Kleemann ECU Tune Results
08-14-2008, 09:01 PM
#27
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'09 C63 AMG
The C63 is rated at 451 from MB. My car dynoed a max of 380 rwhp. My driveline loss I have always used on late model automatics is 18%. Divide 380 by .82 and you get 463 or within a couple of HP of the factory rating. Take the peak made with the Kleemann tune of 424 rwhp, divide that by .82 and you get 517 rating at the crank.
E63, any chance you can do some A/F and WOT advance logging? My dual band goes in next Mon/Tues so I'll have some baseline A/F data for the stock tune.
Thanks
08-14-2008, 10:03 PM
#28
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How much is a replacement ECU ? The reason I ask, is that while sending your chip to Kleeman for flashing is only a 48hour process .. it would be quite nice to have both a flash + unflashed version in case I needed to go to MB briefly without having to send ECUs back + forth.
BTW, I was also worried that since my car seems to make about 40 more rwhp than other people's stock cars, I was concerned that a "flash" back to stock might actually make me much worse off than the program I'm running now. (of course, turns out my extra hp might just be due to the nicer summer conditions I run in up here in New England...)
And apparently with AMG cars, they may switch the program for each "batch" of cars. So many stock cars may have slightly different variations pm everything in the ECU. Again, this is all second hand from talking to Cory.
keep us posted on how it goes.
08-15-2008, 10:19 PM
#31
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I don't buy for a minute that Kleeman (and others) are putting on parasitic ROMs (for lack of a better description) in this day and age. They must be flashing code - even if not through the OBDII port.
As for spare ECU - that's what I'm waiting for. How would one clone the VIN and other info into the ECU though?
Next, although your ECU is insured in shipping - how the heck do you explain that it's lost to your dealer? bzzz, you were screwing with it, we'll flag your file now.
And as for that statement about dealers not voiding warranties for mod'd ECUs - that's drunken day dreaming at its finest. BMW has been killing warranties for modded ECUs for about a year now - there are a handful of ranting threads about it. I did a ton of research on the 335 turbo piggyback situation before I ended up with a 63.
It's only a matter of time before benz does the same.
As for spare ECU - that's what I'm waiting for. How would one clone the VIN and other info into the ECU though?
Next, although your ECU is insured in shipping - how the heck do you explain that it's lost to your dealer? bzzz, you were screwing with it, we'll flag your file now.
And as for that statement about dealers not voiding warranties for mod'd ECUs - that's drunken day dreaming at its finest. BMW has been killing warranties for modded ECUs for about a year now - there are a handful of ranting threads about it. I did a ton of research on the 335 turbo piggyback situation before I ended up with a 63.
It's only a matter of time before benz does the same.
08-15-2008, 11:40 PM
#32
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EuroCharged 2012 C63 BS Coupè
Cory told me roughly 90 lb/ft. of torque gain with the ECU and Headers. I would guess at about 55/60 with just the ECU
My Overnight FedEx box is addressed to Cory and ready to go once my car arrives and I get a few days driving on it........
My Overnight FedEx box is addressed to Cory and ready to go once my car arrives and I get a few days driving on it........
08-16-2008, 12:39 AM
#33
Super Member
Did the idle and morning startup characteristics of the car stay the same with the ECU tune?
Also, out of curiosity, I'm assuming the speed limiter is removed?
Lastly, do you happen to know if one decided to add the Kleeman headers & downpipes later, would the ECU need to be resent to them for a retune?
Thanks.
Also, out of curiosity, I'm assuming the speed limiter is removed?
Lastly, do you happen to know if one decided to add the Kleeman headers & downpipes later, would the ECU need to be resent to them for a retune?
Thanks.
08-16-2008, 02:56 AM
#34
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I would just specify the ROM with headers & downpipes so that you wont have to get a retune. This is a N/A motor and at most, will only be a little off (rich) on the tune.
08-16-2008, 05:05 AM
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'09 C63 AMG
I don't buy for a minute that Kleeman (and others) are putting on parasitic ROMs (for lack of a better description) in this day and age. They must be flashing code - even if not through the OBDII port.
As for spare ECU - that's what I'm waiting for. How would one clone the VIN and other info into the ECU though?
Next, although your ECU is insured in shipping - how the heck do you explain that it's lost to your dealer? bzzz, you were screwing with it, we'll flag your file now.
And as for that statement about dealers not voiding warranties for mod'd ECUs - that's drunken day dreaming at its finest. BMW has been killing warranties for modded ECUs for about a year now - there are a handful of ranting threads about it. I did a ton of research on the 335 turbo piggyback situation before I ended up with a 63.
It's only a matter of time before benz does the same.
