guess that this ratio would be even higher on those models that don't have an AMG/M variant. I think these high performance cars help to establish the aftermarket for the entire brands and specifically the platforms on which the high-performance models are based. These cars are necessary for the tuners to be interested in the brands, same as the enthusiasts.
These high performance versions of the cars also cause potential buyers to look at the lesser models differently. Instead of viewing the lesser models as mere ‘luxury compact sedans’, they are now look at them as the ‘kid brother’ to the high performance version. At that point, they begin to wonder how to close the gap with the help of the aftermarket tuners.
Wah La… Aftermarket!
I think we’ll begin to see more aftermarket tuners developing products for Lexus after the release of the IS-F, GS-F, and whatever other high performance variants come down the line. The IS-F, regardless of its current capability to de-throne, or even run with, its German rivals, will inspire its owners to begin to tweak it and probably serve as a catalyst for the fledgling Lexus aftermarket.
Personally, I think this is a simple function of supply and demand. Today, there is little demand. Most Lexus owners aren't car tuning/driving enthusiasts. The ones that are enthusiasts probably have another non-Lexus car that they use for tuning/racing with.
Having spent some time (at least trolling) on the forums for Lexus, Audi, and Merc, there simply isn't the same enthusiast base for the Japanese mark. I think a lot of this has to do with the models available - Lexus has never really had a 'high-performance' model before. I think it is the high-performance models that stir more emotion and enthusiasm in the buyers. By their nature, buyers of high performance cars are going to be receptive to upgrades – “Higher performance at a small incremental cost… Sign me up!!” After all, they’ve already proven willing to shell out substantially more money for performance in buying the car in the first place.
I think that if you were to look at the ratio of stock vs modded non-AMG-Mercs or non-M-Bimmers, the ratio would be much higher (more stock cars) than for the AMG/M versions (more modded cars). Taking this further, I would guess that this ratio would be even higher on those models that don't have an AMG/M variant. I think these high performance cars help to establish the aftermarket for the entire brands and specifically the platforms on which the high-performance models are based. These cars are necessary for the tuners to be interested in the brands, same as the enthusiasts.
These high performance versions of the cars also cause potential buyers to look at the lesser models differently. Instead of viewing the lesser models as mere ‘luxury compact sedans’, they are now look at them as the ‘kid brother’ to the high performance version. At that point, they begin to wonder how to close the gap with the help of the aftermarket tuners.
Wah La… Aftermarket!
I think we’ll begin to see more aftermarket tuners developing products for Lexus after the release of the IS-F, GS-F, and whatever other high performance variants come down the line. The IS-F, regardless of its current capability to de-throne, or even run with, its German rivals, will inspire its owners to begin to tweak it and probably serve as a catalyst for the fledgling Lexus aftermarket.
. Btw, isn't it ironic that the C-class has the lowest power in its class for now, but the 63 has the highest?
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From: Bloomfield Hills, MI
W203, W211, W219, W212
Originally Posted by Amiricanmade
Sorry but C class has no "status".....there will be a crap load of c350s that have the same body kit. most people will think the c63 is just another C class.
Originally Posted by Amiricanmade
I don't understand how anyone can pay 70k+ for a crappy interior....
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2005 Ford Mustang GT
Sorry but C class has no "status".....there will be a crap load of c350s that have the same body kit. most people will think the c63 is just another C class. Performance for the BMW? the thing is a fat girl! It's slowww....no low end power, it's a Honda with a BMW badge. I will admit that the C class will beat the M3, RS4, IS-F in a straight line race....but thats not all that matters. I am debating if i'm going to get the C or the M, at this point the crappy cheap interior of the C makes me wana puke. I don't understand how anyone can pay 70k+ for a crappy interior....I would take the IS-F if i was on a budget. If you put a good 4-5k into the IS it will burn a stock C63.
The funniest thing to me is for someone to assume that Jap car makers know a damn thing about building V8s. The reason a car like the IS-F or any Jap car for that matter that tries to put a V8 in their cars can't compete is that they know jack sh*t and have basically no history in developing V8s. Now you might be able to compete with the low-torque weak V8 of the BMW M3 (another model that has no history of V8s), but there is no way in hell you're going to compete with a 6.2 liter AMG designed brand new V8. $4-5K ain't going to do sh*t to a crappy Jap designed 5.0 liter V8. That same $4-$5K in a 6.2 liter AMG V8 would destroy that car any day of the week. As it relates to the status question. you will unquestionably get more status with the Mercedes anyway (C Class or not), simply because it is a Mercedes, than you would would with a modified version of a Japanese rice boy racer sedan. When I look at the IS-F, all I see is an evolved version of years of hideous purple or neon green painted rice rockets I've seen on the street with ugly ground effects, fart-can exhausts you could stick your head into, and Type R stickers. There is really nothing that can change that picture in my head.
