myblkc63

OK, I need some help deciding between Headers and Rotors.

Here is my current thinking. Please let me know your thoughts.

Headers:
Headers cost around $4,495 and you get about a 20-25 HP gain (I think).

Rotors:
Rotors cost around $2699.
6 lbs savings X 2 for the fronts
7 lbs savings X 2 for the rears
total weight savings = 26 lbs

26 X 10 (static weight conversion rule of thumb) = 260 lbs
260 lbs divided by 6 (horsepower conversion rule of thumb) = 43 HP Gain!

So in theory the Rotors would give me a 43 HP gain in addition to reduced breaking distance and the nice look of the two piece vs a 20 HP gain for the Headers and a better sound.

OK, someone please help me confirm these numbers or set me straight.

myblkc63

Crap make that Headers coust around $2495

nrgy

Well to start only the rear rotors would free up any HP since these are the drive wheels, and the general consensus seems to be on the drive wheels 1 lbs saved = 1 hp. However, since the weight being saved is so close to the hub the gains made will be even less. I still think it's a great mod to do, and one which I plan to do here soon, but I would be VERY happy if this mod freed up 10hp.

e1000

I think your math is correct in theory, but probably won't pan out in real life. As said earlier, brake rotors are fairly close to the hub and therefore won't give you as big of an advantage as shaving weight from a wheel or tire.

Also, the 2-piece floating rotors will not affect stopping distances at all.

tanktube67

Headers

yooker

I vote rotors, less unsprung weight!

C63 Guy

Yep, I agree. But it really depends on what you're looking for... I don't think either of these mods are real horsepower boosting mods. They're driving enhancement mods. Do you want your car to sound better or to handle better?

Shorty headers (the only ones you'll find for under $4k) aren't going to make 20-25hp. Maybe 5-10. On a good day. They'll sound effing great, and improve midrange response, but they don't really make much extra power. You have to do more to the exhaust to get any real gains from the headers.

Rotors, however, do make a big difference in the way the car drives. I did both fronts and rears. While the acceleration might not be greatly improved, the reduced unsprung mass means the suspension has to work much less hard, so the car sticks better in turns and under acceleration, too. You can really feel it when you're pushing the car. If you like driving in the twisties, this is a great upgrade.

I did the rears, then the fronts a bit later, and each was noticeable in the way it improved the car's handling. Doing both at once? Fuggitaboutit. You win.

Plus, let's face the truth, sometimes mods are about showing your friends what's up, and rotors are something you can show off to friends without putting the car on a lift. And they look so very hot hiding back behind the wheels...

Josh

myblkc63

Excellent feedback. Keep it coming.

I'm an old EVO guy and the handling on this thing scares me so I am leaning toward the Rotors if they do indeed improve the handling even if only slightly.

OPM GT3

I have both, go with the headers.

myblkc63

Decided to go with the Rotors since I am doing rims, tires and suspension at the moment. Figured I would stay in the handling area then move to power later.

Going with the ones from Evosport. Simon has been great. I plan to go pick them up at the end of the week.

Thanks to all for your feedback.

Autoscope

Headers! It will make you drive harder which will wear out your rotors faster, then you upgrade!!!

C63 Guy

Oooooh, what rims and tires, what rims and tires?!?! (impatient bouncing in chair)

I recently did the rotor/rim/tire trifecta and they really do change the demeanor of the car pretty drastically. Good choice.

Josh

myblkc63

I am getting the KW V3's, 19' HRE M49's in Black Crome and Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 (235-35-19 front, 275-30-19 rear). Add to that the new rotors all the way around saving 6lbs each on the front and 7 lbs each on the back and I should have a nice result.

I figured, as it looks like you did, that doing all at the same time would give me a much bigger result. You know 5% better with this and 4% better with that and 15% better with that and you end up with a nice big percentage improvement that should be more noticable.

C63 Guy

Exactly. And by the way, OMFG, those rims are so very sexy in black chrome! I was thinking about the M49s, too, because they look like a better/lighter version of the factory 19s, but we were trying to go as big/light as possible with the hoops & rubber, and the guys at HRE said no 10" wide rear monoblocks for the C63. So I ended up with the Comp97s. Not sad at all.