As for spare ECU - that's what I'm waiting for. How would one clone the VIN and other info into the ECU though?
Next, although your ECU is insured in shipping - how the heck do you explain that it's lost to your dealer? bzzz, you were screwing with it, we'll flag your file now.
And as for that statement about dealers not voiding warranties for mod'd ECUs - that's drunken day dreaming at its finest. BMW has been killing warranties for modded ECUs for about a year now - there are a handful of ranting threads about it. I did a ton of research on the 335 turbo piggyback situation before I ended up with a 63.
It's only a matter of time before benz does the same.
08-16-2008, 06:38 AM
#36
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Steel Gray 09' C63 AMG
Thanks for the Torque numbers. I guess I will call Cory and as him if Kleemann will be at the SEMA show come Nov. in Las Vegas, NV. By that time I should be able to pick up some printed info on the subject.
-Troy
08-16-2008, 09:04 AM
#37
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2006 BMW 330i, 2009 C63
I am really interested in this Kleemann ECU flash. But I have some questions, I hope you guys can answer.
1. I live in Canada can I still send the ECU to Jason?
2. We have Kleemann authorized dealers in Canada, are all dealers created equal?
3. Where can I buy a spare ECU? so I can drive the car when my ecu is being upgraded.
Sorry if these questions are stupid, but I am new to the upgrade thing and to performance cars in general.
Thank you,
George
1. I live in Canada can I still send the ECU to Jason?
2. We have Kleemann authorized dealers in Canada, are all dealers created equal?
3. Where can I buy a spare ECU? so I can drive the car when my ecu is being upgraded.
Sorry if these questions are stupid, but I am new to the upgrade thing and to performance cars in general.
Thank you,
George
08-16-2008, 03:52 PM
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'09 C63 AMG
We will also modify part thorttle parameters not just copy stock tables like others, as that's where most people spend the majority of their time driving. Should feel like a completely different ride. Wonder if we can get it to chirp the 2-3?
08-16-2008, 05:22 PM
#41
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Someone set me straight.
08-16-2008, 07:36 PM
#42
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You say you have spare ECUs and can patch in the VIN number etc. what is your price for that ?
On a separate note, I'd be surprised (indeed amazed) to see a gain of 90lbft of torque on a 55bhp gain. Since power is a function of torque * rpm intersecting at 5252rpm, then if my arithmetic is correct, and max power is at 6800rpm then torque would be increased by 5252/6800 * 55bhp .. which is 42lb/ft.
Last edited by exiges; 08-17-2008 at 09:12 AM.
08-16-2008, 09:22 PM
#43
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2009 C63 AMG Black on Black PP Package CF fully loaded
I'm confused again.. I thought the C63 engine was just a few degrees retarded in it's timing, rather than having the throttle parameters different to the S/CL/CLK63 .. no ? Are you a Kleeman distributor or another tuner?
You say you have spare ECUs and can patch in the VIN number etc. what is your price for that ?
On a separate note, I'd be surprised to see a gain of 90lbft of torque on a 55bhp gain, if my arithmetic is correct, and max power is at 6800rpm then torque would be increased by 5252/6800 * 55bhp .. which is 42lb/ft
You say you have spare ECUs and can patch in the VIN number etc. what is your price for that ?
On a separate note, I'd be surprised to see a gain of 90lbft of torque on a 55bhp gain, if my arithmetic is correct, and max power is at 6800rpm then torque would be increased by 5252/6800 * 55bhp .. which is 42lb/ft
08-17-2008, 02:24 AM
#44
Guys call L.E.T they will be offering tunes for the 6.3 engine in the near future and probably at a lower price so if you are patient then wait for L.E.T to finish a thouroughly tested tune for you all with the 6.3 engines...
08-17-2008, 03:55 AM
#45
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'09 C63 AMG
You say you have spare ECUs and can patch in the VIN number etc. what is your price for that ?
Thanks
Andy
08-21-2008, 01:15 PM
#46
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Let me preface this my saying I don't know much about tuning! but claiming 90 or even 55lb/ft over stock, when the SL63 is only putting out (claimed) 20 lb/ft (465) over the C63's 443 lb/ft tells me the C63 is already close to max torque levels for the engine/tranny and there isn't much to be gained (or desired IMO) by tuning. Could that figure be a wild guess maybe? Because with that much torque you are getting closer to E55 torque levels, and that car required the 5 speed auto to handle the torque....
Someone set me straight.
Someone set me straight.
Headers could increase torque over the best baselines of the stronger stock 63s.
Still, 90lbs seems unlikely in any scenario without FI.
08-21-2008, 03:19 PM
#47
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
C63 Kleemann ECU
Congrats, these are very good numbers... 
How's the car been running so far? Have you noticed any changes on idle? On Full Throttle? How about sound differences?