Last edited by C63AMG2B; Oct 6, 2007 at 04:07 PM.
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From: Maine
Not an AMG :(
I personally couldn't care less what other people 'think' I drive. In fact, it makes it more fun when somebody 'thinks' you driving 'just another C-class'! Besides, I would go out on a limb and say that most drivers don't know the first thing about 'AMG' anyway.
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From: Toronto, Canada
540 6spd
I don't know about this car. http://youtube.com/watch?v=WGTVOT2R3xg
It looks like it has an oversteer problem... Could be dangerous out on the street.. old school 911 stories all over again.
It looks like it has an oversteer problem... Could be dangerous out on the street.. old school 911 stories all over again.
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CLS55 AMG
Lol, I had to laugh when I read this. The first thing I thought when I saw the interior of the IS-F was how butt ugly it looked. It looks like typical Jap garbage, and I would think it belongs in a Camry or Accord if you hadn't told me it was a Lexus.
The funniest thing to me is for someone to assume that Jap car makers know a damn thing about building V8s. The reason a car like the IS-F or any Jap car for that matter that tries to put a V8 in their cars can't compete is that they know jack sh*t and have basically no history in developing V8s.
The funniest thing to me is for someone to assume that Jap car makers know a damn thing about building V8s. The reason a car like the IS-F or any Jap car for that matter that tries to put a V8 in their cars can't compete is that they know jack sh*t and have basically no history in developing V8s.
And Lexus isn't the only one. Nissan/Infiniti have fine V8s in their cars as well...and Honda is universally acknowledged as one of the finest engine manufacturers in the world (though they didn't start doing V8s until recently, I'm sure they'll do just fine given past history), so I'm not sure where this is coming from...
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From: Las Vegas
'11 997.2 Carrera GTS
Lexus won't win the performance battle, but they will still sell every last one of the F series cars. I know a lot of people that left the benz and bimmer camp for lexus and will never buy anything but a lexus from now on. Not everyone that has a high performance car drives it like it should and if they don't need to have the latest magazine test winner and value reliability they won't hesitate to buy the lexus.
I also find it funny that the biggest basher in this thread drives a ford mustang.
I also find it funny that the biggest basher in this thread drives a ford mustang.
Last edited by hakaida442; Oct 6, 2007 at 11:25 PM.
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LET C32 2002
Lexus won't win the performance battle, but they will still sell every last one of the F series cars. I know a lot of people that left the benz and bimmer camp for lexus and will never buy anything but a lexus from now on. Not everyone that has a high performance car drives it like it should and if they don't need to have the latest magazine test winner and value reliability they won't hesitate to buy the lexus.
I also find it funny that the biggest basher in this thread drives a ford mustang.
I also find it funny that the biggest basher in this thread drives a ford mustang.
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LET C32 2002
I definetly would look at what the IS-F brings to the table. Its a sure thing they fully loaded with more advanced feature will still be 10-15k less then a fully loaded C63,M3 or RS4. While we are young the reliability factor matters less but as we age we tend to care more of reliability thus a Lexus would be right up our alley. In example I had a 01 IS300 used with about 21k miles and all thru the 3-4 years of ownership treating it like a race car it never failed me so naturally when I decided to either mod it or upgrade to the IS350 it was easy cause I wanted the warranty and a new car....I had a stroke and sold it and since couldn't wait to buy this time a used one I found the C32 and M3 as suitable replacement. But in a year of ownership it has been in the shop over 6 times for common issues at $100 deductible while my Lexus never was in any shop for anything other then a typical oil change and I bet I never got close to $600 with the routine service done to my Lexus. Keep in mind Toyota took over GM as the manufacturer to beat in just about any category. I really like my car but will gladly trade it for a Lexus quality Super Sedan any day.
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From: VA
c63 BS; lc500; F-pace SVR; Jaguar P8, c63 p31
There's nothing like a Lexus dealer ship experience. They open 6am-11pm, seven days a week; lexus loaners provided; free food and beverages in the lobby; and most important, their staff are extremely efficient and are great in treating their customers. My 06' IS350 ownership experience completely sold me on Lexus' customer service.
