Just got back from the dyno. The runs posted below are 5th gear (1:1) SAE corrected, hood down, using the same dynojet I always use. I made one pull in 4th gear after and made 433rwhp/383rwtq (+6rwhp and -10rwtq over 5th gear).

427rwhp/394rwtq SAE (Using 17.5% DT loss that's 518hp/478tq @ the flywheel, using 20% DT loss 534hp/493tq):



Compared to stock (sorry no TQ #s for stock since we had to splice into the coil pack wiring today to get the wire isolated, there will be TQ #s from here on out):



As far as I know our V1 tuning just beat every other C63 ECU reflash on the market, and the best part is A/F actually dipped into the 11s at 5800rpm meaning there's an easy 15-18rwhp (a tad more timing in v2 as well) left in the car in a SAFE revision.

For frame of reference look at Rentech's results in 4th gear (producing higher #s than 5th):



Using my 5th gear numbers we're making 33rwtq SAE (counting the 10rwtq I lost going from 4th v 5th gear dynos that's 23rwtq SAE actual) and 15rwhp SAE (counting the +6rwhp loss I saw going from 4th to 5th that's 21rwhp SAE actual), and again we have another 15-18rw coming in v2.
Using my 4th gear numbers (direct comparison) we're up 20rwhp/23rwtq SAE on them.


Finally, me running a 2700lb cam'd LS1/RX7 on the way home, the owner who lives less than a mile from me says it traps 115-116 N/A (how we ran today). He jumped out 1 car from a 20 roll before I hit it.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilxsELYazbw


So again, I'm calling it right now. We'll be at ~440rw SAE in 5th gear on a DJ with v2, and we should also breach 400rwtq SAE as well with just filters/tuning on a 2400 mile C63.

Renntech, Kleeman, Brabus, whoever, I'll make the offer to run against a similarly modded car of yours ANY day.

Thanks
Andy

Total noob question:

It looks like your tune really separates itself from stock only after 125mph+. The Renntech on the other hand seems to have more power all the way through.

Is this true?

More specifically, why is your X axis MPH vs. RPM?

No, what you're seeing is that the majority of the gains come from 5000rpm on up on any 63 related tune simply because MB kills timing at that rpm+. When racing you're only below 5000rpm in 1st gear, after that all shifts fall back to or above that point.
V2 which is going in late this week or early next week (testing next Friday at the latest) entails some A/F tweaks and additional timing to boost power across the board--also bumping shift points 200rpm. Again 440/400rw SAE appears to be attainable on a green car.
Keep in mind we're absolutely smoking Renntech across the board in the tq dept. 20rwtq+ (20rwhp as well) is a huge difference from an essentially stock (filters only) motor and readily displays the difference in tuning ability. The more mods we add (ie headers, exhaust, CAIs) the larger the already sizable difference between our tunes will grow.

Thanks
Andy

Just how it was saved. Let me switch it to rpm.

Give me a minute.

Thanks

v Renntech (also notice how low their base numbers are compared to ours...)

Going over the graphs,

Notice that we make 350rwtq+ from 3000-6400rpm

Renntech makes 350rwtq from 3500-6000rpm.


We make 400rwhp from 5450+

Renntech makes 400rwhp from 6000+.


We make 350rwhp from 4700rpm+

Renntech makes 350rw from 5000rpm+.


These are HUGE differences.

Nice to be able to see the results "side by side" so to speak. You mentioned the gains are all 5000+ RPM - are there any real gains in the 2-5k RPM range (HP or torque)? One of my concerns is that I drive at 5k RPM or above less than 10% of the time.

No there are definitely gains (even more in V2) right now. Check out post #7, I edited in more data.

Thanks!

very very nice. keep up the good work, when you ganna have dyno sheets for v2.

Why did the rev limiter kick in there instead of 7,000 or 7,400?

Strange that your tune appears to make no more power than stock until 130mph above, but more than the Renntech tune across the board (which oddly enough shows gains over their stock across the board).

It looks like your base car makes 20hp more than the base Renntech car which translated into your tune gains. Though I admit the differing graphs are just a bit confusing given the varying rpm/speed bases.

Not trying to be a hater, but your differences could be the differences in the dyno.

BTW, I'm more excited about your transmission tuning (easily the most frustrating aspect of the car). What would be interesting is a dyno graph showing stock vs your tune through the first 4 or 5 gears. Could see the power differences plus the shift gains.

Regards,

Ron

"BTW, I'm more excited about your transmission tuning (easily the most frustrating aspect of the car). What would be interesting is a dyno graph showing stock vs your tune through the first 4 or 5 gears. Could see the power differences plus the shift gains." -Ron Scarboro

I two would like to see gains from the trans tune not so muck the engine tune. The car makes lots of power stock we all know that. I think my goal is to "fine tune" all the other aspects of the car.

Over all, great job, keep tuning. It is always good to see new blood taking a fresh look at things.

