So wait a second The C63 is faster than the clk black series except around a track?
04-23-2008, 06:27 PM
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W203, W211, W219, W212
Not according to this:
https://mbworld.org/forums/off-topic/241126-amg-challenge-highlights.html
The C63 tied up with the CLK63BS in straight, all day long
https://mbworld.org/forums/off-topic/241126-amg-challenge-highlights.html
The C63 tied up with the CLK63BS in straight, all day long
04-23-2008, 07:12 PM
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'05 C55(sold)'05 E55(sold)'06 911C4S(sold)'06 ML350 '06 CLS55(sold),buncha slo bikes
I could tell you that a CLK63 Black Series has done an 11.9 @ 118 (which one has) but again, it would need to be compared on the same track at the same time with a C63 and then we'd know. Also, from a dig would depend on driver skill of launching so a rolling test would be better.
04-23-2008, 07:16 PM
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'05 C55(sold)'05 E55(sold)'06 911C4S(sold)'06 ML350 '06 CLS55(sold),buncha slo bikes
definitely an amazing car for the money
and with 500hp re-map it will be a good match on the highway(the 7 speed gearing helps a bit for hwy speeds), out of the hole the Z06 has a slight weight advantage that will be hard to beat with an experienced driver shifting and clutching the z06. the SMG in my M6 shifts so fast and smooth it chirps the first 4 gears perfectly, so you will always pick up time against someone manually shifting and clutching-- i am just hoping the new tranny and programming in the c63 will be just as quick as the SMG.
they probably gave car and driver a c63 with an ecu remap! because no other 3800lb car is doing 0-60 in 3.9 with under 500hp (skyline excluded--all wheel drive tubro engaged launch control not fair lol)--
and with 500hp re-map it will be a good match on the highway(the 7 speed gearing helps a bit for hwy speeds), out of the hole the Z06 has a slight weight advantage that will be hard to beat with an experienced driver shifting and clutching the z06. the SMG in my M6 shifts so fast and smooth it chirps the first 4 gears perfectly, so you will always pick up time against someone manually shifting and clutching-- i am just hoping the new tranny and programming in the c63 will be just as quick as the SMG.
they probably gave car and driver a c63 with an ecu remap! because no other 3800lb car is doing 0-60 in 3.9 with under 500hp (skyline excluded--all wheel drive tubro engaged launch control not fair lol)--
The C6 Z06 will DESTROY a C63,from a dig,from a roll or wherever. A hiway roll-on eliminates ALL driver skill&is a pure horsepower race,where the 3100lb Z06 will walk a 3700lb(or whatever it weighs) C63.The Z06 traps at over 125mph on average.No stock AMG besides the V-12tt models have broken the 120mph trap barrier I'm a HUGE AMG fan,but lets be realistic about the cars capabilities
Last edited by oldgixxer; 04-23-2008 at 07:27 PM.
04-23-2008, 07:29 PM
#29
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Is everyone basing everything in raw speed? I did get a chance to see the brand new SL63 at the NYC car show and it was amazing looking inside and out. Blew the doors off of the C63 sitting next to it. Completely blew it away but that is why it is twice as much money. Not to mention that is is a hard top convertible. Sure the C63 might be as fast but no comparison with anything else on the C63. I had a chance to sit in a Black Series and it was beautiful inside and the outside is very sexy. Everyone was complaining a few threads ago about the C63 having such a cheap interior and no keyless go and it did not have this and that and so on. If you step up to the Black you can have all of the extras you want. I do not think that someone that is looking to purchase a Black Series is going to look at the C63 just because it has the same engine. It is a totally different beast. They is just my opinion of this debate.
04-23-2008, 07:29 PM
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C63S coupe, X5M
well, even though it's as fast the interior quality isn't the same..I mean with how fast AMG's have become you really can't get them that much faster then they are right now..unless you want to start giving all the Amg versions over 600 horsepower and the v-12's with 700!
