Leasing options/questions
02-22-2010, 10:44 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Edmunds has your lease payment at $1800. With NY tax. Dont know the tax in NC on cars.
http://www.edmunds.com/calculators/a...tor_index.html
http://www.edmunds.com/calculators/a...tor_index.html
02-23-2010, 07:06 AM
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto
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'13 ML350 BT, '10 C63 (gone)
Wow. Those rates are high!
MB Canada's current rates for finance and lease (12k) are 2.9% and 4.9% respectively on a C63.
Of course we don't get the big discounts you guys do, but at the same time the AMGs don't depreciate as quickly either.
MB Canada's current rates for finance and lease (12k) are 2.9% and 4.9% respectively on a C63.
Of course we don't get the big discounts you guys do, but at the same time the AMGs don't depreciate as quickly either.
02-23-2010, 07:27 AM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Never mind what you got the car for. How much is your payment? You gotta be paying at least 1K a month on that lease. 15K miles a year??? 45K miles on a 3 year old C63. Going by your numbers that baby wont be worth more than 15K. I bet your payment is more like 1200. WOW 15K miles per year?? You are paying out the *** for that lease im sure.
In 36 months I wont owe a dime on my C63 so I guess ill be getting some money back anyhow right?
In 36 months after paying (Insert your payment here) a month how much will you be getting? What kind of tax break on your next purchase? 0.0
So lets figure out that now shall we and we can put this to rest.
How much is your payment? Mine is $1280 a month with 10K down. 4.5% interest for 36 months. My car will be paid in 30 months. I guarantee and will jump off a bridge if in 30 months my car is worth less than 25K. But lets say your right and its worth 20K. I still walk away with 10K AND my 10K down payment. I tuck 10K in the bank and I put 10K down on my next car. Guess what? I paid MAYBE $4400 more than you in total payments but I walk away with my down payment and tuck $5600 in the bank AND get at least a 2-3 thousand tax break on my next purchase.
Tell me again how a lease is better??
In 36 months I wont owe a dime on my C63 so I guess ill be getting some money back anyhow right?
In 36 months after paying (Insert your payment here) a month how much will you be getting? What kind of tax break on your next purchase? 0.0
So lets figure out that now shall we and we can put this to rest.
How much is your payment? Mine is $1280 a month with 10K down. 4.5% interest for 36 months. My car will be paid in 30 months. I guarantee and will jump off a bridge if in 30 months my car is worth less than 25K. But lets say your right and its worth 20K. I still walk away with 10K AND my 10K down payment. I tuck 10K in the bank and I put 10K down on my next car. Guess what? I paid MAYBE $4400 more than you in total payments but I walk away with my down payment and tuck $5600 in the bank AND get at least a 2-3 thousand tax break on my next purchase.
Tell me again how a lease is better??
I pay $818 a month. Not 1200. Not 1700. $818. If I wanted 12k a year it would have been more like $770.
And yes, in 3yrs, with anything over 30k on this car, it won't be worth anything. Like yours...it will depreciate like a boulder. If gas prices are $5 a gallon and interest rates are at 10%.....good luck. Something I dont want to deal with....which is why I leased. This is the fundamental point of leasing an AMG, which you agree with. In my eyes, leasing provided me with LESS of a mileage restriction because as (remember the parameters of wanting to sell the car at 36 months or less) someone who finances the car sees that odometer tick 33k....36k...38k...40k...you are shrinking your buying pool, and literally losing a dollar a mile as you drive it. With a lease...not my concern. I'll see that odo all the way up to 45k and enjoy mile 44,999 as much as I enjoyed mile 1001. Peace of mind.
Let's do the math - in 30 months you will have paid $56k for your car. Great deal if you can afford the monthly payments, but really, thats a great deal. Let's use your example of the car being worth $20k. So you would have paid $36k to drive your car for 36 months ($56k paid - getting $20k in a sale).
My total payments added up are $29448 over 36 months (and I'll only have it for 30 by the way when Mercedes cuts me another deal), plus the $7k I put down so $36,448 for my car for the same time period.
So I pay $448 more over 3 years to drive this car with no worries about future market value...no hassles of selling the car later...no fielding phone calls from kids who want to trade 10 plasma TV's...just walk up, hand in the keys, pick new car, beat them up on that one too, walk out. I'll also have another $6k a year in saved payments in my pocket to invest the way I see fit versus throwing good money after bad.
