superlubricity

I certainly wasn't expecting 20-25 with the manifolds. It performed a bit better a week ago under more favorable conditions. I was down 5/5 across the curve yesterday.

There is a complete review here -> https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...folds-c63.html

miami1lt

That's right, remember reading that you expectations were tempered a bit...

I'm not disappointed in any of the results you guys posted...seems like the gains are there.

I just can't decide if the LT Headers are worth it. I want to pick up about another 25hp and get some good sound gains.

I was thinking of the Kleemann K2 upgrade, but for another $2K, it almost seems that doing MHP LT headers will give that much more power.

JADE46

Great numbers!!!

KCviper

Great information. i am considering K1 soon, so this helps!!

C63newdude

The long tube headers are power worthy but not soo much money worthy but it all depends if you are willing to let go $4500 on long tube headers.
I purcahsed a set of long tube headers for my C6 Z06 for $1695 and I though it was a rip off but now compoared to the mercedes price they seem like a bargain.

Modding the Benz is going to be pricy.

rarfinancial

I'm installing another set of Long Tubes this week to test and dyno. I will update you when I get some data. Yes, LT's will always give you some good HP/TQ..

Sincity

I wonder how many Z06 owners mod their cars? I know this pricing subject/strategy has been beaten to death but that is like buying white tube socks at WalMart vs. Neiman Marcus.

miami1lt

Would highly recommend it...saw the gains on the dyno and real world too.

Just posted a youtube video run doing a 70-130mph today...and I did a frame-by-frame when I got home, and from the time the needle first moved off of 70 to the time it first hit 130 was exactly 9.07 secs...if you factor in a 50-85mph run that I did (also linked), and extract the .9 secs from 60-70mph, that means it was a 9.97 sec 60-130...pretty good with just a K1 I think....as I think the stock car is nearly 1 sec slower...and this time is better than an M5/M6 and some other beasts! Also, of note, it was slightly up hill the last 20 mph...but you can't tell by how fast it was still climbing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea4eB...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCHvHrgeMe4

kuta01

IMHO, an ECU Tune (kleeman or other reputable tuner) is the best / most cost effective single power mod you can make on a C63. Other mods can easily be layered on top in the future.

Just find a mod freindly SA for service (ie he/she will tell you in advance if they were planning to reflash the ECU).

Enjoy the extra power the C63 should have had from the start

James@ACG

Looks like it was a great even wayne!!!

Wish I could have made it... next time

Hi Shawn, I can help you with that...

Even Money

I can't seem to find out for sure, but if this dyno was intertia based, the extra 4 lbs or so of my winter tires might explain my lower readings, especially trouble hooking up on the low end for the torque numbers.

I'll definitely want to go back when I get the summer rims/tires setup in about 4 or 5 weeks..

avengerboater

Aaah, yes!!!

slownrusty

Avenger - Awesome number 466whp...WOW! and great photos of your car, looks fabulous in red!
Yasin

avengerboater

Thanks, slownrusty! Now, if I can only fix these lean AFRs...

Mort

And lose hp? NA 12.8 - 13.1 is good don't you think?

Dads C63

Good Morning - Question: Are you still enjoying the car with this new found power?? HA! HA! HA! HA!

The only way you can solve the A/F problems is to get the tune from MHP. You may potentially lose a few HP but it would be safer. To answer the other question concerning whether 12.8-13.2 is safe is if you know where the timing is. Usually thats okay for a N/A motor but I don't know where the timing is set for that tune. Push up the timing and its not okay. Bring the timing down and its fine. Good luck and just keep enjoying your car!! These cars are a BLAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

superlubricity

Here is the A/F data from avengerboater's best pull. He is rightfully concerned, especially with the spike up top.

Run Date: 2/27/2010 4:38:50 PM

RunFile_016.drf: 70.53 °F 29.71 in-Hg Humidity: 31 % SAE: 0.98 Average Gear Ratio: 40.05

