Interesting dyno today with Stock vs Renntech Stage 3
09-18-2009, 12:37 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
09-18-2009, 12:48 PM
#29
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA working like a slave
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C63 AMG Arctic w/ Stage 1 Tune, DoubleXX pipe, MCD-631X coming soon
Brian Thank you very much for the dyno runs. Your facility is very nice. The showroom is comfotable and has a bunch of mags, arcades and lots of framed articles on the walls that show how professional the company is. The "garage" section is super clean and packed with different cars (Lotus, Audi, a lot of Japanese tuned cars, as I understood Jap cars, specialy Mitsubishi's (3000GT), are GT PRO's speciality 
). The DYNO itself is installed in the floor (looks professional and very safe). Overall the facility is awesome. Brian is a really nice guy and I had a very good time hanging out at GT PRO.
It is Package 3 as sflgator said.
- CF airbox
- Headers
- ECU 2
- Sound mod (2ry cat removed)
I'm also kind of sad about the numbers. I mean, I'm a realist and I was expecting 430ish even though Renntech lists 555 crank for Pack 3 (555 / 18% is around 450ish) but it is what it is.
Since I bought the car tuned from a renntech dealer I might as well talk to the owner and maybe he can recommend something.
I think 414whp is a good result for a tune only but with all the other mods it looks low.
Anyway, Thank you members for your comments and special Thanks to Brian for making this head to head DYNO run.
). The DYNO itself is installed in the floor (looks professional and very safe). Overall the facility is awesome. Brian is a really nice guy and I had a very good time hanging out at GT PRO. It is Package 3 as sflgator said.
- CF airbox
- Headers
- ECU 2
- Sound mod (2ry cat removed)
I'm also kind of sad about the numbers. I mean, I'm a realist and I was expecting 430ish even though Renntech lists 555 crank for Pack 3 (555 / 18% is around 450ish) but it is what it is.
Since I bought the car tuned from a renntech dealer I might as well talk to the owner and maybe he can recommend something.
I think 414whp is a good result for a tune only but with all the other mods it looks low.
Anyway, Thank you members for your comments and special Thanks to Brian for making this head to head DYNO run.
09-18-2009, 12:53 PM
#30
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA working like a slave
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C63 AMG Arctic w/ Stage 1 Tune, DoubleXX pipe, MCD-631X coming soon
The variables are that this car was running 91 Octane fuel, it is *possible* that timing being pulled (not way to know ATM, but we're working on a datalogging system that we should be rolling out in the next few weeks to monitor this), or possibly something in the mapping needs to be adjusted (torque limit/WOT TB Open/A/F or any other host of things). This is my opinion.
09-18-2009, 12:56 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
2013 Chevy 427 Torch Red
The TQ plateau usually runs 3500 to 5500 rpm then falls and the intersection of HP and TQ is always at 5250 rpm on every dyno pull that my car has made.
09-18-2009, 01:19 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Figured out why they don't cross at 5252 - GT PRO has chosen different y axis scales for HP and TQ... don't know anyone else that does it that way on these cars, but it explains that discrepancy.
09-18-2009, 02:10 PM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
The variables are that this car was running 91 Octane fuel, it is *possible* that timing being pulled (not way to know ATM, but we're working on a datalogging system that we should be rolling out in the next few weeks to monitor this), or possibly something in the mapping needs to be adjusted (torque limit/WOT TB Open/A/F or any other host of things). This is my opinion.
09-18-2009, 02:16 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moscow Russia, Los Angeles USA
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2009 MB C63 2007 MB ML63 2006 MB CLS 500 (wife)
2 Bushburning: I was also thinking about CA 91. The former owner (OPM GT3) told me that the car was tuned for 93 (since it was in MD), he even asked me if I want to re-tune for 91 CA Gas. I refused since I will bring the car home to Moscow, Russia in a couple of months, there we have 92, 95 and 98 Gasoline (it is a little different than American standarts, basically 98 Russian is something close to 93 American). Thanks for bringing up this important point.
