Has anyone installed the Renntech ECU on their C63?
09-07-2008, 10:06 PM
#26
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I started this thread about Renntech before there were offerings from Kleeman, VRP and MHP.
First, I have read a handful of articles in the major US car magazines that stated that MB's 7speed tranny cannot handle the same torque as the 5speed tranny in the E55. These articles came out at the same time the 6.2l and 7speed tranny replaced the 5.5 supercharged V8 and 5speed tranny. Even Clarkson (never one to go lightly) commented in a segment while driving the CLS55 (with the old 5spd auto) that 'MB has a new 7 speed gearbox but this engine would eat it alive'
My concern, and I think that of many others who might be reluctant to tweak the ECU on a N/A car, is reliability -- not just of the engine but also the tranny/drivetrain.
The tune I am looking for is one that replicates what these engines make in the E63 or CL63. Because we already know the engine and tranny are proven reliable with 517 crank HP and 465 lb-ft. I am not looking for the MOST HP and MOST TQ. That is not where the value is, IMO. The value (for a potential customer like me) is in bringing the C63 up to E/CL63 levels, because that is where I know this engine/tranny/drivetrain are proven, from the factory. A tuner war about who is getting the most HP/TQ only makes me more cautious....
Sorry if I am harshing the buzz but I hope I am not alone in my opinions....
First, I have read a handful of articles in the major US car magazines that stated that MB's 7speed tranny cannot handle the same torque as the 5speed tranny in the E55. These articles came out at the same time the 6.2l and 7speed tranny replaced the 5.5 supercharged V8 and 5speed tranny. Even Clarkson (never one to go lightly) commented in a segment while driving the CLS55 (with the old 5spd auto) that 'MB has a new 7 speed gearbox but this engine would eat it alive'
My concern, and I think that of many others who might be reluctant to tweak the ECU on a N/A car, is reliability -- not just of the engine but also the tranny/drivetrain.
The tune I am looking for is one that replicates what these engines make in the E63 or CL63. Because we already know the engine and tranny are proven reliable with 517 crank HP and 465 lb-ft. I am not looking for the MOST HP and MOST TQ. That is not where the value is, IMO. The value (for a potential customer like me) is in bringing the C63 up to E/CL63 levels, because that is where I know this engine/tranny/drivetrain are proven, from the factory. A tuner war about who is getting the most HP/TQ only makes me more cautious....
Sorry if I am harshing the buzz but I hope I am not alone in my opinions....
The 7As will handle as much tq as you can throw at them with a tuned stock longblock; not even counting the 35% momentary overload they tolerate. If you start talking about H/C, superchargers, etc. it's a different story altogether and we can't get as aggressive especially with the TCM. The positive displacement blown E55s would shred the 7A to pieces, Jeremy was correct, but we also make nowhere near the torque they do, and won't without nitrous, FI or H/C.
Also remember that the changes we make that affect the driveline aren't always detrimental. In fact quicker shifts cause less wear on components in the trans than laggy/sluggish shifts.
I think it's also important to note that MB and other manufacturers have a history of bringing a new powerplant to market in a detuned state so that they can make simple adjustments in the tune to add power (without retooling for a physical change) and extend the length of use of said engine over additional model years.
That being said, if you want less than optimal power, I'm sure we can dial it down for you without any problems at all.
Thanks
Andy
Last edited by MHP; 09-07-2008 at 10:10 PM.
09-07-2008, 10:09 PM
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+1
.. very well put. Right now I am seriously considering Kleeman because DFW dealer also sells them which to me seems to make sense from a long term reliability concern as well, not to mention warranty. Kleemann uses sveral different MB dealers as their sales partners.... not sure what it all means but.... I will take my chances unelss something really convincing comes along.
+1
.. very well put. Right now I am seriously considering Kleeman because DFW dealer also sells them which to me seems to make sense from a long term reliability concern as well, not to mention warranty. Kleemann uses sveral different MB dealers as their sales partners.... not sure what it all means but.... I will take my chances unelss something really convincing comes along.
09-07-2008, 10:12 PM
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+1.. very well put. Right now I am seriously considering Kleeman because DFW dealer also sells them which to me seems to make sense from a long term reliability concern as well, not to mention warranty. Kleemann uses sveral different MB dealers as their sales partners.... not sure what it all means but.... I will take my chances unelss something really convincing comes along.
+1
.. very well put. Right now I am seriously considering Kleeman because DFW dealer also sells them which to me seems to make sense from a long term reliability concern as well, not to mention warranty. Kleemann uses sveral different MB dealers as their sales partners.... not sure what it all means but.... I will take my chances unelss something really convincing comes along. It doesn't take much effort to data log A/F, just a dualband A/F meter. Why they haven't yet done this blows my mind. 
09-07-2008, 10:50 PM
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I am not very familiar with all of the tech know how or terminolgy.... If you were to ask me about an overbored 327 block with a holly carb or hurst shifter etc then maybe i could join in the conversation.... I am not looking to do any ECU tune or other mod until late spring anyways... so I will be reading with curiosity over the next few months. Thanks
09-08-2008, 12:25 AM
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I am looking forward to what you and VRP will be demonstrating shortly.
