You hate to say it? Really? I don't think that's true at all. In fact I know from every post I've ever read from you that you absolutley LOVE to say it. Just admit it, you go out of your way to get in a cheap shot at others' expense. Embrace it, it's who you are.

I'll admit that I took the Mercedes advertising for this car a little too literally and actually drove it like they show it being driven. That's my bad, but this is a ****ing AMG and not some sissified BMW.

Josh

 

Must be a full moon tonight, these threads are off the chain.

 

 

+1
There are also some explosions in the sun.
It is no good for people who react to weather (magnetic fields)

 

A burn out in a water box with a line lock is VERY different then a brake-stand burnout. The latter will build up exponentially more heat.

 

We all know that our C63s have oil temps,coolant temps. But what about the tranny temp?

 

Ok after further thought into this, here some some of my considerations:

There are obviously two types of owners:

1. Those who buy and drive relatively stock (possible minor mods)

2. Those who buy and modify greatly to test and experience the true nature and limits of this performance car

I think would be a little hypocritical on our parts to have this "I told you so attitude" towards this situation. Even I regret my initial comments and think that our frustrations were more in the sense of feeling bad for Josh (if I may call you by your first name Josh) and the expenses he is facing right now with a fried C63. Its like watching a brand new C63 P31 having a grand piano being dropped on it. We would all cringe for hours. We need to get into our heads that these are performance machines that claim exceptional abilities and levels of quality and we need not drive them like toyota corollas...

Without Josh and others like him, NONE of us would be even able to tout how truly amazing and incredible this machine is. For his willingness to put the C63 to the true test and to take Mercedes-Benz to the edge of every claim they make I feel like we owe him a sense of gratitude and appreciation. Not that he guineapigged his car, but the he had the F***ing ***** to take his C63 to its limits and make MB put their claims where there mouth is.

Many owners don't have the guts, time, or money to experience the true performance of this car. They lose out on a large part of the experience. I myself hope to start with some mods this summer when I can actually drive the damn thing and its not snowing; after learning more from gurus such as Josh and dadsC63, etc.(there are many more that I haven't mentioned but you know who you are and your knowledge and experience in pushing this car is invaluable to all of us). All of us learn and contribute on this site and look forward to reading everyones 2cents worth.

I beleive that Josh is a true pioneer in the art and skill in taking a performance car and making it perform like it should, burn-outs or not. I envy his knowledge, dedication, and bravery.

His "mistakes" or pushing of his car to the outer limits allows everyone to make a realization and deeper understanding of how this car is made and built. I don't think that we have the right to sit on the sidelines and wave a finger, but rather appreciate that he is farther beyond us in ever becoming "one" with the car...

I am not accusing anyone of anything, pointing any fingers, or making any negative assumptions, but just making a generalization and an editorial after further thought on my own part. I realize that what I initially stated was shallow and ignorant.

Josh, I hope you keep us posted on the details that you explained on how the gears look and appear, how the transmission was built, and what is the status of your 63 now...

Hats of to you.

end of lecture.

 

Well said..

 

I'm not saying the burnouts didn't cause it.... I'm just saying based on other data we've seen, those burnouts shouldn't have been the primary cause of the failure and especially that the failure occured so quickly I've been to the drag strip (on average) twice a month in the past two years and have seen countless 63s running hard at the track over and over again with zero tranny problems.

Agreed.... but a few points should be noted:

1) Jrcart had a few "spirited" 1/4 mile sessions at different tracks way before the line lock was installed.
2) Jrcart was using tires that were much stickier (especially when heated even in a water box) than the very "slippery" street tires Josh was using, which should offset some of the "water box" effect.
3) This still doesn't explain how rarfinancial, Juicee63, DadsC63, bryan, and others have repeatedly dragged their cars a million times more than Josh, some in the much heavier CLS platform (and with much more power than Josh's car), which should generate a lot more stress on the tranny, and have yet to have any tranny problems

In my opinion, something else maybe at play here..... and though I'm sure Josh's "abuse" didn't help matters, I think that we maybe missing a piece in the puzzle.

