Quadcammer

no harm no foul. I certainly try to be objective and sometimes I like to play devils advocate.

I'm passionate about vehicles, and therefore, sometimes my internal filter gets overwhelmed.

cheers!

thwalkerjr

No, remember I said no proof was necessary. I just invited you to investigate. It is interesting though that if people are more likely to complain on forums there aren't very many many complaints on this forum. So maybe we can take that as an "indicator", but I certainly would not call that a fact.

No basis really, I do know that some of his last posts were him talking about car problems and having to take his V back to the dealership. Not sure if that's why he stopped bragging about his V on this forum though.

I knew it!

Ford qualifies, but GM would be a better. Since the score is MB = 5 and American = 1, would you not agree that German engineering is superior?

Quadcammer

well, to be fair, the favorite car I owned was the 1995 M3. That said, all of the german cars I owned were far more expensive than the mustang, so its not a great comparison. However, the mustang has been dead nuts reliable (with the exception of stuff that my mods have done), it sounds good, it moves ok, and its still fairly attractive. Its dead nuts simple, and built poorly, but its sturdy enough.

I would have no problems with a Z06, for instance.

propain

It didnt beat the lexus.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand

The caddy did very well in 09 though I must say. Caddy should break away from GM and they would be much better off because if you average it out GM didnt do well at all.

Study that chart and tell me again how GM has better quality than MB.

Sorry, but you burned yourself this time.

C63newdude

What do you mean off course? I have a road test with the Mercedes doing 0-60mph in 3.9 sec and another one in 4.1 sec. Edmunds tested them both and the C63 got 4.1 sec and the Cadillac did 4.3 sec.

Yes the Cadillac has 556hp but also weights about 300-400lbs more. I was expecting the match to be even. I can only think the person launched the car with the traction control on(C63)

C63newdude

++1111111 on the tires size. I am the number one critic on this. I always maintainined that we totally bend over against any other car. You will not find any other car in the world with such power(451HP) and such skinny tires. AMG is a total fail in two things:

1) tires
2) making the rear fenders flared to accomodate the lack of wider tires

Again, AMG is a total fail on that aspect. Don't argue, it is what it is.

C63newdude

On hand Car and Driver magazine Nov 2008 edition VIR lighting lap comparo

Cadillac 3 minutes 4 sec,00
C63 AMG 3 minutes 6 sec,5

Same magazine, page 89
Cadillac 0-60 4.3sec 0-100 mph 9.7 1/4 mile 12.6@116mph

C63 AMG motor trend test
0-60 4.1 sec 0-100mph 9.7 1/4 mile 12.5@114
Car and driver
C63AMG 3.9 SEC 0-60 MPH 12.3@116 mph


Here is some ammo:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...fications.html

Here is more ammo(stock C63 AMG 0-60 mph 3.9sec , 1/4 MILE 12.3@116mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...c63_amg_page_3

I don't understand why the C63 lost. It shows better acceleration in every test..

FormulaZR

I agree that tire width is somewhat of an issue...but there are numerous cars out there WAY quicker than an MB on 10.5" tires which is narrower than a 275 and closer to a 265. Just saying a set of MT DR's is a quick fix!

CDNROCKIES

NEW YORK – British luxury carmaker Jaguar surged to the top of J.D. Power and Associates' closely watched vehicle dependability study this year, tying Buick for the No. 1 spot and dethroning Lexus for the first time since the Japanese luxury brand has been a part of the survey.

Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s luxury brand, took the next spot in the study released Thursday, followed by Toyota's namesake brand, then Mercury, Infiniti and Acura.

"Buick and Jaguar both lead the industry in nameplate performance," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis at J.D. Power. "In terms of individual model performance, Lexus and Toyota still do very, very well."

The annual study measures problems experienced by the original owners of vehicles after three years. Suzuki owners reported the most problems among the 37 brands assessed by J.D. Power.

Despite losing its crown to Jaguar and Buick, Lexus still swept top awards in four segments, while Toyota's namesake brand took five awards. General Motors Corp.'s Buick LaCrosse was J.D. Power's top midsize car, while Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln brand took two awards. Chrysler LLC, which took no segment awards last year, won top honors for its Dodge Caravan in the van segment.

Jaguar's sudden jump to the top from its No. 10 spot in 2008 was notable for a study that is fairly consistent from year to year. Oddes said the brand has made significant improvements across many areas.

"We see improvements all over the board with Jaguar," Oddes said, citing fewer reported problems with vehicle exterior, sound system and the overall driving experience. "The improvement at a nameplate level is significant."

Still, Jaguar, which Indian car giant Tata Motors Ltd. bought from Ford in 2007, remains a relatively small-volume brand in the U.S. It sold just 14,000 vehicles here in 2008, while Buick sold 128,000.