Who cares if it's as fast? Good for the C63..I mean the GTR is faster than any Amg car out there does that mean people that drive Amg cars should be pissed?
The c63 was built on performance first and luxury second..all the other amg models are built on luxury first and performance second!
Who cares if it's as fast? Good for the C63..I mean the GTR is faster than any Amg car out there does that mean people that drive Amg cars should be pissed?
The c63 was built on performance first and luxury second..all the other amg models are built on luxury first and performance second!
I believe your analogy is flawed.
Compare the C55 to the SL55 and you'll see that the SL had a lot more power and a lot more quality. Things have changed as now the quality is still ahead but power is not.
The C63 will handle better then the SL63 and it will probably be faster. For twice the price the SL63 is at a large disadvantage. I think they should have upped the power on the SL63, 550hp would make things more balanced and for 140k it's not asking too much relative to it's competition...
04-23-2008, 07:44 PM
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Agreed, it is a bit silly and does suck for those who have SL/E/CLS/CL 63's...
It's fairly simple why, MB is lazy. BMW shaved off 2 cylinders from there V10 to create a new V8 for the M3. AMG didn't touch the 6.2, they just threw it in the C-Class and "detuned" it. That saved a load of R&D compared to BMW.
It's fairly simple why, MB is lazy. BMW shaved off 2 cylinders from there V10 to create a new V8 for the M3. AMG didn't touch the 6.2, they just threw it in the C-Class and "detuned" it. That saved a load of R&D compared to BMW.
04-23-2008, 08:58 PM
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C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Well, most roads are not straight. CLK63 Black Series will be faster around pretty much any turn.
The CLK63 Black Series has an AMG designed fully adjustable suspension (ride height and damper settings) as well as extra cooling systems for the differential, transmission, engine, etc.
In straight line speed the difference is probably not very significant and on a curvy road or a track the difference would become very noticeable.
The CLK63 Black Series has an AMG designed fully adjustable suspension (ride height and damper settings) as well as extra cooling systems for the differential, transmission, engine, etc.
In straight line speed the difference is probably not very significant and on a curvy road or a track the difference would become very noticeable.
04-23-2008, 10:18 PM
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Lotus Elise SLK55
Before I go on, I love the C63, I think it's awesome and a great buy for the money.
I believe your analogy is flawed.
Compare the C55 to the SL55 and you'll see that the SL had a lot more power and a lot more quality. Things have changed as now the quality is still ahead but power is not.
The C63 will handle better then the SL63 and it will probably be faster. For twice the price the SL63 is at a large disadvantage. I think they should have upped the power on the SL63, 550hp would make things more balanced and for 140k it's not asking too much relative to it's competition...
I believe your analogy is flawed.
Compare the C55 to the SL55 and you'll see that the SL had a lot more power and a lot more quality. Things have changed as now the quality is still ahead but power is not.
The C63 will handle better then the SL63 and it will probably be faster. For twice the price the SL63 is at a large disadvantage. I think they should have upped the power on the SL63, 550hp would make things more balanced and for 140k it's not asking too much relative to it's competition...
That's why SL65 is the only way to go. I say skip the SL63, wait a year, and then buy a low mileage SL65 for same money. In the used car market, the actual price difference between SL63 and SL65 will be so small that 63's won't even be worth considering. Look at how close the current SL55 and SL65 prices are. There are plenty low mileage 65's for under $100,000. You just have to be patient.
04-23-2008, 11:17 PM
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ML500 AMG pkg
Why build a car that can handle and stop on a dime when everyone just wants to go zero to sixtey in a straight line? What a wast of suspension weight distribution and brakes. But to make the SL63 different , it will be set up with a MCT (multi clutch trans) which allows RS (race start). They replaced the torque conver with a unit(60% lighter) the has multiple clutchs which allows the driver to hold the brake, apply full throttle then release the brake to launch with no wheel spin. MB finally is building fun and exciting sports cars and everyone is complaing.....let it be and enjoy the rides. At least in Europe MB is teaching AMG drivers how to drive their cars, go to mercedes amg web site and see for yourself.
