VRP CF AirBox arrived
07-21-2008, 05:50 PM
#26
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EuroCharged 2012 C63 BS Coupè
That isn't true. Increasing airflow to the engine has to change something or else you wouldn't feel a difference. If the ECU sits there and does nothing, you are leaning out the air/ fuel mixture, which would make it feel faster, get better mpg, but would make it more prone to detonation. ECU's can compensate to a certain degree however, so it is likely it will add some fuel to maintain the target air/ fuel ratios and the end result would be more power with no compromise in safety. I doubt any off the shelf tuner would make any map that aggressive anyways. Of course, if you can get it tuned for the intake and any additional mods, it'd be safer and might even make more power.
I hear what you are suggesting and I had the same thoughts until I spoke to the guys at VRP, Kleemann, PowerChip and Renntech about this very topic. The ECU that VRP and Renntech use with or without their airboxes present are identical. Powerchip and Kleemann both say that they will not make any changes to their ECU maps knowing there is going to be a CF airbox present.
Last edited by NORTH 44 C63; 07-21-2008 at 05:52 PM.
08-06-2008, 02:19 PM
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'09 C63 AMG
If the ECU/PCM doesn't have to be modified to add more fuel then the replacement CF inlet setup doesn't flow significantly more air than stock. Anytime we tune a vehicle with a CAI vs stock inlet we add a small percentage of fuel across the board.
08-06-2008, 05:10 PM
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08-07-2008, 07:03 AM
#33
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Gentlemen:
Although it looks AMAZING, no doubt, I would REALLY need to see a dyno sheet, before and after to beleive those claims. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is NO WAY just the airbox alone is going to give you that much more power on a NA engine. ALL NA motors are essintialy air pumps, and as such they simply CANNOT draw that much of a vacume through the pipes/boxes to make that LARGE of a jump in power. Supercharged engines, having that lovely huffer, CAN draw substanial amounts of air due to the huffer being the vacume source. Sorry guys its the engineer in me that raises these issues.
Its the tune that is giving it to you. I know skeptics will disagree with me here, so I challange ANYONE to show a before and after dyno sheet
Note the tune would have to be on the car already, one run without the CF box, one with.
I'LL take any bet my friends
See yeah
PS: I'll bet the gains are closer to 5-7 HP or torque
Although it looks AMAZING, no doubt, I would REALLY need to see a dyno sheet, before and after to beleive those claims. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is NO WAY just the airbox alone is going to give you that much more power on a NA engine. ALL NA motors are essintialy air pumps, and as such they simply CANNOT draw that much of a vacume through the pipes/boxes to make that LARGE of a jump in power. Supercharged engines, having that lovely huffer, CAN draw substanial amounts of air due to the huffer being the vacume source. Sorry guys its the engineer in me that raises these issues.
Its the tune that is giving it to you. I know skeptics will disagree with me here, so I challange ANYONE to show a before and after dyno sheet
Note the tune would have to be on the car already, one run without the CF box, one with.
I'LL take any bet my friends
See yeah
PS: I'll bet the gains are closer to 5-7 HP or torque
08-20-2008, 06:48 AM
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CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
Hi Vic,
Just to let you know the CLK63 BS picked up over 1+ MPG on a trip Sunday.
The combo of the CF Box and my modified intake tubes makes a difference..
MachC5
Just to let you know the CLK63 BS picked up over 1+ MPG on a trip Sunday.
The combo of the CF Box and my modified intake tubes makes a difference..
MachC5
08-20-2008, 03:47 PM
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4 wheels
Gentlemen:
Although it looks AMAZING, no doubt, I would REALLY need to see a dyno sheet, before and after to beleive those claims. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is NO WAY just the airbox alone is going to give you that much more power on a NA engine. ALL NA motors are essintialy air pumps, and as such they simply CANNOT draw that much of a vacume through the pipes/boxes to make that LARGE of a jump in power. Supercharged engines, having that lovely huffer, CAN draw substanial amounts of air due to the huffer being the vacume source. Sorry guys its the engineer in me that raises these issues.
Its the tune that is giving it to you. I know skeptics will disagree with me here, so I challange ANYONE to show a before and after dyno sheet
Note the tune would have to be on the car already, one run without the CF box, one with.
