Motortrend: M3 sedan vs C63 vs IS-F
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From: OC, SoCal
08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
2. Okay, so you're 31. This puts you in a middle ground. What I don;t get is that the C63 has so many stick-on appendages it is far more boy-racer than the M3. With the E46 M3 and C32/55, I would understand your perspective better. As regards the subjective view of "image," I'm with you. M3s are too often bought by c0ckheads.
3. Despite what the guy below says, reliability is of course nothing to be sniffed at.
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Some of us actually take our cars to a track (road circuit, not a drag strip), so that we MAKE USE OF THE PERFORMANCE of our cars in a safe environment on track, rather than just show off our straight line acceleration abilities unsafely on public roads. You probably don't understand this point, because you probably have never taken your car to the track, so you have no perspective about "performance" outside of blasting away in a straight line in your A-class. If I'm wrong, then I apologize.
An M3 can beat a C63 on the track but as 99.9999% of driving is on the road it matter not one iota. What matters is how these cars behave on the street and pure performance terms the C63 wallops the M3 with in gear times. In fact the 335d probably just edges it as well.
But numbers are not everything. The subjective side is far more important, from whether you get pride of ownership, what it sounds like, what the steering feels like, whether you can fun in it, if you like the interior and think it looks a million dollars. In a lot of these areas the C63 beats the M3.
The sooner people stop getting overly concerned with quarter mile times and lap times the better. For most of the time they are completely irrelevant to the experience of ownership. Apart from when behind a keyboard it seems though.
Regards
Andy
Last edited by Andy7oaks; Mar 15, 2008 at 02:22 PM.
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From: Lake Forest, IL
08 CLK63 Black Series, 11 ZR1, 13 M6, 15 G63
What is the weight difference between an M3 coupe and an M3 sedan? BMW is offering both coupes and sedans in the M3, aren't they? Is there a difference in wheelbase as well? Why did they not put an M3 sedan up against the other two sedans? They should have just put a Black Series up against the M3 coupe if they wanted to compare apples to apples...Oh, because the dorks at the mags all have hard-ons for BMW's, that's why, and the BMW would not have prevailed!
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
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From: DE
2002 BMW M5
I have been watching this battle. Every report I've seen/read to date puts the M3 ahead of the C63 (Top Gear, MotorTrend, etc.). Now, with that said, most of that is driveability around a track. So in the real world, where we drive daily to maybe 75% of what the car is capable of, does it really matter? This is the question to be answered by each and everyone of you individually. This is the more 'fair' comparison, putting them head to head as daily drivers.
I like the looks of both, inside and out. The M3 seems a bit more understated. I don't like the wheels on either car. I think the C63 is a bit larger which helps if you're carrying passengers. I think the M3 gets a bit better mpg. To me, it would seem the C63 would 'feel' faster and more alive because of the massive torque compared to the M3. But maybe not as smooth and linear. I don't know myself. For the time being, I'm keeping my M5and will wait to see what grows on me.
We are surely in a muscle car war. Not knowing which to buy is certainly a nice problem to have. I just hope the cost of gasoline doesn't put a vice on such cars like it did in the 70's, among other things.
I like the looks of both, inside and out. The M3 seems a bit more understated. I don't like the wheels on either car. I think the C63 is a bit larger which helps if you're carrying passengers. I think the M3 gets a bit better mpg. To me, it would seem the C63 would 'feel' faster and more alive because of the massive torque compared to the M3. But maybe not as smooth and linear. I don't know myself. For the time being, I'm keeping my M5and will wait to see what grows on me.
We are surely in a muscle car war. Not knowing which to buy is certainly a nice problem to have. I just hope the cost of gasoline doesn't put a vice on such cars like it did in the 70's, among other things.
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From: Chicago
e55
What is the weight difference between an M3 coupe and an M3 sedan? BMW is offering both coupes and sedans in the M3, aren't they? Is there a difference in wheelbase as well? Why did they not put an M3 sedan up against the other two sedans? They should have just put a Black Series up against the M3 coupe if they wanted to compare apples to apples...Oh, because the dorks at the mags all have hard-ons for BMW's, that's why, and the BMW would not have prevailed!