The tax break you discuss is a moot point since I'll be getting my last 6 payments covered by Mercedes to jump into something new as well as other incentives for continued leasers...it all balances out.
There are all the numbers in black and white. $448 difference. This has quickly become a me vs you argument vs a lease vs finance argument which isnt what it was supposed to be at all dude. I just hope the candor that came out of this with crystal clear numbers helps someone make their decision when they are sitting in the dealer thinking a) is this a good deal and b) should I lease or finance it.
I should also say in addition, you are comparing yourself with a 36 month loan which is advantageous if you are comfortable with the monthly payment. If you do a 60 month loan as originally suggested and factor in the additional interest associated, it makes leasing even more attractive.
Again parameters are you know you are selling this car in 36 months or less. Let's be clear on that.
Hope that helps someone out there
Last edited by rory breaker; 02-23-2010 at 07:50 AM.
02-23-2010, 02:51 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Just a reminder, this isnt me vs you, dont take it personally, this is conversation to hopefully help someone trying to make this decision.
I pay $818 a month. Not 1200. Not 1700. $818. If I wanted 12k a year it would have been more like $770.
And yes, in 3yrs, with anything over 30k on this car, it won't be worth anything. Like yours...it will depreciate like a boulder. If gas prices are $5 a gallon and interest rates are at 10%.....good luck. Something I dont want to deal with....which is why I leased. This is the fundamental point of leasing an AMG, which you agree with. In my eyes, leasing provided me with LESS of a mileage restriction because as (remember the parameters of wanting to sell the car at 36 months or less) someone who finances the car sees that odometer tick 33k....36k...38k...40k...you are shrinking your buying pool, and literally losing a dollar a mile as you drive it. With a lease...not my concern. I'll see that odo all the way up to 45k and enjoy mile 44,999 as much as I enjoyed mile 1001. Peace of mind.
Let's do the math - in 30 months you will have paid $56k for your car. Great deal if you can afford the monthly payments, but really, thats a great deal. Let's use your example of the car being worth $20k. So you would have paid $36k to drive your car for 36 months ($56k paid - getting $20k in a sale).
My total payments added up are $29448 over 36 months (and I'll only have it for 30 by the way when Mercedes cuts me another deal), plus the $7k I put down so $36,448 for my car for the same time period.
So I pay $448 more over 3 years to drive this car with no worries about future market value...no hassles of selling the car later...no fielding phone calls from kids who want to trade 10 plasma TV's...just walk up, hand in the keys, pick new car, beat them up on that one too, walk out. I'll also have another $6k a year in saved payments in my pocket to invest the way I see fit versus throwing good money after bad.
The tax break you discuss is a moot point since I'll be getting my last 6 payments covered by Mercedes to jump into something new as well as other incentives for continued leasers...it all balances out.
There are all the numbers in black and white. $448 difference. This has quickly become a me vs you argument vs a lease vs finance argument which isnt what it was supposed to be at all dude. I just hope the candor that came out of this with crystal clear numbers helps someone make their decision when they are sitting in the dealer thinking a) is this a good deal and b) should I lease or finance it.
I should also say in addition, you are comparing yourself with a 36 month loan which is advantageous if you are comfortable with the monthly payment. If you do a 60 month loan as originally suggested and factor in the additional interest associated, it makes leasing even more attractive.
Again parameters are you know you are selling this car in 36 months or less. Let's be clear on that.
Hope that helps someone out there
I pay $818 a month. Not 1200. Not 1700. $818. If I wanted 12k a year it would have been more like $770.
And yes, in 3yrs, with anything over 30k on this car, it won't be worth anything. Like yours...it will depreciate like a boulder. If gas prices are $5 a gallon and interest rates are at 10%.....good luck. Something I dont want to deal with....which is why I leased. This is the fundamental point of leasing an AMG, which you agree with. In my eyes, leasing provided me with LESS of a mileage restriction because as (remember the parameters of wanting to sell the car at 36 months or less) someone who finances the car sees that odometer tick 33k....36k...38k...40k...you are shrinking your buying pool, and literally losing a dollar a mile as you drive it. With a lease...not my concern. I'll see that odo all the way up to 45k and enjoy mile 44,999 as much as I enjoyed mile 1001. Peace of mind.
Let's do the math - in 30 months you will have paid $56k for your car. Great deal if you can afford the monthly payments, but really, thats a great deal. Let's use your example of the car being worth $20k. So you would have paid $36k to drive your car for 36 months ($56k paid - getting $20k in a sale).