Josh

myblkc63

The comp 97's look sick and I am sure they are far lighter than the mono's. Do you have a pic with them on your car?

myblkc63

Ok, I just got off the phone with the guy at the shop and I am devistated. I can not get that rim in a 19/9.5 it only comes in 19/9 and 19/10. A 19/10 will not fit on the car so that means if I really want that rim I will have to get the 19/9 which means I can not get 275's as I will need a 265/30/19 and guess what Bridgestone does not make the RE-11 in that size. URGH...

So if i really want that tire, I can not get that rim and if I really want that rim, I can not get that tire or any tire at 275 for that matter. URGH....

I looked at all the rims in the COMP series but don't really like the step lip and the R series is not really lighter in most cases heaver than the MonoBlock so I am going to stick with the M49 and give up the dream of a 275.

Now I have to make up for the reduced tire width with a stickier tire. So out with the RE-11 which wont fit now anyway and in with the Toyo Proxes R888. I really hope I made the right decision. I really loved those rims and just hope that a 265 R888 is better than a 275 RE-11.

myblkc63

C63 Guy,

What size did you go with? Were you able to get 20's or did you go with 19's? I am really struggling with not being able to put 275's on my car if I go with the M49.

This sucks. I had already done the research and made up my mind. Apparently I didn't do it good enough though.

BerBer63

i have 275s on my 19x9s, I don't get what the problem is?

myblkc63

Humm. I just talked to the shop and they said they would fit but that it would not be optimal and that a 265 would fit better and therefore perform better. They said I would actually get less performance out of the 275 as it would not be properly stretched and fitted to the rim.

Tires and rims are definately not my speciality so any feedback is greatly appreciated.

nrgy

Not to confuse issues even more...but I thought they did make a 265/19 tire for the RE-11s, which I know wasn't available with the RE01Rs. I thought I saw on TireRack 265/35/19 listed for the RE-11s.

C63 Guy

Here's the thread with the pics...

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/289162-win.html

I think they're about 3# a piece lighter than the monos. Not a major difference, but a) I LOVE titanium, and b) my recent focus has been on lowering the unsprung mass to improve the handling, and the Comps really do the trick.

Also, I went with 19s because my car's lowered and I'm a little leery of how choppy the ride would be with 20s. Not to mention how much more likely I'd be to damage them the way I drive.

And as far as 19x9 vs. 19x10, the 10s will fit with 275 or even 285s (BARELY, depending on the tire) if the car isn't lowered. If it's lowered, all bets are off...

Josh

myblkc63

Nrgy,

You are right the RE-11's come in a 265/35/19, but I need a 265/30/19 for optimal fit. The R888 come in that size so that is what I am going to go with.

C63 Guy,

Your right the 19X10 will fit 275 but I am told the 19X10 wont fit on the car and sice the rim i want does not come in a 19X9.5 that leaves me with a 19X9 and while a 275 will technically fit on the rim it will not be an optimal fit and will actually give me less performance than a 265. Also, I will have the car lowered. I am havig the shop put on KW V3's at the same time.

Now if this all seems odd or wrong to any of you please let me know. I have gone through a huge learning curve on rims and tires over the last couple days and I believe what the shop is telling me but I definately value and appreciate other opinions and experiences.

Thanks again for all the tremendous help!

C63 Guy

Just sent you a long-*** PM about sizes. And 19x10 will fit. I have them on my ride.

As far as sizing goes, here's the long and short of it:

Easy fit - any 265 rears lowered any amount. 275s on stock rims or aftermarket 9-9.5" width, lowered a little.

Moderate fit - 275s on aftermarket 9.5", lowered a lot. 285s on aftermarket 9.5", stock ride height.

PITA fit - 285s on aftermarket 9.5-10", lowered a little, rolled fenders.

WHAT WAS I THINKING?!? fit - 285s on aftermarket 10", slammed, rolled. A solution, however, is in the works thanks to HRE and evosport.

Also, this thread's been so seriously hijacked it's about time we re-title it "What to do, Tires and Rims"?

Josh

myblkc63

C63 Guy,

Good point about the thread title. When I started it I was trying to decide between headers and rotors. I finally made the decision for rotors and I mentioned it was partly due to the fact that I was doing rims, tires and suspension at the same time. Then we got all caught up in rim and tire talk when I found out that my original choice was not going to work exactly as I had planned.

At any rate I greatly appreciate all the feedback, opinions and help. I believe that I have made a very good choice and I could not have done it without the help and tremendous learning I reveived from everyone here.

Thanks again to all.

myblkc63

Oh and I checked out the link to your car/exhaust pics/videos and all I can say is WOW...