-Troy

I posted above that the operator (I was watching A/Fs not operating) didn't want to slam it off the limiter. Netting solid A/Fs was more important to me than doing it all myself and risking the chance of missing something. Next time I'll be slamming the gas myself.

It's an old trick (and everyone that has a shop knows this) to attempt to make baseline numbers look as low as possible in order to show greater gains post tune/part install, whatever. Hence the "" above their graph. It's by far the lowest dyno and is way beyond normal variance. All 4 stock DJ dyno's I've seen for stock cars have been 373-378rwhp SAE.
What's important in the comparison is the difference in post tune numbers. We're clobbering Renntech with 20rwhp/20rwtq gains on a basically stock car--mine has just 2400 miles on it. That's a huge difference.


Not when we're talking about the kind of gains and disparities we're seeing.

A dyno graph showing a stock tune vs. MHPs tune through the first 4 or 5 gears?

That's why we run at the track. We went from 12.89@111.5 on street tires with just drop-in K&Ns to 12.19@116.5 on DRs (that hurt trap speed), and I only got to make 1 pass in the car since tuning.

Honestly, simulated 1/4 mile runs done on a dyno are pure BS. The numbers are always far from accurate.

Thanks
Andy

Troy,
The car makes 376rw stock, we just hit 427rw (51rw at peak, not just 7100rpm) and we will hit 440rw with just tuning. We're also up around 25rwtq over stock and will be over 30rwtq gained with v2. Those kinds of gains on a stock motor are pretty much unheard of.
Again what's depressing is that unless you actually drive my car or one with MHP driveline tuning you'll never realize the changes we make in drivability, part throttle acceleration, WOT/part throttle gear changes etc. Those kinds of things don't show up on dyno graphs or track results, they shine when you get seat time.
Because of the way 63s are setup (different than 55/65s) we'll only always offer both engine/trans tuning together. Again though to be honest, it boggles me that we just made more power than any other tuner, are the only ones testing our product at the track and dyno, on the street against other known cars (whose owners agree to our race results), providing customers with speedo/tach vids, and have more on the way in v2 yet just more questions and hoops to jump through...

Well, you're the "new kid on the block" (so to speak), so this is to be expected.

That said, keep up the good work...and I'll be watching MHP's progress very closely.

I realize that. Sorry guys just a bit frustrated today. I appreciate the comments. In time we will earn your respect.

Thanks
Andy

In looking at the files...
Your tune makes 350whp @ 4,750rpm
Your stock car makes that same 350whp @ 4,750rpm (127mph?)

Renntech tune makes 320whp @ 4,750rpm
Their stock car makes 295whp @ 4,750rpm

My confusion stems from your stock car making 30whp more than the Renntech tune at the same rpm. Hence my suggestion that the dyno may be playing a big part in the differences if you suppose they also made no gains before 4,750.

A skeptic could say that 30whp is all dyno calibration and that their tune makes 442whp on your dyno. Though I have seen 5% variances in dyno's routinely, 8%-10% would be rare.

As for the gear runs on a dyno, we'll have to agree to disagree. In bike tuning (the majority of my experience) we routinely made runs through the gears (primarily to check the fuel mixture as a bike will make more power after 2 or 3 gear changes if you're too rich on the bottom). With time on the x-axis and hp on the y-axis you can measure the shift difference. I know because we used to raz each other on how fast we could shift the bikes.

Regards,



Ron

Ron, what I was trying to convey is the fact that no legimate stock C63 dynos as low as the Renntech car--I'm basing this off my DJ dyno and 3 other DJ dynos from non affiliated entities. Maybe on an wrongly cal'd eddy current dyno but not on a Dynojet with SAE correction and smoothing set at 5. It sounds like you've spent some time on the dyno so you know how easy it is to manipulate #s to make results look better than they actually are.
I've already stated multiple times I'll run anyone else's tuned C63 against mine any day and I'm willing to do some driving to get there if need be.

Thanks
Andy

Hey Andy,

You've mentioned this a couple of times as a source of frustration. I don't know if you've tried this before, but maybe you should consider some "marketing / test mules" in the various markets you think are hot. By that I mean tuned customer cars that are available for other potential customers to drive / ride in. An incentive would be getting a tune at/near cost. The potential negatives are a) legal contract to compel them to comply after they get the tune, b) liability, c) risk of the car no longer being available (move, trade, wreck). It seems like aside from the liability question (there may be none if they are not a contracted agent), there's not a lot of downside for you.

Already done it. Just waiting for more results to come back in. Unfortunately two of the three 63 testers are down doing other mods so it may be a few weeks which is why I'm currently looking for an E63 "tester". I use that term loosely because we don't test on other peoples cars (which is why I bought the C63) you'd be running the same tune that we've already tested and proven--with a few upgrades.

In the next few days a few more mbworld members will have the chance to drive the car and I'm sure they'll report their findings asap.



Thanks
Andy

Well - I for one can't wait to get this in mine and will do some pulls on the local hamster wheel for comparison. Keep up the great work Andy!

P

Do you have someone in the Southeast?