Interesting topic indeed..... Josh I wish you all the best and please keep us updated

 

Possibly a tranny that wasn't built perfectly like the ones you listed and then was handed off to someone who drives the car enthusiasticlly (sp?)
So agreeing with mbforever, that possibly not 100% Josh's fault.

 

Uhm... I'm speechless (for a change). Thank you for your kind words and conscientious reappraisal of the situation. It always touches me when my actions (good or bad) cause people to reconsider their positions on things.

As far as the burnouts/line locks debate goes, I don't think it's just that I did lots of burnouts. Unfortunately, on more than a few occasions (and twice at Famoso) I forgot to put the transmission into M-mode and allowed it to shift during a burnout/brakestand. As I've come to realize, THIS IS BAAAAD!!! As an example: During one run at Famoso when this happened during the tire warmup, the car wouldn't shift past third gear on my run. I was terrified, but rolled down the strip and let the car take a break. Fortunately, it went back to normal later in the day. When I recently discussed this with Brad, we came to the conclusion that it had overheated the trans and forced it into safe mode. Again, this is very bad!

Now, all the mistakes with myself behind the wheel are understandable, but the biggest mistake I made was to let (read: invite) a friend and pro-driver to do a monster burnout at the Optima Invitational. The car shifted up several times during the burnout, and each time, he clicked it back down a gear. BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD O.M.EFFING.G. BAD!!!!!, but 100% my fault for not clearly explaining how to set the car up. The drive home from that event was the first day that the car's transmission felt "off". That, coupled with the trip soon after to Famoso is what I believe began the demise of this transmission.

I've been fortunate enough to find someone in the valley that really knows these transmissions, and his assessment was that the some of the clutches, torque converter, and front pump were toasted and need replacement, but that the carriers and bearings are in fine condition and have a good service life in front of them, provided I take care not to shift during burnouts.

As far as the specific details of the failure, the trans fluid leak is coming from the juncture of the front pump and torque converter, so they're both being replaced. The front clutch pack (K1?) is toasted. The second and third clutches (K2 and P1?) are showing wear, but look serviceable. However, I'm getting a full rebuild kit from Level10 Transmission that includes all the clutches and seals, just to be on the safe side. As far as the gears and hardware inside the box, the gears all look pristine, but the internal carrier for the front clutch is partially discolored from overheating. While that may sound bad, steel discolors well below it's temper point, let alone it's yield point, so I'm hedging my bets on this one based on feedback from the tech that there's minimal physical wear and no deformation. Sadly, Mercedes only sells the front half of the box as a kit, and it's a little more than I can swing right now, so I'm going the rebuild route instead.

All the parts have been ordered and should be installed next week, so I'll be sure to post results after we get her reassembled.

Thanks again for your time, feedback, and support!

Josh

 

This is for sure -- Josh's contributions have been very valuable to the forum and to the understanding of the limitations of stock components on the C63. From your original post of your tranny issues, Josh, I thought you were a stand-up guy to explain what was going on with your car. It was something we could all benefit from and your honesty sans chest-puffing is refreshing. While some of us may sit back and say "what the __ was he thinking?" (yeah, that's me!) Well... "it takes all kinds to make a world" "different strokes" etc.... and I don't wish you any ill will at all. Sorry if my post came off that way. I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to cars. I love them in an odd sympathetic way, but it doesn't mean I'm not an enthusiast. I love to "feel" them, want to explore their personalities and quirks and see what they can do, and thus enjoy them to the fullest on the track (even crash them there yes I've made my mistakes too but no regrets, I had some great laptimes!)

Where do you think you will go from here in terms of mods? I love my cars like a child, so I hope that explains where I was coming from. (werd, nerd!) When I read "brakestand burnout" a part of me winces. But that's me. Your car will be back together and still freakin' fast. Just take care of that exceptional baby because you add value to the forum!