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From: Baltimore MD
MB, BMW
I have been watching this battle. Every report I've seen/read to date puts the M3 ahead of the C63 (Top Gear, MotorTrend, etc.). Now, with that said, most of that is driveability around a track. So in the real world, where we drive daily to maybe 75% of what the car is capable of, does it really matter? This is the question to be answered by each and everyone of you individually. This is the more 'fair' comparison, putting them head to head as daily drivers.
what planet are you from? these are "sport sedans" with 400+ hp, they are meant to go fast around a track, that's the whole point. 4 seconds is an eternity, c63 got *****-slapped and then some by the m3. yet again.
based on your logic, for a daily driver all you need is a 100hp econobox.
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From: around the world
monowiper
got to feel the new "carbon leather" trim in the M3, looks very good in person and feels like just that weaved leather very smooth
imo in person sedan looks better than the coupe
unlike the lucky AZ people still no c63's seen in person so can't comment
imo in person sedan looks better than the coupe
unlike the lucky AZ people still no c63's seen in person so can't comment
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2001 S500 Sport "Klaus"
man, that was trippy.
in other news, in the current "gt porsche" magazine, the new m3 gets the business and then some by a stock cayman S. the review is written by the owner of the m3, and he's genuinely surprised by both the cayman's exceptionalism and the m3's shortcomings.
but the review isn't all black and white; it's at the level of splitting hairs, really. we are talking a pair of $70k euro high-line performance cars. any similar comparison is bound to be at a very high level of resolution too.
in other news, in the current "gt porsche" magazine, the new m3 gets the business and then some by a stock cayman S. the review is written by the owner of the m3, and he's genuinely surprised by both the cayman's exceptionalism and the m3's shortcomings.
but the review isn't all black and white; it's at the level of splitting hairs, really. we are talking a pair of $70k euro high-line performance cars. any similar comparison is bound to be at a very high level of resolution too.
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From: So-Cal
W211 E55 AMG, ML63 AMG, Past 996GT3,ZCPM3,Brabus C32,ML 500
TO the C63 guys, get ready for a whole lotta..
"I'll rape you in the twisties" from the M3 guys..
Like its been said ever since the C36 came out against the E36M.
"I'll rape you in the twisties" from the M3 guys..
Like its been said ever since the C36 came out against the E36M.
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From: Sacramento/San Gabriel/Riverside
01' C32o
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From: Hainesport, NJ
2014 CTS-V (6spd, phantom grey), 2010 Cadillac Escalade ESV (black raven)
I personally prefer the appearance of the C63 over the M3. Considering a smaller, more nimble sedan. I think at the level of driving that most of us are capable of, either car is more than enough to satisfy our needs.
The only thing (albeit not a small thing) that favors the M3 in my mind is the service/maintenance offered by BMW. If Mercedes still had that program, would be a no brainer for me...C63.
P.S. I saw the CLK 63 Black Series in the showroom last week. Wow!
The only thing (albeit not a small thing) that favors the M3 in my mind is the service/maintenance offered by BMW. If Mercedes still had that program, would be a no brainer for me...C63.
P.S. I saw the CLK 63 Black Series in the showroom last week. Wow!
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E63, SL 550 Sport,C63 Coupe On the Way!!
I drove both cars the C63 and the M3 coupe overall two different cars for different buyers. I am the owner of the E63 and the engine is just awesome but the chassis on the E211 sucks, it’s a total joke making the car boring as can be.
The C63 is a big improvement over my E63 in driving dynamics but it’s still not as connecting as the M.
The M3 chassis is superb so balanced and the ride quality is smooth to boot, unlike my 911 Porsche which beats you up if driven every day. I was expecting the M to pull harder and it does compared to the E46 at when I hit 90mph it kept going unlike the straight 6 of the prior generation car which seemed to run out of steam on top end. However my little brothers 335i felt very close in power to the M.