s RPM x1000 Air/Fuel
0.18 2.40 13.95
0.44 2.50 13.97
0.69 2.60 14.03
0.94 2.70 13.90
1.18 2.80 13.83
1.41 2.90 13.81
1.62 3.00 13.67
1.85 3.10 13.69
2.09 3.20 13.75
2.33 3.30 13.80
2.57 3.40 13.81
2.81 3.50 13.79
3.03 3.60 13.76
3.25 3.70 13.77
3.47 3.80 13.78
3.69 3.90 13.75
3.92 4.00 13.84
4.12 4.10 13.82
4.34 4.20 13.88
4.54 4.30 13.82
4.74 4.40 13.69
4.95 4.50 13.57
5.19 4.60 13.51
5.42 4.70 13.53
5.64 4.80 13.38
5.86 4.90 13.13
6.07 5.00 13.00
6.29 5.10 13.04
6.51 5.20 13.14
6.72 5.30 13.12
6.95 5.40 13.08
7.19 5.50 12.97
7.41 5.60 13.01
7.65 5.70 13.09
7.88 5.80 13.08
8.12 5.90 13.12
8.35 6.00 13.13
8.61 6.10 13.53
8.86 6.20 13.55
9.11 6.30 13.09
9.37 6.40 12.96
9.65 6.50 13.12
9.92 6.60 13.11
10.19 6.70 13.08

Attached graph shows the A/F before/after the long tubes on the same car from 70-170 MPH. Top line is after the headers and K2 tune. Bottom line is K1 tune only.

Mort

That spike looks out of place. Did it do it on all the runs? Any idea what is causing it? Mechanical issue or problem with the tune?

Did you log for KR and if so did you see any?

Not knowing the timing does not help but my guess is that the tune is on the conservative side for safety sake on the tuners part.

MHP may be the way to go with the tune as it is their headers.

Now that you have some logged data with the headers Kleemann may be able to work with you to bring the tune into line with your current mods. Most Chevy tuners will do that for you but these MB Tuners seem to be a bit different.

Mort

Maybe it is time for some logging software and a WBO2. Then you will know what the AFR and timing is for sure and if you are getting any KR as well. To log KR you will need software that supports enhanced MB parameters or a stand alone meter.

Modding is fun! Modding is fun! Modding is fun! Just keep saying it really...

There is no end in sight...

avengerboater

Thanks for posting the info, superlubricity.

The AFR was much leaner than the other cars, even the one running MHP V3 tune was much richer than mine--and he's running the same headers, albeit with high flow cats.

I do not know the timing either, and there was no data logging at the dyno, but that spike in AFR correlated with a dip in hp is undoubtedly a knock.

The spike was there for almost every single run in 4th and 5th at WOT, and they all occurred around the same rpm range--6200 to 6700, with AFRs ranging in the mid to high 13:1. One run even hit 14.02 around 6700rpm! Keep in mind, this was on a dyno, with insufficient air blowing into the car. In real life, on the streets, running my car in similar manner would have me at 140mph or more (5th gear WOT hit 180mph at 6500rpm on the dyno) and the car would have even more air flowing into the car, thus the AFR would be even leaner on the streets. Now, if that's not a cause for concern, then I don't know what is.

Anyway, I'm getting a reflash again with Kleemann and we'll see how it goes. I did send the data to Cory immediately after that day and he said it was unusual, he's never seen a 63 run like that.

Here is a graph of all my runs with the K2 map and MHP LTs. Check out the AFRs and see for your self. Runs 15 and 16 were done in 5th, all other runs were done in 4th.

Dads C63

You should NOT be surprised at the A/F readings with the new L/T headers. You picked up a boat load or air flow and power and had NO correction made in the tunes. I ran the MKB shorty headers and stage II tune originally and changed to the MHP L/T's and it went way lean just like yours did. MHP had to add a great deal of fuel(nearly 2 points) to bring it down where it needed to be. You need to get the tune that matches the headers so you'll be safe.

avengerboater

I completely agree, sir. It was just a lot more lean than I had hoped for. Kleemann usually tunes with shorty headers and high-flow cats in mind, so it was a bit expected to see the AFRs go up, but to that degree, it just really concerned me.

I'll throw the car on the dyno this Friday and see how the new flash goes.

hhughes1

The AFR on my car actually got even richer after installing the Long Tubes in place of the shorties???? The spike in my graph is consistent in every pull with the Lts and power increases as the afr leans out although it is more of a hicup than anything else. The chart you posted with multiple pulls seems to have significantly different a/f 's from one run to the next....do you know where the reading was being taken?

superlubricity

Off topic: I'd love to see the data from that run hhuges1. Can you get the runfile? You picked up 20-25 HP across the board and then "bam" you get a lean spike and power jumps up another ~25 HP for less than 500 RPM up top. Really odd that it is happening every run. It doesn't seem "right"

BTW, that "hiccup" is the only place you picked up your 44RWHP gain vs. K2.

superlubricity

I can log your timing and knock retard with my AutoEnginuity OBDII software on Friday.