09-18-2009, 02:39 PM
#35
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA working like a slave
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C63 AMG Arctic w/ Stage 1 Tune, DoubleXX pipe, MCD-631X coming soon
Dynoing at a different shop just to try and *see* better numbers is a waste of time if you ask me. The *Delta* is what matters. We provided the Delta back to back, with conditions, temp, baro pressure, fan placement, rpm sweep etc etc identical. We are VERY VERY used to this sort of thing, as we provide data for Eurotuner Magazine, European Car Magazine, RSS, IPD Porsche tuning, Tanabe USA, Eurocode Tuning, GST Tuning, as well as many many others. We are sticklers when it comes to data, consistency and accuracy.
Last edited by Brian GT PRO; 09-18-2009 at 02:48 PM.
09-18-2009, 02:55 PM
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moscow Russia, Los Angeles USA
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2009 MB C63 2007 MB ML63 2006 MB CLS 500 (wife)
Brian, I really trust your shop and experience, and it is very important (for me at least) that Euro tuner, European car and other use your facility.
I was just thinking, that some dyno machines are more "optimistic" (meaning: showing rather high numbers) and some are realistic (somewhere very close, like within 2-1 hp off) and others are just showing low numbers.
I'm not saying that there is something wrong with the number you pulled on your DynoJet, but I was thinking (just thinking) to see a 2nd opinion at another place. But I will probably pass on that, I will only do it if there is a stock car and if it will be back to back.
Brian, can you please post the dyno from my car, the three pulls you made and a dyno sheet of your car, so that every one can see two car runs?
I was just thinking, that some dyno machines are more "optimistic" (meaning: showing rather high numbers) and some are realistic (somewhere very close, like within 2-1 hp off) and others are just showing low numbers.
I'm not saying that there is something wrong with the number you pulled on your DynoJet, but I was thinking (just thinking) to see a 2nd opinion at another place. But I will probably pass on that, I will only do it if there is a stock car and if it will be back to back.
Brian, can you please post the dyno from my car, the three pulls you made and a dyno sheet of your car, so that every one can see two car runs?
Last edited by -michael-; 09-18-2009 at 02:58 PM.
09-18-2009, 04:31 PM
#37
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA working like a slave
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C63 AMG Arctic w/ Stage 1 Tune, DoubleXX pipe, MCD-631X coming soon
Brian, I really trust your shop and experience, and it is very important (for me at least) that Euro tuner, European car and other use your facility.
I was just thinking, that some dyno machines are more "optimistic" (meaning: showing rather high numbers) and some are realistic (somewhere very close, like within 2-1 hp off) and others are just showing low numbers.
I'm not saying that there is something wrong with the number you pulled on your DynoJet, but I was thinking (just thinking) to see a 2nd opinion at another place. But I will probably pass on that, I will only do it if there is a stock car and if it will be back to back.
Brian, can you please post the dyno from my car, the three pulls you made and a dyno sheet of your car, so that every one can see two car runs?
I was just thinking, that some dyno machines are more "optimistic" (meaning: showing rather high numbers) and some are realistic (somewhere very close, like within 2-1 hp off) and others are just showing low numbers.
I'm not saying that there is something wrong with the number you pulled on your DynoJet, but I was thinking (just thinking) to see a 2nd opinion at another place. But I will probably pass on that, I will only do it if there is a stock car and if it will be back to back.
Brian, can you please post the dyno from my car, the three pulls you made and a dyno sheet of your car, so that every one can see two car runs?
Here are the dyno from Michael's car for your viewing pleasure. BTW: runs 1 and 2 are 5th gear, and run 3 is 4th gear. We did this to see what differences we might see.
Last edited by Brian GT PRO; 09-18-2009 at 04:33 PM.
09-18-2009, 07:55 PM
#38
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
No problem at all. I have an idea. If you have some time maybe next week, let's up your octane level and give it another try? (on the house), so we might be able to provide a little more insight into this situation for the benefit of everyone.
Here are the dyno from Michael's car for your viewing pleasure. BTW: runs 1 and 2 are 5th gear, and run 3 is 4th gear. We did this to see what differences we might see.
Here are the dyno from Michael's car for your viewing pleasure. BTW: runs 1 and 2 are 5th gear, and run 3 is 4th gear. We did this to see what differences we might see.
09-19-2009, 12:56 AM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moscow Russia, Los Angeles USA
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2009 MB C63 2007 MB ML63 2006 MB CLS 500 (wife)
No problem at all. I have an idea. If you have some time maybe next week, let's up your octane level and give it another try? (on the house), so we might be able to provide a little more insight into this situation for the benefit of everyone.