I am not very familiar with all of the tech know how or terminolgy.... If you were to ask me about an overbored 327 block with a holly carb or hurst shifter etc then maybe i could join in the conversation.... I am not looking to do any ECU tune or other mod until late spring anyways... so I will be reading with curiosity over the next few months. Thanks
I am not very familiar with all of the tech know how or terminolgy.... If you were to ask me about an overbored 327 block with a holly carb or hurst shifter etc then maybe i could join in the conversation.... I am not looking to do any ECU tune or other mod until late spring anyways... so I will be reading with curiosity over the next few months. Thanks
Thanks
Andy
09-08-2008, 12:32 AM
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Just read this thread before doing business with MHP. I have heard from others as well that he is a fake and is actually just doing work for someone else.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/259084-mhp-amg-63-thermalnators.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/259084-mhp-amg-63-thermalnators.html
Last edited by MB Fanatic; 09-08-2008 at 12:43 AM.
09-08-2008, 12:52 AM
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Just read this thread before doing business with MHP. I have heard from others as well that he is a fake and is actually just doing work for someone else.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=259084
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=259084
I have no problem with you letting it be known I don't take **** from internet cheerleaders, but do not for a second begin to call me a "fake" or anything else remotely associated with the word. That is libel and I will not tolerate it.
You obviously have personal issues with me and your attempt to blatantly post ridiculously false information about me is nothing but juvenile--even more so than your repetitive name calling in the linked thread.
Further posts like the one quoted above will result in legal action.
Last edited by MHP; 09-08-2008 at 01:00 AM.
09-08-2008, 12:59 AM
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Perhaps fake was a bit too much, but i have read elsewhere that you work for someone else? Care to clarify that position?
I do apologize for the previous comment though.
I do apologize for the previous comment though.
09-08-2008, 01:04 AM
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As I have nothing to hide (I posted this info in the linked thread as well) my lead tuner is Dave Kasper, and my engine builder is Al Papitto. I don't mind posting this info because we are contractually obligated to each other in such a way that you'll never deal directly with either of them. They are among the best in the world at what they do, which is specifically why I use them for their services.
I've tuned for years using SCT/Diablo software, and I've also built engines/transmissions, however I'm not as good as either in their own specialties. My ego isn't nearly large enough to let that get in the way of delivering the best possible products which is why I have no problem allowing the credit to go where it's deserved.
09-08-2008, 01:05 AM
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09-08-2008, 04:33 PM
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wow. that storm over...
Andy, is the TCU a seperate controller box or just a subroutine in the ECU? As you and I discussed, I'll want to skunkworks the project by running a clone ECU and keep the factory one in the closet. Will I need a TCU box or not to take full advantage?
cheers.
Andy, is the TCU a seperate controller box or just a subroutine in the ECU? As you and I discussed, I'll want to skunkworks the project by running a clone ECU and keep the factory one in the closet. Will I need a TCU box or not to take full advantage?
cheers.
09-08-2008, 06:26 PM
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wow. that storm over...
Andy, is the TCU a seperate controller box or just a subroutine in the ECU? As you and I discussed, I'll want to skunkworks the project by running a clone ECU and keep the factory one in the closet. Will I need a TCU box or not to take full advantage?
cheers.
Andy, is the TCU a seperate controller box or just a subroutine in the ECU? As you and I discussed, I'll want to skunkworks the project by running a clone ECU and keep the factory one in the closet. Will I need a TCU box or not to take full advantage?
cheers.
Just got home and will respond to your PM later tonight, sorry it's been a busy week!
TCU is housed in the trans valvebody, ECU is seperate and is located on the passenger's side firewall under the hood. ECU + TCU is definitely the way to go, but you will notice a HUGE difference doing just one or the other.
Thanks
Andy
09-09-2008, 11:00 PM
#38
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talked to my dealer today, anything brabus or renntech they will not give a hard time on the warranty, and they will put it in writing... anything else though they said no way
09-09-2008, 11:23 PM
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09-09-2008, 11:25 PM
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The bottom line is find another dealer.
09-09-2008, 11:27 PM
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You also have the option of buying spare ECU/TCUs and simply swapping out to the stock pieces if a warranty related issue occurs. You could easily save thousands by not going with Renntech/Brabus, having us tune both control units and buying spares to swap out.
09-09-2008, 11:57 PM
#42
I think the problem is having you around to install the TCU should a problem occur. The description of its location sounded like a PITA.
09-10-2008, 12:14 AM
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I'll have a step by step install with both pics and text up on the site soon. The ECU is cake, the TCU really isn't that bad either. Worst case scenario any decent (read non on the job MB tech) mechanic can absolutely do it for you.
09-10-2008, 10:10 AM
#44
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Probably because Brabus/Renntech tuning doesn't add enough power to make anyone worry lol. The fact that they're attempting to differentiate between different aftermarket tuners (keyword being "aftermarket") is hilarious. Their position would never hold up in court, if a warranty related issue would ever get so far.
The bottom line is find another dealer.