My total payments added up are $29448 over 36 months (and I'll only have it for 30 by the way when Mercedes cuts me another deal), plus the $7k I put down so $36,448 for my car for the same time period.
So I pay $448 more over 3 years to drive this car with no worries about future market value...no hassles of selling the car later...no fielding phone calls from kids who want to trade 10 plasma TV's...just walk up, hand in the keys, pick new car, beat them up on that one too, walk out. I'll also have another $6k a year in saved payments in my pocket to invest the way I see fit versus throwing good money after bad.
The tax break you discuss is a moot point since I'll be getting my last 6 payments covered by Mercedes to jump into something new as well as other incentives for continued leasers...it all balances out.
There are all the numbers in black and white. $448 difference. This has quickly become a me vs you argument vs a lease vs finance argument which isnt what it was supposed to be at all dude. I just hope the candor that came out of this with crystal clear numbers helps someone make their decision when they are sitting in the dealer thinking a) is this a good deal and b) should I lease or finance it.
I should also say in addition, you are comparing yourself with a 36 month loan which is advantageous if you are comfortable with the monthly payment. If you do a 60 month loan as originally suggested and factor in the additional interest associated, it makes leasing even more attractive.
Again parameters are you know you are selling this car in 36 months or less. Let's be clear on that.
Hope that helps someone out there
1280x36 = 46080 + 10000 = 56080 total paid. Trade in value = 25,000 (20K was a bit low for a 36K mile car thats only 3 years old. Its only helping your arguement for no reason other than specualtion, so since were speculating, 25K trade in) Total paid after trade in = 31080
I pay 5368 less for my C63 than you buying rather than leasing. I also get my down payment back and you dont. I also now have 25K. 10K goes to the next car, 15K into the bank. IF and thats a BIG if MB buys 6 months of payments (Rare) than you can recoup some of that loss. But not really because you are paying 818 for the FULL use of the car. Giving it back early is doing them a favor allowing them to sell it for more money and your still out for your higher payment. PLUS you will have to give anothet 7K to get into another car.
So the 5K less plus your 7K downpayment. $12368 just in case I get into an accident or the value drops horribly? I think that 12K will cover it and ill take my chances and keep the 12K insurance policy just in case. If nothing happens its money in my pocket.
On top of all of that I also get a tax benifit from selling my car back to the dealer saving me about 2K in taxes on my next purcahse. On top of all the sweet deals MB will cut me for ALSO being a continued customer. Unless you can come up with a way of putting $14,368 back into your pocket when you get your next car the lease is by far the worst deal.
Last edited by propain; 02-23-2010 at 03:01 PM.
02-23-2010, 03:50 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Any time I post up numbers you come back and just break them down further to prove your point ("well I said $20k, but no that proves your point so $25k is better"). I no longer have the time or patience to continue this conversation in this manner - I've posted up my deal, gleam from it what you wish. In 3 years, when you go to sell your car and get pennies on the dollar for it, and when your odometer starts to flash into the mid 30k's and you start driving another car because you are worried that no one will want a 45000 mile AMG and it will take forever to sell, then maybe you'll see why leasing isnt such a bad option.
You seem to be an expert on everything - you are a master negotiator that negotiated a better deal than me (until I posted mine up) and you know MB's 6 month offer is "rare" (when the GM of my dealer has already offered it to me).
Also, in what world do you get your down payment back? You paid $56k for the car including your DP and interest. You trade it back in for $25k - that means you paid $31k. You dont get your $10k down payment back on top of that unless there is something Im missing, which I am curious about here if so.
Again - the delta here is the disagreement on how much the car will be worth in 3 years. There is a $5k discrepancy - one that can easily be eaten up by all the external factors I listed out numerous times (accidents, interest rates, gas prices, the reality of what the car really will be worth versus an emotional fantasy, opportunity cost to sell the car, etc) - to me its more like $1-$2k hard tangible dollars (in fact, $30 a month over 3 years, to be exact). Thats $1-$2k that can be made up by the interest I'll make on the $18k I saved in monthly payments that you didnt. It can also be made up by the hours I'll save not selling my car.
We can go on about this forever dude, Im content knowing that the data i posted up clearly articulates that leasing, for some people who fit the stated description, is the way to go. For anyone who is more curious than to just accept blanket statements like "financing rules, leasing is always a bad idea" and examines the pros and cons, they may likely find value as I have.