I still think that AMG have the best looking cars in the world, right along with Ferrari & Lamborgini. There's no other car brands out there that can stir your soul the same way these could, for me at least. I love going to the show room and look at the ones they have and just salavating....BUT, if Lexus can come close to AMGs in looks and performance, I'd gladly switch over for the added bonus of reliability and great service.
At the moment, ISF is the ugliest of the bunch (C63, RS4, M3) so I may hold off on that and wait a few years until Lexus assemble a better design team. And I can't wait for that.
I still think that AMG have the best looking cars in the world, right along with Ferrari & Lamborgini. There's no other car brands out there that can stir your soul the same way these could, for me at least. I love going to the show room and look at the ones they have and just salavating....BUT, if Lexus can come close to AMGs in looks and performance, I'd gladly switch over for the added bonus of reliability and great service.
At the moment, ISF is the ugliest of the bunch (C63, RS4, M3) so I may hold off on that and wait a few years until Lexus assemble a better design team. And I can't wait for that.
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From: Australia
Hey guys, just thought I'd let you see the "opposition", lol. It looks pretty nasty, thats for sure. What do you guys think? Should be a great battle between this, the M3, the C63, and the RS4. All of these cars are simply amazing.
This is the IS-F mini-site, go to the gallery for vids:http://www.lexus.com/isf/index.html?=technology
This is the IS-F mini-site, go to the gallery for vids:http://www.lexus.com/isf/index.html?=technologySound likes F1 car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPp7s1yi0EY
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CLS55 AMG
Lexus won't win the performance battle, but they will still sell every last one of the F series cars. I know a lot of people that left the benz and bimmer camp for lexus and will never buy anything but a lexus from now on. Not everyone that has a high performance car drives it like it should and if they don't need to have the latest magazine test winner and value reliability they won't hesitate to buy the lexus.
I also find it funny that the biggest basher in this thread drives a ford mustang.
I also find it funny that the biggest basher in this thread drives a ford mustang.
Well, wrt the Lexus issue, there is definitely something to be said for their stellar reliability and customer service. You *always* get a Lexus loaner at our local dealerships, whereas when I take my Benz in, I'm usually stuck with a POS non-Benz clunker.
And the Benz repair rates are astronomical....plus, issues that develop in their cars (broken motor mounts, leaky seals, etc.) aren't corrected or courtesied. It's really a sour point of ownership, and should be corrected.
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1988 535i 5 speed
Lol, I had to laugh when I read this. The first thing I thought when I saw the interior of the IS-F was how butt ugly it looked. It looks like typical Jap garbage, and I would think it belongs in a Camry or Accord if you hadn't told me it was a Lexus.
The funniest thing to me is for someone to assume that Jap car makers know a damn thing about building V8s. The reason a car like the IS-F or any Jap car for that matter that tries to put a V8 in their cars can't compete is that they know jack sh*t and have basically no history in developing V8s. Now you might be able to compete with the low-torque weak V8 of the BMW M3 (another model that has no history of V8s), but there is no way in hell you're going to compete with a 6.2 liter AMG designed brand new V8. $4-5K ain't going to do sh*t to a crappy Jap designed 5.0 liter V8. That same $4-$5K in a 6.2 liter AMG V8 would destroy that car any day of the week. As it relates to the status question. you will unquestionably get more status with the Mercedes anyway (C Class or not), simply because it is a Mercedes, than you would would with a modified version of a Japanese rice boy racer sedan. When I look at the IS-F, all I see is an evolved version of years of hideous purple or neon green painted rice rockets I've seen on the street with ugly ground effects, fart-can exhausts you could stick your head into, and Type R stickers. There is really nothing that can change that picture in my head.