I'LL take any bet my friends
See yeah
PS: I'll bet the gains are closer to 5-7 HP or torque
Although it looks AMAZING, no doubt, I would REALLY need to see a dyno sheet, before and after to beleive those claims. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is NO WAY just the airbox alone is going to give you that much more power on a NA engine. ALL NA motors are essintialy air pumps, and as such they simply CANNOT draw that much of a vacume through the pipes/boxes to make that LARGE of a jump in power. Supercharged engines, having that lovely huffer, CAN draw substanial amounts of air due to the huffer being the vacume source. Sorry guys its the engineer in me that raises these issues.
Its the tune that is giving it to you. I know skeptics will disagree with me here, so I challange ANYONE to show a before and after dyno sheet
Note the tune would have to be on the car already, one run without the CF box, one with.
I'LL take any bet my friends
See yeah
PS: I'll bet the gains are closer to 5-7 HP or torque
08-20-2008, 04:12 PM
#37
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Look over at the W211 section and a gentlemen just found out that His CF AB actually showed a loss at the drag strip.
Please, just show me a dyno sheet, same day, same temps. I will even load ths dice and say do the CF second, aka later in the day colder air.
See yeah
08-21-2008, 11:19 AM
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08 E63 Soon
Sorry to say guys, but I will STILL take the bet.
Look over at the W211 section and a gentlemen just found out that His CF AB actually showed a loss at the drag strip.
Please, just show me a dyno sheet, same day, same temps. I will even load ths dice and say do the CF second, aka later in the day colder air.
See yeah
Look over at the W211 section and a gentlemen just found out that His CF AB actually showed a loss at the drag strip.
Please, just show me a dyno sheet, same day, same temps. I will even load ths dice and say do the CF second, aka later in the day colder air.
See yeah
The fellow in the 211 forum openly mentionned that his best pass was done with the stock airbox BUT after 1 hour and 20 minutes of the car cooling and with the air temperature 15 degrees cooler. Even so the difference in time was 0.037 seconds.
To come that close in time with the HUGE advantage of a cool engine and cooler air temps means that the airbox FOR SURE makes appreciable power.
Lastly it seems like some people will not be happy without a dyno sheet no matter what. Fact is that the dyno is a very poor way of evaluating the gains from an intake system whereas real world testing is much more realistic and accurate. Then again those are the same people who only care about HP numbers when buying a car rather than looking at the package as a whole (HP, torque, weight, etc.)
08-21-2008, 11:27 AM
#40
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Lets not spread misinformation here.
The fellow in the 211 forum openly mentionned that his best pass was done with the stock airbox BUT after 1 hour and 20 minutes of the car cooling and with the air temperature 15 degrees cooler. Even so the difference in time was 0.037 seconds.
To come that close in time with the HUGE advantage of a cool engine and cooler air temps means that the airbox FOR SURE makes appreciable power.
Lastly it seems like some people will not be happy without a dyno sheet no matter what. Fact is that the dyno is a very poor way of evaluating the gains from an intake system whereas real world testing is much more realistic and accurate. Then again those are the same people who only care about HP numbers when buying a car rather than looking at the package as a whole (HP, torque, weight, etc.)
The fellow in the 211 forum openly mentionned that his best pass was done with the stock airbox BUT after 1 hour and 20 minutes of the car cooling and with the air temperature 15 degrees cooler. Even so the difference in time was 0.037 seconds.
To come that close in time with the HUGE advantage of a cool engine and cooler air temps means that the airbox FOR SURE makes appreciable power.
Lastly it seems like some people will not be happy without a dyno sheet no matter what. Fact is that the dyno is a very poor way of evaluating the gains from an intake system whereas real world testing is much more realistic and accurate. Then again those are the same people who only care about HP numbers when buying a car rather than looking at the package as a whole (HP, torque, weight, etc.)
You are correct my friend, and I did not mean to imply that he LOST power with the CF airbox. But it is note worthy that he was slower with it. Weather, DA, etc, etc do in fact ALL play a MAJOR role in ET's.
My point is simple, "Do not expect to see a night and day difference in performance with this add on". Sure it looks FANTASTIC, but it will not add a major HP increase, or seat of the pants factor for that matter. It may add some on the VERY top end. And oh yes, you are corrcet that dyno's are NOT the tell all tale bible that some belive in.
See yeah
08-21-2008, 11:47 AM
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08 E63 Soon
Agreed, intakes as a whole do not make huge gains in the same way a turbo or nitrous does. They do however refine the machine and make it operate more efficiently. Increased power is the result of this refinement and it is not only on the top end, as a whole I have found that intakes, thicken up an engine's torque as well as remove some flat spots in the power curve. That said I also agree that the 63 intake looks great and gets rid of that ugly cheap silver plastic MB chose. I'm not sure who made that decision but they must have been blind.