04-23-2008, 11:40 PM
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2006 CLK350
I agree that the SL63 and CLK63 BS are way better looking (subjective). I agree interiors are better, and hard top on the SL is cool. You have to think about it logically. EVERYTHING needs to be better, not just cosmetics, the engine on a $140,000 car needs to rip the 60k engine in half. I agree with addicted to speed. Its not suppose to close, AT ALL. When you price something 80,000 over something else. It better have more brains, beauty and brawn.Realistically, the engine of a CAR matters much more than looks.
Is everyone basing everything in raw speed? I did get a chance to see the brand new SL63 at the NYC car show and it was amazing looking inside and out. Blew the doors off of the C63 sitting next to it. Completely blew it away but that is why it is twice as much money. Not to mention that is is a hard top convertible. Sure the C63 might be as fast but no comparison with anything else on the C63. I had a chance to sit in a Black Series and it was beautiful inside and the outside is very sexy. Everyone was complaining a few threads ago about the C63 having such a cheap interior and no keyless go and it did not have this and that and so on. If you step up to the Black you can have all of the extras you want. I do not think that someone that is looking to purchase a Black Series is going to look at the C63 just because it has the same engine. It is a totally different beast. They is just my opinion of this debate.
04-24-2008, 01:21 AM
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C63S coupe, X5M
That's why SL65 is the only way to go. I say skip the SL63, wait a year, and then buy a low mileage SL65 for same money. In the used car market, the actual price difference between SL63 and SL65 will be so small that 63's won't even be worth considering. Look at how close the current SL55 and SL65 prices are. There are plenty low mileage 65's for under $100,000. You just have to be patient.
Have to say though, I can't wait till MB builds a replacement for the V12 TT, the engine isn't very dynamic, it's dated and so is the transmission. They need to put in the 7.3L V12 they built for the Zonda F...
04-24-2008, 01:49 AM
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this is kinda ridiculous. if anyone thinks that your paying the extra money for performance then your trippin. not to mention the fact that the c63 is the first performance oriented MB since most any of us were ever alive. also you have to look at the rest of the market. the C's competition is not the same as the SL and CLK BS. the more relevant question is why MB makes the SL and CLK BS. the SL's competition is the 911 and the CLK BS the uhh......... 911.
04-24-2008, 02:03 AM
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Sorry but a SL65 falls over it's own to feet. 2.1-2 Tons is not going to corner well, the Sl55 is the only one to go for, Merc made the biggest mistake not by making almost all the cars 6.2l V8's but rather dropping the 5.4l S/C V8 it was a Monster of a engine.
the SL65 BS is due soon, having seen the thing in the flesh i can't wait.
the SL65 BS is due soon, having seen the thing in the flesh i can't wait.
04-24-2008, 02:08 AM
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C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
this is kinda ridiculous. if anyone thinks that your paying the extra money for performance then your trippin. not to mention the fact that the c63 is the first performance oriented MB since most any of us were ever alive. also you have to look at the rest of the market. the C's competition is not the same as the SL and CLK BS. the more relevant question is why MB makes the SL and CLK BS. the SL's competition is the 911 and the CLK BS the uhh......... 911.
04-24-2008, 09:10 AM
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BMW M6
Are you joking? The C6 Z06 will DESTROY a C63,from a dig,from a roll or wherever. A hiway roll-on eliminates ALL driver skill&is a pure horsepower race,where the 3100lb Z06 will walk a 3700lb(or whatever it weighs) C63.The Z06 traps at over 125mph on average.No stock AMG besides the V-12tt models have broken the 120mph trap barrier
I'm a HUGE AMG fan,but lets be realistic about the cars capabilities
The C6 Z06 will DESTROY a C63,from a dig,from a roll or wherever. A hiway roll-on eliminates ALL driver skill&is a pure horsepower race,where the 3100lb Z06 will walk a 3700lb(or whatever it weighs) C63.The Z06 traps at over 125mph on average.No stock AMG besides the V-12tt models have broken the 120mph trap barrier I'm a HUGE AMG fan,but lets be realistic about the cars capabilities
AND a higway roll doesn't elminate all driver skill-- you still need to clutch and shift from 30mph to 150! allloottttt of room for error-- been there done that!