My honest opinion I wish the M3 had the C63 engine or the C63 had the M's chassis so there will be a trade off in what the owner wants. For me I rather have the better chassis than the power for my driving style and roads traveled and I am partial on the looks of both, the M looks a bit more aggressive but the C63 with some nice 19' wheels and a lowered stance would look even killer.
Overall the M3 Chassis wins as for its engine I have to see if I would be happy with it versus my AMG. But I feel the M3 is a very good substitute to a Cayman S for a daily driver the C63 is maybe more practical on that scale but I am not a drag racer so chassis dynamics outweigh 0-60 sprints for me that’s why I don’t have a 911 Turbo just the 3.8 S is plenty for me.
The C63 is a big improvement over my E63 in driving dynamics but it’s still not as connecting as the M.
The M3 chassis is superb so balanced and the ride quality is smooth to boot, unlike my 911 Porsche which beats you up if driven every day. I was expecting the M to pull harder and it does compared to the E46 at when I hit 90mph it kept going unlike the straight 6 of the prior generation car which seemed to run out of steam on top end. However my little brothers 335i felt very close in power to the M.
My honest opinion I wish the M3 had the C63 engine or the C63 had the M's chassis so there will be a trade off in what the owner wants. For me I rather have the better chassis than the power for my driving style and roads traveled and I am partial on the looks of both, the M looks a bit more aggressive but the C63 with some nice 19' wheels and a lowered stance would look even killer.
Overall the M3 Chassis wins as for its engine I have to see if I would be happy with it versus my AMG. But I feel the M3 is a very good substitute to a Cayman S for a daily driver the C63 is maybe more practical on that scale but I am not a drag racer so chassis dynamics outweigh 0-60 sprints for me that’s why I don’t have a 911 Turbo just the 3.8 S is plenty for me.
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From: Hong Kong
'02 C32; '02 M5; '08 328i (US)
Which 911 do you have BenzoManNY? Coz I found the C63 a lot more hash than the 997 Carrera S... The 997 is as smooth as a Lexus when comparing it to the C63 LOL How did the M3 compares to the C63 in ride quality? Coz right now, the biggest turn off for me is the hash ride on the C63..
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E63, SL 550 Sport,C63 Coupe On the Way!!
I have a 2003 996 3.8 RUF RGT, PS9 coilover and 19' wheels its not set up for bumpy roads and its rough and you feel everything being stuck inside the GT3 race seats.
Anyone here check what tires were on the C63' you driven? The car I drove had Conti Sport 3' same as my E63. Tire pressure could also be something to consider I am sure lots of these cars got unloaded from port and werent even prepped, almost ever car I took delivery had over inflated tire pressure, my older BMW 550 Sport had 55psi in two tires and one was closer to 60 and that car had run flats and until i checked when I got home I was not happy driving it back from the dealer.
The M3 driven was in the hardest EDC setting and It rode nice I was surprised but then again its all in the design of the chassis and suspension.
Anyone here check what tires were on the C63' you driven? The car I drove had Conti Sport 3' same as my E63. Tire pressure could also be something to consider I am sure lots of these cars got unloaded from port and werent even prepped, almost ever car I took delivery had over inflated tire pressure, my older BMW 550 Sport had 55psi in two tires and one was closer to 60 and that car had run flats and until i checked when I got home I was not happy driving it back from the dealer.
The M3 driven was in the hardest EDC setting and It rode nice I was surprised but then again its all in the design of the chassis and suspension.
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From: Las Vegas
'11 997.2 Carrera GTS
I belong to the local motorsports country club and hit the track 3 to 5 times a month on average. I'm not into golf or gambling so taking my car to the track is my outlet.
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From: Las Vegas
'11 997.2 Carrera GTS
I have a 2003 996 3.8 RUF RGT, PS9 coilover and 19' wheels its not set up for bumpy roads and its rough and you feel everything being stuck inside the GT3 race seats.
Anyone here check what tires were on the C63' you driven? The car I drove had Conti Sport 3' same as my E63. Tire pressure could also be something to consider I am sure lots of these cars got unloaded from port and werent even prepped, almost ever car I took delivery had over inflated tire pressure, my older BMW 550 Sport had 55psi in two tires and one was closer to 60 and that car had run flats and until i checked when I got home I was not happy driving it back from the dealer.