You seem to be an expert on everything - you are a master negotiator that negotiated a better deal than me (until I posted mine up) and you know MB's 6 month offer is "rare" (when the GM of my dealer has already offered it to me).
Also, in what world do you get your down payment back? You paid $56k for the car including your DP and interest. You trade it back in for $25k - that means you paid $31k. You dont get your $10k down payment back on top of that unless there is something Im missing, which I am curious about here if so.
Again - the delta here is the disagreement on how much the car will be worth in 3 years. There is a $5k discrepancy - one that can easily be eaten up by all the external factors I listed out numerous times (accidents, interest rates, gas prices, the reality of what the car really will be worth versus an emotional fantasy, opportunity cost to sell the car, etc) - to me its more like $1-$2k hard tangible dollars (in fact, $30 a month over 3 years, to be exact). Thats $1-$2k that can be made up by the interest I'll make on the $18k I saved in monthly payments that you didnt. It can also be made up by the hours I'll save not selling my car.
We can go on about this forever dude, Im content knowing that the data i posted up clearly articulates that leasing, for some people who fit the stated description, is the way to go. For anyone who is more curious than to just accept blanket statements like "financing rules, leasing is always a bad idea" and examines the pros and cons, they may likely find value as I have.
02-23-2010, 04:16 PM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
Any time I post up numbers you come back and just break them down further to prove your point ("well I said $20k, but no that proves your point so $25k is better"). I no longer have the time or patience to continue this conversation in this manner - I've posted up my deal, gleam from it what you wish. In 3 years, when you go to sell your car and get pennies on the dollar for it, and when your odometer starts to flash into the mid 30k's and you start driving another car because you are worried that no one will want a 45000 mile AMG and it will take forever to sell, then maybe you'll see why leasing isnt such a bad option.
I am only basing my numbers on actual facts. 36 Month – Residual 51% of MSRP. That number is a forecast of what the car will be worth in 36 month AND 45K miles. Do the math. Im not inventing these numbers. The genius bankers who created your lease did. Going by those people who know a HELL of alot more about depreciation than both of us combined say it will be worth 34K. NOT 20K.
Take a look at the E63 we both were looking at. The bid did end without making reserve though but it was bid up to 40200. That is a real number someone was willing to pay. Thats approx 43% residual. Lets use that number on the C63 price tag now. 30K. A good guess based on real numbers would be that the C63 will sell for about 25K using that 30K as a guide. The reason is that the E63 has better miles so it will get 5K more in the sale so I minus the 5K from the C63. 25K. If you can come up with a better way to figure out what the C63 will be worth in 3 years have at it. Id love to hear it.
You seem to be an expert on everything - you are a master negotiator that negotiated a better deal than me (until I posted mine up) and you know MB's 6 month offer is "rare" (when the GM of my dealer has already offered it to me).
Not an expert on everything. Money however is my thing.
You seem bitter that your not as smart as you think you are. Real numbers hurt. Call my dealer if you dont believe me. Hell, Ill be happy to scan my invoice. Right after you scan yours for me to see. Edit: sorry I read it as general motors. But the qestion still stands. The GM at MB has already offered you a 6 month pull ahead on your 2009 car? LOL
Also, in what world do you get your down payment back? You paid $56k for the car including your DP and interest. You trade it back in for $25k - that means you paid $31k. You dont get your $10k down payment back on top of that unless there is something Im missing, which I am curious about here if so.
I paid 46080K for the car plus 10K in downpayment. I owe 0 after 36 months. I sell the car for 25K. Thats 25K in my pocket. My 10K down Plus 15K. So yes, after I sell it, 31K is my total ownership cost. My total loss on the car is 31K. Thats a better way of putting it. 31K in the garbage.
Again - the delta here is the disagreement on how much the car will be worth in 3 years. There is a $5k discrepancy - one that can easily be eaten up by all the external factors I listed out numerous times (accidents, interest rates, gas prices, the reality of what the car really will be worth versus an emotional fantasy, opportunity cost to sell the car, etc) - to me its more like $1-$2k hard tangible dollars (in fact, $30 a month over 3 years, to be exact). Thats $1-$2k that can be made up by the interest I'll make on the $18k I saved in monthly payments that you didnt. It can also be made up by the hours I'll save not selling my car.
5K plus your 7K down payment that you will never see again. 12K in room for accidents and extra depreciation almost 20% greater than MB is forecasting on your lease. Thats a big reach my friend.