How's the car been running so far? Have you noticed any changes on idle? On Full Throttle? How about sound differences?
08-22-2008, 02:46 AM
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997TT, C63(delivered what a car!) ,M3 , WRX , A3
Hi all,
First let me tell you that I have had my C63 since late April and current have about 1500 miles on the car. It has been back to the dealer for the 1000 mile service and all checked out good. I have been on the Dyno (Dynojet) twice with this car stock and it produced consistently within 3 rwhp of each of the runs. Max #'s stock on each date were 380 rwhp and 377 rwhp.
After wanting to get my PCM tuned for a while now, I researched as much as I could on it from tuners within the continental U.S. to those overseas. I know VRP has been working on theirs with Powerchip for a while now, I chose not to go with Powerchip as the results they produced on my '07 E63 where zero. My car dyno'd exactly the same after the tune as it did before. $2K down the drain...
I was going to choose Renntech to tune the PCM but I could not digest the prices they charge to tune a PCM ($3500.!). Why offer 2 stages? Just maximize the PCM and charge a reasonable price.
I then began communication with Cory over at Kleemann USA. First rate guy with very quick responses to all my quetions via e-mail. Cory said they had results for the PCM in other C63's but only with additional mods. My car is completely stock including the charcoal filters. I decided to give it a shot with Cory (Kleemann) and sent my PCM (very easy to remove) to them overnight. I received it back overnight 2 days later and immediately put it back in the car. I drove it around for a day not really hammering on the car too much as there was a lot of traffic here (Houston). I then drove it to the dyno the next day and the first run out of the box was 424.4 RWHP at around 7100 RPM. The same RPM interval stock was 369 rwhp. This is a 55 RWHP gain at 7100 RPM! That is now 517 engine flywheel HP!
You really feel a huge difference in the mid and top of the RPM range. I took it out on the freeway and going full throttle from any speed is amazingly faster! Especially going from a 70 mph roll, the car just flies!
Bottom line is, if you own a C63 and want a professional PCM tune performed at a VERY fair price ($1495.), get that PCM out of your car and over to Cory now! This is one of the best tuning experiences I have ever had and I've had a LOT of them!
Dyno graph attached!
First let me tell you that I have had my C63 since late April and current have about 1500 miles on the car. It has been back to the dealer for the 1000 mile service and all checked out good. I have been on the Dyno (Dynojet) twice with this car stock and it produced consistently within 3 rwhp of each of the runs. Max #'s stock on each date were 380 rwhp and 377 rwhp.
After wanting to get my PCM tuned for a while now, I researched as much as I could on it from tuners within the continental U.S. to those overseas. I know VRP has been working on theirs with Powerchip for a while now, I chose not to go with Powerchip as the results they produced on my '07 E63 where zero. My car dyno'd exactly the same after the tune as it did before. $2K down the drain...
I was going to choose Renntech to tune the PCM but I could not digest the prices they charge to tune a PCM ($3500.!). Why offer 2 stages? Just maximize the PCM and charge a reasonable price.
I then began communication with Cory over at Kleemann USA. First rate guy with very quick responses to all my quetions via e-mail. Cory said they had results for the PCM in other C63's but only with additional mods. My car is completely stock including the charcoal filters. I decided to give it a shot with Cory (Kleemann) and sent my PCM (very easy to remove) to them overnight. I received it back overnight 2 days later and immediately put it back in the car. I drove it around for a day not really hammering on the car too much as there was a lot of traffic here (Houston). I then drove it to the dyno the next day and the first run out of the box was 424.4 RWHP at around 7100 RPM. The same RPM interval stock was 369 rwhp. This is a 55 RWHP gain at 7100 RPM! That is now 517 engine flywheel HP!
You really feel a huge difference in the mid and top of the RPM range. I took it out on the freeway and going full throttle from any speed is amazingly faster! Especially going from a 70 mph roll, the car just flies!
Bottom line is, if you own a C63 and want a professional PCM tune performed at a VERY fair price ($1495.), get that PCM out of your car and over to Cory now! This is one of the best tuning experiences I have ever had and I've had a LOT of them!
Dyno graph attached!
that GREAT! the cars is STILL LINEAR like STOCK?
what about the MPG!?!? increase so much the MPG? or keeps at the same level...?
08-23-2008, 02:30 PM
#49
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'05 C55
The drivability and start up are exactly the same as stock. Idle is also unchanged. The car is running great and more how I expected it to run from the factory. I haven't noticed a mileage change as I don't drive the car everyday. I know other people are hijacking my thread about my Kleemann tune experience but I can tell you with 100% certainty that you will not regret the Kleemann tune that comes from a very professional organization.
