BMW unleashes new M3 GTS
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,318
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From: OC, SoCal
08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
But no, this car will not come to the US I'm 99.9% sure...heck we never even got the RS6 which is more suited to US roads...
-Rob
#52
Check this out! It sure sounds good and looks fast on track!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPyLZj6HuLU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPyLZj6HuLU
#53
May the biggest budget win, on your mark, get set, MOD!
#56
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 2
From: Miami, FL
C63 AMG(sold), 2009 CL550, 2010 S550 Majestic Black, 2010 ML550, 2006 C230, 2009 Venza
well this car's the equivalent of game over for AMG.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
#61
It's funny how many infiltrated BMW fanboys we have in this forum (which by the way happen to not even own a benz). So how is it "GAME OVER" for AMG exactly? $110k+ to tackle sharp turns in style with lets see, 30 more horsepower, enhanced BMW "unique" track suspension, different body kit, a huge wing spoiler and a racing interior. If AMG really wanted to develop a track car to actually compete with this(in the same price range) they would of already done so. It seems that M and AMG are still very different in many things and each best at what they are made for and for the type of buyers they aim to attract.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
#62
It's funny how many infiltrated BMW fanboys we have in this forum (which by the way happen to not even own a benz). So how is it "GAME OVER" for AMG exactly? $110k+ to tackle sharp turns in style with lets see, 30 more horsepower, enhanced BMW "unique" track suspension, different body kit, a huge wing spoiler and a racing interior. If AMG really wanted to develop a track car to actually compete with this(in the same price range) they would of already done so. It seems that M and AMG are still very different in many things and each best at what they are made for and for the type of buyers they aim to attract.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
just buy a C63 with Performance Packet Plus you have to pay 7000 Euro for 30 Hp more!
C63 PPP= 487hp@1700Kg= 77.000Euro
M3 GTS= 450hp@1500Kg=115.000Euro +38.000Euro!!!!
Than you buy a rollcage and remove the rear seats etc. and i bet you will have the same fun with your C63 PPP as with the M3 Gts for even less money!
and we all know where you can buy this fugly wing @egay....
#63
It's funny how many infiltrated BMW fanboys we have in this forum (which by the way happen to not even own a benz). So how is it "GAME OVER" for AMG exactly? $110k+ to tackle sharp turns in style with lets see, 30 more horsepower, enhanced BMW "unique" track suspension, different body kit, a huge wing spoiler and a racing interior. If AMG really wanted to develop a track car to actually compete with this(in the same price range) they would of already done so. It seems that M and AMG are still very different in many things and each best at what they are made for and for the type of buyers they aim to attract.
But you are right, it isn't GAMEOVER OR CHECKMATE. It never is for any brand, but at this moment, Benz can be considered in the the situation we so funnily identify as being 'checked'. This car is expected to surpass the E46 M3 CSL (if it didn't, I'd be worried) and ultimately, that should position itself along the lines of the some of the times established by an LP640, SLR and 997 GT3 / GT3 RS. If the old E46 M3 CSL is quicker around a track than 9/10 of the AMG range, this E92 M3 GTS would be almost 99% quicker than all AMGs.
Now where my point about fanboy stands most corrected is where you mention the whole 'If AMG wanted, they could'. A BMW fanboy, like any other fanboy would say the same thing. You just professed it yourself... But lets look at that 'If AMG wanted, they could' remark again. Well guess what? They tried to with the CLK BS and SL BS. They didn't produce it to compete with the M3, obviously; but they produced them as pure, track monsters. They didn't make them to be quicker in a straight line cupcake, it is all about track potential. However, they didn't get very far with it, considering if we compare them to their Italian and American counterparts for which they are comparable to, did it? Quick, but not quick enough for the price you pay for a CLK BS or SL BS.
There are always fanboys everywhere, and I admit, I can be a BMW or Benz fanboy depending on what is being discussed.
Build a bridge and get over it, just discuss and argue your points against. NO brand remains on top and each brand shines with each tide.
#64
It's funny how many infiltrated BMW fanboys we have in this forum (which by the way happen to not even own a benz). So how is it "GAME OVER" for AMG exactly? $110k+ to tackle sharp turns in style with lets see, 30 more horsepower, enhanced BMW "unique" track suspension, different body kit, a huge wing spoiler and a racing interior. If AMG really wanted to develop a track car to actually compete with this(in the same price range) they would of already done so. It seems that M and AMG are still very different in many things and each best at what they are made for and for the type of buyers they aim to attract.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
That is one HELL of a car, but I would probably also go with a GT3 or a used GT3-RS if you can get one.
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,737
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From: Seattle
'19 E63S, ‘16 CLS63 RIP, '09 E63 Gone, '06 M5 Gone, '97 Supra TT Gone
It's funny how many infiltrated BMW fanboys we have in this forum (which by the way happen to not even own a benz). So how is it "GAME OVER" for AMG exactly? $110k+ to tackle sharp turns in style with lets see, 30 more horsepower, enhanced BMW "unique" track suspension, different body kit, a huge wing spoiler and a racing interior. If AMG really wanted to develop a track car to actually compete with this(in the same price range) they would of already done so. It seems that M and AMG are still very different in many things and each best at what they are made for and for the type of buyers they aim to attract.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
I have a lot of respect for the brand (BMW) but their owners make me sick.