Here are the dyno from Michael's car for your viewing pleasure. BTW: runs 1 and 2 are 5th gear, and run 3 is 4th gear. We did this to see what differences we might see.
Here are the dyno from Michael's car for your viewing pleasure. BTW: runs 1 and 2 are 5th gear, and run 3 is 4th gear. We did this to see what differences we might see.
Any LA members would like to join me? It would be really nice to hang out @ GT PRO and chat + dyno (head 2 head). Anybody?
09-19-2009, 11:59 AM
#41
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA working like a slave
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C63 AMG Arctic w/ Stage 1 Tune, DoubleXX pipe, MCD-631X coming soon
WOW Now that is some serious calls! I cannot pass on a offer like this. In my understanding, this is true professionalism! I would be more then happy to come again to your facility and have a blast there, just like I did a couple days ago. Just tell me when
Any LA members would like to join me? It would be really nice to hang out @ GT PRO and chat + dyno (head 2 head). Anybody?
Any LA members would like to join me? It would be really nice to hang out @ GT PRO and chat + dyno (head 2 head). Anybody?
09-19-2009, 12:08 PM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Dynoing at a different shop just to try and *see* better numbers is a waste of time if you ask me. The *Delta* is what matters. We provided the Delta back to back, with conditions, temp, baro pressure, fan placement, rpm sweep etc etc identical. We are VERY VERY used to this sort of thing, as we provide data for Eurotuner Magazine, European Car Magazine, RSS, IPD Porsche tuning, Tanabe USA, Eurocode Tuning, GST Tuning, as well as many many others. We are sticklers when it comes to data, consistency and accuracy.
Agreed the delta is what's important. Am I correct in saying -michael-'s car doens't have it's own baseline?
We've all seen how much these cars and their handbuilt AMG engines vary in output... while you can compare one car's stock dyno to a different car's modded dyno, you can't really draw any definitive conclusions from it - you need the modded car to have it's own baseline for a fair delta comparison to the RT Package 3.
That said, -michael- dynoing elsewhere wouldn't change that his car doesn't have a stock baseline (if, in fact, it doesn't). Might as well keep dynoing at the same shop on the same machine.
09-19-2009, 12:31 PM
#43
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA working like a slave
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C63 AMG Arctic w/ Stage 1 Tune, DoubleXX pipe, MCD-631X coming soon
Impressive pedigree.
Agreed the delta is what's important. Am I correct in saying -michael-'s car doens't have it's own baseline?
We've all seen how much these cars and their handbuilt AMG engines vary in output... while you can compare one car's stock dyno to a different car's modded dyno, you can't really draw any definitive conclusions from it - you need the modded car to have it's own baseline for a fair delta comparison to the RT Package 3.
That said, -michael- dynoing elsewhere wouldn't change that his car doesn't have a stock baseline (if, in fact, it doesn't). Might as well keep dynoing at the same shop on the same machine.
Agreed the delta is what's important. Am I correct in saying -michael-'s car doens't have it's own baseline?
We've all seen how much these cars and their handbuilt AMG engines vary in output... while you can compare one car's stock dyno to a different car's modded dyno, you can't really draw any definitive conclusions from it - you need the modded car to have it's own baseline for a fair delta comparison to the RT Package 3.
That said, -michael- dynoing elsewhere wouldn't change that his car doesn't have a stock baseline (if, in fact, it doesn't). Might as well keep dynoing at the same shop on the same machine.
09-19-2009, 12:57 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'09 C63 AMG
It is my belief that his car does not have it's own baseline, hence why we used this totally stock C63 in an effort to provide a basic delta in which to compare using the same dyno, same weather conditions etc., all done within a 15 min. window so as to get as close as we could with room temps, carbon filling etc. Vehicle variations? yes I agree, and actually all cars typically have some degree of variation, no two will be spot on identical, this test was to try and provide the most accurate comparison we could. Even if we had built Michaels car, it would have been a bit difficult to get 100% accurate data, as there might have been a change in weather conditions, etc., that might have effected the test results as well. Anyhow, we're going to see if we can provide everyone with a bit more insight in the next week or so, as we embark on this journey of discovery.