04-24-2008, 12:30 PM
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Is this true? So for almost a little more than half the price of a clk black series you get the same engine with less horsepower in a car that is faster....... Am I missing something here?
ANd lets get over the black series body kit on a clk for a sec please because we all know that this is just a redone clk chasis on the clk black..........
The only advantage is that it is faster around a track? WTF?
ANd lets get over the black series body kit on a clk for a sec please because we all know that this is just a redone clk chasis on the clk black..........
The only advantage is that it is faster around a track? WTF?
The CLK63 Black is faster than the C63.
The C63 is aimed at the M3 (Bimmer usually wins the comparison)
The CLK63 Black is aimed at the M6 (Mercedes usually wins the comparison)
04-24-2008, 12:52 PM
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2005 Brabus C55
At Tuesday's AMG Challenge, I got to witness multiple drag races b/t a CLKBS & a C63.
It looks like the BS could only pull a couple of car lengths on the C63 @ an estimated 1/4 mile (possibly slightly less).
Depsite the 60 treadwear tires on the BS, it had traction issues through about 40+mph, The C63 got a pretty decent and predictable launch.
You would have to be a serious AMG-phile to justify a BS. They are very cool but "slightly" over-priced.
It looks like the BS could only pull a couple of car lengths on the C63 @ an estimated 1/4 mile (possibly slightly less).
Depsite the 60 treadwear tires on the BS, it had traction issues through about 40+mph, The C63 got a pretty decent and predictable launch.
You would have to be a serious AMG-phile to justify a BS. They are very cool but "slightly" over-priced.
04-24-2008, 03:27 PM
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C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
04-24-2008, 03:43 PM
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2005 Brabus C55
not trying to flame BS owners ... there a lot of great cars in that price range ... although most do not have the BS exclusivity.
I'm sure your enjoying yours!!!!!
The Pirelli guy at the AMG Challenge said many BS owners are tracking their cars because the sale of those tires are much higher than expected
04-24-2008, 03:48 PM
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C43, SLK32, CLK63 Black Series
Both are great cars but they are targeted at completely different markets and purposes. The only things they have in common are a great engine and both are made by MB.
Last edited by SteveL; 04-24-2008 at 04:24 PM.
04-24-2008, 04:16 PM
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2005 Brabus C55
No offense taken. The whole theme of this thread is flawed. Just because 2 cars have similar straight line speed doesn't mean the cars are equal or even in the same class. There are too many examples to even get started.
Both are great cars but that are targeted at completely different markets and purposes. The only things they have in common are a great engine and both are made by MB.
Both are great cars but that are targeted at completely different markets and purposes. The only things they have in common are a great engine and both are made by MB.
life isn't just a drag race! there no question which car is quicker around a track.
A C63-CLK63 BS comparison is "kinda like" an SL63/65-SLR comparison (not quite but analogous) ... carbon fiber & engineering ain't cheap apparently.
At the AMG Challenge, the C63 impressed me alot, but we were not allowed to drive the BS cars there ... Tommy Kendall got to!!!! ... It's good to be TK, just ask him
all kidding aside he's a really nice guy.
04-24-2008, 04:49 PM
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1/4 mile, or straight line in general, is only a subset of "performance" .... and taking it further, performance itself is a subset of the car's entire value proposition.
Both are great cars but that are targeted at completely different markets and purposes. The only things they have in common are a great engine and both are made by MB
MB has no control over how Chevy positions and prices its C6 / Z06 / ZR1. It is not going to slash pricing on CL/SL AMGs because of Chevy pricing. But it certainly does control how it positions its own models. The way AMGs were positioned, relative to each other, prior to the 63 series just made intuitive sense. Now, it's a little more questionable.