We can go on about this forever dude, Im content knowing that the data i posted up clearly articulates that leasing, for some people who fit the stated description, is the way to go. For anyone who is more curious than to just accept blanket statements like "financing rules, leasing is always a bad idea" and examines the pros and cons, they may likely find value as I have.
I agree. You dont seem like you will ever get it. I agree leasing is a good option for people buying cars. Its a horrible idea when buying a AMG MB. A car that holds its value? Sure, Your payment will be about 30% less than a finance WITHOUT a down payment. You paid 7K to lower your payment on a car with huge depreciation that is included in your payment. In the end you wont have anything to show for it.
Again, A lease works in some cases when the car has amazing lease incentives. That is NOT the case with AMG cars. Its a horrid idea. Im not saying it to make fun of you. Im saying it to warn anyone who is thinking about it.
I am only basing my numbers on actual facts. 36 Month – Residual 51% of MSRP. That number is a forecast of what the car will be worth in 36 month AND 45K miles. Do the math. Im not inventing these numbers. The genius bankers who created your lease did. Going by those people who know a HELL of alot more about depreciation than both of us combined say it will be worth 34K. NOT 20K.
Take a look at the E63 we both were looking at. The bid did end without making reserve though but it was bid up to 40200. That is a real number someone was willing to pay. Thats approx 43% residual. Lets use that number on the C63 price tag now. 30K. A good guess based on real numbers would be that the C63 will sell for about 25K using that 30K as a guide. The reason is that the E63 has better miles so it will get 5K more in the sale so I minus the 5K from the C63. 25K. If you can come up with a better way to figure out what the C63 will be worth in 3 years have at it. Id love to hear it.
You seem to be an expert on everything - you are a master negotiator that negotiated a better deal than me (until I posted mine up) and you know MB's 6 month offer is "rare" (when the GM of my dealer has already offered it to me).
Not an expert on everything. Money however is my thing.
You seem bitter that your not as smart as you think you are. Real numbers hurt. Call my dealer if you dont believe me. Hell, Ill be happy to scan my invoice. Right after you scan yours for me to see. Edit: sorry I read it as general motors. But the qestion still stands. The GM at MB has already offered you a 6 month pull ahead on your 2009 car? LOL
Also, in what world do you get your down payment back? You paid $56k for the car including your DP and interest. You trade it back in for $25k - that means you paid $31k. You dont get your $10k down payment back on top of that unless there is something Im missing, which I am curious about here if so.
I paid 46080K for the car plus 10K in downpayment. I owe 0 after 36 months. I sell the car for 25K. Thats 25K in my pocket. My 10K down Plus 15K. So yes, after I sell it, 31K is my total ownership cost. My total loss on the car is 31K. Thats a better way of putting it. 31K in the garbage.
Again - the delta here is the disagreement on how much the car will be worth in 3 years. There is a $5k discrepancy - one that can easily be eaten up by all the external factors I listed out numerous times (accidents, interest rates, gas prices, the reality of what the car really will be worth versus an emotional fantasy, opportunity cost to sell the car, etc) - to me its more like $1-$2k hard tangible dollars (in fact, $30 a month over 3 years, to be exact). Thats $1-$2k that can be made up by the interest I'll make on the $18k I saved in monthly payments that you didnt. It can also be made up by the hours I'll save not selling my car.
5K plus your 7K down payment that you will never see again. 12K in room for accidents and extra depreciation almost 20% greater than MB is forecasting on your lease. Thats a big reach my friend.
We can go on about this forever dude, Im content knowing that the data i posted up clearly articulates that leasing, for some people who fit the stated description, is the way to go. For anyone who is more curious than to just accept blanket statements like "financing rules, leasing is always a bad idea" and examines the pros and cons, they may likely find value as I have.
I agree. You dont seem like you will ever get it.
I agree leasing is a good option for people buying cars. Its a horrible idea when buying a AMG MB. A car that holds its value? Sure, Your payment will be about 30% less than a finance WITHOUT a down payment. You paid 7K to lower your payment on a car with huge depreciation that is included in your payment. In the end you wont have anything to show for it.Again, A lease works in some cases when the car has amazing lease incentives. That is NOT the case with AMG cars. Its a horrid idea. Im not saying it to make fun of you. Im saying it to warn anyone who is thinking about it.
You have the floor for the last word.
Last edited by propain; 02-23-2010 at 04:20 PM.