The funniest thing to me is for someone to assume that Jap car makers know a damn thing about building V8s. The reason a car like the IS-F or any Jap car for that matter that tries to put a V8 in their cars can't compete is that they know jack sh*t and have basically no history in developing V8s. Now you might be able to compete with the low-torque weak V8 of the BMW M3 (another model that has no history of V8s), but there is no way in hell you're going to compete with a 6.2 liter AMG designed brand new V8. $4-5K ain't going to do sh*t to a crappy Jap designed 5.0 liter V8. That same $4-$5K in a 6.2 liter AMG V8 would destroy that car any day of the week. As it relates to the status question. you will unquestionably get more status with the Mercedes anyway (C Class or not), simply because it is a Mercedes, than you would would with a modified version of a Japanese rice boy racer sedan. When I look at the IS-F, all I see is an evolved version of years of hideous purple or neon green painted rice rockets I've seen on the street with ugly ground effects, fart-can exhausts you could stick your head into, and Type R stickers. There is really nothing that can change that picture in my head.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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1988 535i 5 speed
There's nothing like a Lexus dealer ship experience. They open 6am-11pm, seven days a week; lexus loaners provided; free food and beverages in the lobby; and most important, their staff are extremely efficient and are great in treating their customers. My 06' IS350 ownership experience completely sold me on Lexus' customer service.
I still think that AMG have the best looking cars in the world, right along with Ferrari & Lamborgini. There's no other car brands out there that can stir your soul the same way these could, for me at least. I love going to the show room and look at the ones they have and just salavating....BUT, if Lexus can come close to AMGs in looks and performance, I'd gladly switch over for the added bonus of reliability and great service.
At the moment, ISF is the ugliest of the bunch (C63, RS4, M3) so I may hold off on that and wait a few years until Lexus assemble a better design team. And I can't wait for that.
I still think that AMG have the best looking cars in the world, right along with Ferrari & Lamborgini. There's no other car brands out there that can stir your soul the same way these could, for me at least. I love going to the show room and look at the ones they have and just salavating....BUT, if Lexus can come close to AMGs in looks and performance, I'd gladly switch over for the added bonus of reliability and great service.
At the moment, ISF is the ugliest of the bunch (C63, RS4, M3) so I may hold off on that and wait a few years until Lexus assemble a better design team. And I can't wait for that.
AMGnaf, thanks for that link. Man, that thing sounds like a cross between an F1 car and a CGT. Just imagine that in a GS.
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1988 535i 5 speed
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CLK550
Yes it is a high revving N/A.....but i don't think it will be a fun one. Come to think of it, Honda VTEC is a "high revving N/A". And what do you mean as far as it is not that big? The car or the engine? The car bigger than the previous M3 and as heavy as the old M5's!
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R35 GT-R, EvoX
The GT-R will be on a completely different performance level, its goal is to best the Porsche 997 Turbo. Even though theres a lot of information on the car, its still all speculation. The car will be officially unveiled on October 24 at 12:50 am at the Tokyo Motor Show.
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1988 535i 5 speed
Yes it is a high revving N/A.....but i don't think it will be a fun one. Come to think of it, Honda VTEC is a "high revving N/A". And what do you mean as far as it is not that big? The car or the engine? The car bigger than the previous M3 and as heavy as the old M5's!
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02 C32 AMG
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From: london
996 C4, previously owned 996 c2, c32 amg, 350z, R33 GTR, R34 GTR
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87 190d turbo
Hello All,
New to the forums and preparing to buy a sports sedan. Likely a C63...If I can hold out til April!
An IS shortcoming of a non-performance sort.
The cabin is small...I mean really small. My head touches the ceiling. I'm 6'4" which is tall but not NBA-tall. I have headroom clearance in every modern car I have driven including the Mini and Lotus Elise...But not in a Lexus sedan?
What's worse is that the seats in the IS didn't lower so I asked the sales guy sitting next to me and he cheerily replied "The seats go waaay back". I was totally shocked.
Maybe for the extra money the IS-F will have enhanced seat controls but...
...Even so, I still can't wrap my head around the idea of paying that much for a performance car that has no lineage to speak of and no real aftermarket. Will it? Maybe.
In the meantime the Euro cars in this niche get my vote.
New to the forums and preparing to buy a sports sedan. Likely a C63...If I can hold out til April!
An IS shortcoming of a non-performance sort.
The cabin is small...I mean really small. My head touches the ceiling. I'm 6'4" which is tall but not NBA-tall. I have headroom clearance in every modern car I have driven including the Mini and Lotus Elise...But not in a Lexus sedan?
What's worse is that the seats in the IS didn't lower so I asked the sales guy sitting next to me and he cheerily replied "The seats go waaay back". I was totally shocked.
Maybe for the extra money the IS-F will have enhanced seat controls but...
...Even so, I still can't wrap my head around the idea of paying that much for a performance car that has no lineage to speak of and no real aftermarket. Will it? Maybe.
In the meantime the Euro cars in this niche get my vote.