The M3 driven was in the hardest EDC setting and It rode nice I was surprised but then again its all in the design of the chassis and suspension.
Anyone here check what tires were on the C63' you driven? The car I drove had Conti Sport 3' same as my E63. Tire pressure could also be something to consider I am sure lots of these cars got unloaded from port and werent even prepped, almost ever car I took delivery had over inflated tire pressure, my older BMW 550 Sport had 55psi in two tires and one was closer to 60 and that car had run flats and until i checked when I got home I was not happy driving it back from the dealer.
The M3 driven was in the hardest EDC setting and It rode nice I was surprised but then again its all in the design of the chassis and suspension.
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From: san francisco
C32
so time and time again we were told the C63 would be closer to the M3 in terms of handling? Well, that's all hogwash at this point.
But then, was the car fitted with an LSD? It doesn't seem like it to me, and 4-5 seconds on a 2.7 mile track is an eternity. Heck, even the ISF barely lost to the c63 on the track, that's gotta be an embarassment for an established AMG against a first time hotshot.
As great as the engine is, no way will I consider the C63 in its current form.
But then, was the car fitted with an LSD? It doesn't seem like it to me, and 4-5 seconds on a 2.7 mile track is an eternity. Heck, even the ISF barely lost to the c63 on the track, that's gotta be an embarassment for an established AMG against a first time hotshot.
As great as the engine is, no way will I consider the C63 in its current form.
Last edited by ultraseven; Mar 25, 2008 at 03:13 PM.
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From: Northern NJ
2009 C63
I had the E46 M3 with SMG...loved the car and I miss it, but this time around its the C63 for me definitey
Im not big into track times as mine will never touch a track, so the lap times dont mean that much to me...to me, the C63 was just done right, front to back, inside and out...I cant stand the tail lights on the M3 sedan, but i want the 4 doors, IMO the interior wins hands down on the c63 as well...for me, it was a tough call as I still have some loyalty to BMW since I loved the M3, so it did come down to the minor cosmetic differences, performace wise I dont think you can lose with either cars...
as for the Lexus IS-F, the tailpipes are weird and the puffy seats just dont look aggressive enough
plus, I think BMW service sux, my car went in at least 7 times for an SMG fault they could never fix. i ended up using 3 different dealer, none of which would give me a loaner since i did not buy the car there. from what I hear, MB will even pick u up!
thats just my 2 cents
Im not big into track times as mine will never touch a track, so the lap times dont mean that much to me...to me, the C63 was just done right, front to back, inside and out...I cant stand the tail lights on the M3 sedan, but i want the 4 doors, IMO the interior wins hands down on the c63 as well...for me, it was a tough call as I still have some loyalty to BMW since I loved the M3, so it did come down to the minor cosmetic differences, performace wise I dont think you can lose with either cars...
as for the Lexus IS-F, the tailpipes are weird and the puffy seats just dont look aggressive enough
plus, I think BMW service sux, my car went in at least 7 times for an SMG fault they could never fix. i ended up using 3 different dealer, none of which would give me a loaner since i did not buy the car there. from what I hear, MB will even pick u up!
thats just my 2 cents
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SL65, E55T, Pending S65
so time and time again we were told the C63 would be closer to the M3 in terms of handling? Well, that's all hogwash at this point.
But then, was the car fitted with an LSD? It doesn't seem like it to me, and 4-5 seconds on a 2.7 mile track is an eternity. Heck, even the ISF barely lost to the c63 on the track, that's gotta be an embarassment for an established AMG against a first time hotshot.
As great as the engine is, no way will I consider the C63 in its current form.
But then, was the car fitted with an LSD? It doesn't seem like it to me, and 4-5 seconds on a 2.7 mile track is an eternity. Heck, even the ISF barely lost to the c63 on the track, that's gotta be an embarassment for an established AMG against a first time hotshot.
As great as the engine is, no way will I consider the C63 in its current form.
What were you expecting?