The bottom line is find another dealer.
I am not bashing you in any way, I am just trying to give my opinion of why not every customer will see things the same way that you do. I for one do not as well, but this is a big ocean, with lot's of fish in it and there are enough Mercedes Benz owners with aspirations to go faster that everyone can have a piece of the pie. You will find plenty of customers that believe in the same philosophy as yourself but, do yourself a favor though and don't alienate the ones that do not.
09-10-2008, 12:16 PM
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I would think that it is probably Brabus and Renntech that they trust did enough R&D where they are comfortable enough selling or maintaining cars that are using those products. I am sorry but I do not think that MHP is going to offer the dealers the same level of security. I think that most Mercedes Benz customers would rather spend extra money on a more tried and tested product. I have also read in some of your other posts about tuners not testing for a/f ratio. I love the fact that the one thing everyone pays attention to in a tune is the a/f ratio and once they have that number right everything else is perfect. I have personally witnessed dyno testing at the manufacturers level and can tell you that the a/f ratio is a very small (almost non-existent) test that they perform.
We stand behind every product we sell, and have always had the same policy. As for the R&D comment, I'll let our results speak for themselves.
I am not bashing you in any way, I am just trying to give my opinion of why not every customer will see things the same way that you do. I for one do not as well, but this is a big ocean, with lot's of fish in it and there are enough Mercedes Benz owners with aspirations to go faster that everyone can have a piece of the pie. You will find plenty of customers that believe in the same philosophy as yourself but, do yourself a favor though and don't alienate the ones that do not.
I understand your argument but it would seem to weigh heavily on the shoulders of the big name companies actually doing their homework. IMO, they don't or at least don't do enough of it. We offer a higher level of performance with the same customer service (or better) that you'll find at Renntech, etc.
The only thing we don't have (yet) is a big name. I can live with being the little guy whose products actually deliver on what's promised.
Thanks
Andy
09-10-2008, 07:32 PM
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Probably because Brabus/Renntech tuning doesn't add enough power to make anyone worry lol. The fact that they're attempting to differentiate between different aftermarket tuners (keyword being "aftermarket") is hilarious. Their position would never hold up in court, if a warranty related issue would ever get so far.
The bottom line is find another dealer.
The bottom line is find another dealer.
I am sorry I have to disagree with everything you stated, the dealership has always accommodated my needs and those of my friends. I talked to the Service Director and their lead tech, they stated that Brabus sent a guy out to service one of their vehicles at no charge and that Brabus and Renntech will be here long after any guy with some software... they see it all the time they said, people ooh and ahh because they save a nickle then 2 years later the company is no where to be found. I'll do some more research but I am leaning towards Brabus.
and how the hell can you even say anything after the Brabus Rocket? seriously! because I am confused
09-10-2008, 07:35 PM
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09-10-2008, 07:45 PM
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07 RS4 sold, R53 Cooper S, 2008 Cayman S, 2012 GTR
Where did you have the ECU flashed? Somewhere in LA? I'm also looking to do this, I'm in San Diego.
Also, I went to the HRE open house today and talked to a guy with a CLK63 black series. He had the Renntech ECU upgrade and headers + exhaust. He said the he loves the upgrade, no problems and I have to say the exhaust sounded even better than stock.
Only problem is that he paid about $10k
for the upgrades. I checked on the Renntech website and for the C63 it's about $9.5k if you do the full upgrade. Not sure if it's worth that much, but it will get HP to 525 and TQ to 495. I'd really like to see some dyno sheets on this before I pay that kind of cash.
Also, I went to the HRE open house today and talked to a guy with a CLK63 black series. He had the Renntech ECU upgrade and headers + exhaust. He said the he loves the upgrade, no problems and I have to say the exhaust sounded even better than stock.
Only problem is that he paid about $10k
for the upgrades. I checked on the Renntech website and for the C63 it's about $9.5k if you do the full upgrade. Not sure if it's worth that much, but it will get HP to 525 and TQ to 495. I'd really like to see some dyno sheets on this before I pay that kind of cash.If you would like to get your C63 flashed, please let me know. We are your san Diego RENNtech dealer. If you need more information about us, you can contact Ken Rudy the West Coast rep for RENNtech if you are concerned about us.
We do however have all of the equipment to flash your C63 in house, with no down time other then a few hours for RENNtech to return the file back to us.
James
09-10-2008, 10:23 PM
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I am sorry I have to disagree with everything you stated, the dealership has always accommodated my needs and those of my friends. I talked to the Service Director and their lead tech, they stated that Brabus sent a guy out to service one of their vehicles at no charge and that Brabus and Renntech will be here long after any guy with some software... they see it all the time they said, people ooh and ahh because they save a nickle then 2 years later the company is no where to be found. I'll do some more research but I am leaning towards Brabus.
and how the hell can you even say anything after the Brabus Rocket? seriously! because I am confused
09-10-2008, 10:25 PM
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As for the MB Tech comment, you do realize that they are human beings and sometimes like to make $ afterhours?
I have a few MB tech friends that do such work all the time. Some of them even work for aftermarket shops