Oddes said this year's study was redesigned to exclude routine fixes from a vehicle's list of problems. For example, the study no longer counts tire or windshield wiper replacements as a reportable problem. The intended result is a study that focuses on actual glitches with a vehicle, Oddes said, though it also makes it difficult to make year-over-year comparisons.

"We cleaned up the survey to really try to focus in on things that are truly broken," he said.

The industry average was 170 problems per 100 vehicles, or somewhat less than two problems per vehicle. Last year, the industry average was 206 problems per 100 vehicles, but year-over-year improvements this year are much less pronounced when accounting for the changes in the study's methodology, Oddes said.

The most frequently reported problem was wind noise, followed by brake noise, peeling paint, brake vibrations and problems with a vehicle's lights, Oddes said. The problems have been fairly consistent from year to year, he said.

J.D. Power's dependability study surveyed 46,313 original owners of 2006 model-year vehicles in October 2008. The results are watched closely by automakers and are often used in advertising. Owners' opinion of a car after three years can be a major influence on their opinion to buy that brand again.

The firm also releases an initial quality study, which measures problems in the first 90 days of ownership.

C63newdude

I agree. But from factory the C63 AMG is a joke with such small rubber. It is a total desaster in terms of traction. I would expect at least 275-285 rubber in the back and some flared fenders. Being a C63 AMG it is unjustifiable to have the same body style as the C300.

Quadcammer

perhaps you are correct about initial quality, however I was referring to dependability. My mistake for not claifiying.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?id=2009043

for quick reference, GMC, Buick, Cadillac, Ford, and Lincoln all ranked higher than MB, with Chevrolet coming in just below.

2008 results
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2008115

Quadcammer

This is just my opinion, but perhaps because acceleration is not the only way to judge a car. Fwiw, the caddy was faster round the track.

thwalkerjr

I would not consider JD Power to be the most objective information source. They get paid primarily by auto manufacturers (consulting, shaping consumer perceptions, etc) - you want a good rating? you pay me good moola.

Granted, I do not have a body of evidence - but I happen to work in an industry that is similar - pay the analysts or get screwed in their analyses.

yooker

FraKctured

This is better than TV and much cheaper.

Acceleration is a function of weight, power and traction.

Reduce weight and/or increase power and/or traction and you will improve acceleration.


It's not rocket surgery.

dubai63

WOW.... i started this thread just 1 day back.. and 4pages already OMG... and most of the guys bashing the cadillac.. comon guys, you know what my friend with the c63 is going crazy about the cts-v ... and even the cts-v owner loved the c63.. and both of them are friends now, so why cant c63 or any amg owner or mb owner be friends with cadillac here? i mean we love to race, and respect good cars, and trust me folks, cts-v is a very good car and it commands respect. anyways.. we are planning to have a race again this weekend, i know the c63 can't beat the V, but as i said both respective drivers are enthusiasts, and have great respect for each other. Are there any V owners over here, just wanted to ask is the auto really faster than the manual??..

Thankyou guys for posting comments, but please try not to bash the V, because im in love with it :-) .... each to his own. thankyou.

AKSpray

hey im in dubai... let me know when ur racing them ill come down..

dubai63

is ur c63 modded?

AKSpray

no its still stock...

dubai63

do u want to try against him? i can arrange for you..

AKSpray

check ur pm

rockykhan

did u find anywhere in my post written:

1. cts v will beat c63 amg in 0 to 60

i was talking bt regular highway stuff.....not drag times....i love my amg....but regarding this thread on a open highway with speeds 100 to 150+..thats when u will see the diff....but then ofcourse the caddy is supercharged 556 hp....and the benz is n/a 451 i think....so its not even fair for them to b compared power wise...

the c63 looks way more sexier...thats a no contest for me.

dubai63

khan saab please see one in personal.

Quadcammer

A valid point. Then again, its hard to find a good unbiased source on quality, and I'm sure we agree anecdotes don't prove terribly useful.

propain

Ahh. Interesting stuff there. I am only go by my experience. Overall I do enjoy driving GM vehicles but I find the quality seems to be lacking. The best car I own from GM is my 2000 SS Camaro. You wanna talk dependable? 45K miles on her now and not a single problem inside or out. She is in perfect condition.

I wish I could say the same about my other GM's. My Buick and Caddy had many problems. The Caddy so much so that I had to sell her. I never sell cars. I have a small warehouse where I store them all. The Caddy gave me so much trouble mechanically I had to let her go. Also with the engineering. The wheel hop was so completely unacceptable it wasn’t even funny.

In the end I was on the fence for the CTSV and decided to go with the C63 instead due to my past experience with Caddy. Hopefully everything has improved and maybe ill get one next year because the numbers sure are tempting. Of the many things that keep me enjoying my C63 I feel like im driving a GM. The engine sound and power really feels like an old GM. It always takes me back to a 1970 Monty Carlo I owned.