IMNSHO, .01, YMMV & I get too wrapped up in this internet thing sometimes, etc etc

 

Josh if you don't mind me asking....how much did this tranny rebuild cost?

 

Not at all. Even with all my connections (and more than a little begging and pleading), I'm in for roughly $3250 so far, and I still have to pay the tech. The torque converter was nearly half the total cost because I needed a whole new one. A rebuild/refit on the original one would have saved about $750, but mine was too scarred on the mating surfaces to take a chance on.

And thanks, Hans. I appreciate it.

Josh.

 

Maybe it's just me, but $3,250 (or thereabouts) isn't really that much to pay considering all the fun you've had.

 

That price doesn't seem to be too bad. At least, you aren't paying the so-called $25,000 for a tranny from the GTR when rumors were surrounding the failures of those trannys during extreme burnouts.

Hope you get everything straightened out. Do you think that you could find a used tranny from a C63 that might have been totaled?

 

Josh,
We bought these cars to enjoy them. I think "we" know the potential consequences and accept them. I love this thing and can't stop flogging it. I am sure(not to jenks myself) I will be next in line for some repairs. Guess I should stop doing the 25mph burnouts slowing down for a light.

When you have someone around that wants a piece of you and you are slowing to a stop at a light take the traction control OFF and when you get to about 25mph keep braking and let her rip!! You will be smoking the tires as you come to a stop and that really gets the other persons attention. Its actually pretty cool but now that you think that the "brake" burnouts may be the culprit I might stop doing that. CRAPP!!

Anyway, Josh keep racing and having a blast!! Enjoy the BEAST!!

 

That sounds SO COOL

 

Yeah, all things considered, I feel like I'm getting off fairly inexpensively, and my conscience is clear to boot.

Truth be told I was a little conflicted about trying to warranty the trans in the first place, but when I heard numbers like $10k and $13k for the replacement I got scared. Real ****ing scared. It took a lot of time on the phone and several false starts to get to a happy place with the repairs.

But along with the final cost, I've gotten to see inside the guts of the beast a lot better and have found another great resource in Level10 for those of us needing work or rebuilds on the 722.9s. They have a complete rebuild kit and also a service to refit our torque converters with ballsier internals that I might give a try when the new one starts to go, which hopefully won't be for some time now that I have a much better idea of what I can and CAN'T do with the car.

Also, I have much more faith in our transmissions now that I've seen the internals AFTER a meltdown and feel like the real hardware inside them will survive much longer than the consumables like clutches and converters.

And yes, for the price I have to pay, it has been worth every single penny for the enjoyment and entertainment I've gotten out of it thus far.

OMG Keith, you're one demented mother****er, and I love it!

Josh

 

Forget taking it slow or stopping what you're doing. Since you said you might be next in line....you might as well just break it to get a new tranny so you get a fresh start

 

C63 Guy,

Glad you've been able to get your repair handled properly. Question, because I couldn't tell from you posts (unless I missed it) - the parts being replaced in your tranny, are they upgrades from OEM spec, or identical to OEM spec? If the latter, is the former available?

Hope you're back on the road in short-order.

 

Manuals just don't sell like they used to. Look at any post 2003-2004 Ferrari and most likely over 90% don't have manual. I loved the 6 speed on my Viper and can't imagine NOT having it. Somehow seems to be okay on a 4 door to me

 

As a side, I have shipped my entire gear box to Level 10 from Singapore to get my gearbox 'strengthened' and only one word can describe the result: AWESOME!

All i can say is... they are one hella of company and i love them to bits! I went for the highest specs reinforcements and they are first first first class.

Good luck!

 

Can you provide more detail as to what was done in terms of reinforcement? Cost? Time?

How does it feel after the work was completed? Were there any measurable performance gains?

 

Hi, I did mine on my previous ride, a subaru legacy. The 'reinforcement' on that auto gear box is definitely worth it. The pull is much more consistent and much faster. I didn't have the chance to dyno it with solely the gearbox upgrade as I had other mods involved as well. But unmistakeably, the improvement is very obvious!