#66
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 1
From: N.Jersey and New York, stationed in Germany
W164 ML500,SMART For two,1994 C280(5speed manual) 1999 C230k station wagon
#67
the nordschliefe is overused as a performance benchmark. The track is so long, the surface is poor, the conditions are unpredictable, etc.
On a standard track like lets say watkins glen or laguna seca (and maybe even VIR or road america), the CSL should outperform the CLK63BS
On a standard track like lets say watkins glen or laguna seca (and maybe even VIR or road america), the CSL should outperform the CLK63BS
#68
Thought some of you would be interested in this.
450 bhp 4.4L V8, 7-speed dual-clutch gearbox, early editions should reach their Germany-based customers by May of next year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7G6K-i4soQ
BMW is targetting a Nurburgring time below that of their fabled M3 CSL from a few years ago, which would seem eminently possible considering the huge difference in power output between the old and the new.
More info here: https://www.m-power.com/_open/b/home.jsp?lang=en
450 bhp 4.4L V8, 7-speed dual-clutch gearbox, early editions should reach their Germany-based customers by May of next year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7G6K-i4soQ
BMW is targetting a Nurburgring time below that of their fabled M3 CSL from a few years ago, which would seem eminently possible considering the huge difference in power output between the old and the new.
More info here: https://www.m-power.com/_open/b/home.jsp?lang=en
#69
the nordschliefe is overused as a performance benchmark. The track is so long, the surface is poor, the conditions are unpredictable, etc.
On a standard track like lets say watkins glen or laguna seca (and maybe even VIR or road america), the CSL should outperform the CLK63BS
On a standard track like lets say watkins glen or laguna seca (and maybe even VIR or road america), the CSL should outperform the CLK63BS
#71
3.2L I6 vs 6.2L V8, whole big age difference and not to mention the SLS is sooo much more expensive. It's like comparing GTR to GT3 RS, in this case, CSL to SLS. =]
And FYI, the GTS should produce the same lap time, if not faster. We'll just have to wait and see. Don't forget, the GTS is a 4.4L, still 1.8L displacement difference and it still manages to give the SLS a run for its money.
Last edited by iftwb; 11-10-2009 at 04:53 AM.
#72
Errrr... real big accomplishment!
3.2L I6 vs 6.2L V8, whole big age difference and not to mention the SLS is sooo much more expensive. It's like comparing GTR to GT3 RS, in this case, CSL to SLS. =]
And FYI, the GTS should produce the same lap time, if not faster. We'll just have to wait and see. Don't forget, the GTS is a 4.4L, still 1.8L displacement difference and it still manages to give the SLS a run for its money.
3.2L I6 vs 6.2L V8, whole big age difference and not to mention the SLS is sooo much more expensive. It's like comparing GTR to GT3 RS, in this case, CSL to SLS. =]
And FYI, the GTS should produce the same lap time, if not faster. We'll just have to wait and see. Don't forget, the GTS is a 4.4L, still 1.8L displacement difference and it still manages to give the SLS a run for its money.
This is non sense cause M156 is a totally different approach in building an engine compare to the S62. High Reving efficiency vs a V8 small block with monterous torque. Both engines have pros and cons but all things said both are awesome engines for a street car.
Now what is really a step beyond M156 and S62 is the engine the in F430 4.3L V8 producing 480+hp and 343ft of torque and revs to 8.5k.
#73
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 1
From: N.Jersey and New York, stationed in Germany
W164 ML500,SMART For two,1994 C280(5speed manual) 1999 C230k station wagon
Plus 1. Some people use the displacement thing every time and yes MB is highly accomplished.
#74
Hands down 458 Italia 4.3L V8 engine.
Well Mike, the 2.2L difference is what gives the M156 that small power/torque benefit over the S62, if I am not mistaken? You brought up the 4.3L V8 in the 458 Italia is a hands-down win approach simply based on the fact that it is only a 4.3L engine, yet it manages to produce oh-so-much power and torque. I think it is fair to say that despite different approaches, based upon high-revving V8 to V8 with monstrous torque based up on extensively large displacement; its fair to say that BMW has accomplished a lot with just 4.0L.
Also, some have complained that despite being stroked from 4.0L to 4.4L M division only managed a ~30kW increase. Well, despite the fact I know there is more to it than just merely quoting displacement differences, a M156 is 6.2L, yet it only manages to produce ~30kW more than the stock E9x M3's S62 output (disregarding massive torque difference).
Well Mike, the 2.2L difference is what gives the M156 that small power/torque benefit over the S62, if I am not mistaken? You brought up the 4.3L V8 in the 458 Italia is a hands-down win approach simply based on the fact that it is only a 4.3L engine, yet it manages to produce oh-so-much power and torque. I think it is fair to say that despite different approaches, based upon high-revving V8 to V8 with monstrous torque based up on extensively large displacement; its fair to say that BMW has accomplished a lot with just 4.0L.
Also, some have complained that despite being stroked from 4.0L to 4.4L M division only managed a ~30kW increase. Well, despite the fact I know there is more to it than just merely quoting displacement differences, a M156 is 6.2L, yet it only manages to produce ~30kW more than the stock E9x M3's S62 output (disregarding massive torque difference).