superlubricity

We just finished another great dyno day up here in Seattle. Like before, I'd like to thank to the Alex and John at Carb Connection in Kirkland, Washington for hosting.

We had 10+ cars on the rollers today. I've summarized the results of the four C63s that ran today.

Photos can be found here -> https://mbworld.org/forums/pacific-n...ii-photos.html

Thanks to TWiTCHY for shooting our event! A few folks even shot some videos so stay tuned!

On to the results . . .

Conditions:

64-70 Degrees F
29.70 in-Hg
30-40% Humidity
Dynojet Model 424xLC2
SAE Correction Factor and Smoothing 5

4th Gear Pulls:

avengerboater - 2010 C63 (Kleemann K2 Tune, MHP Long-Tube Headers, No Cats, K&N Filters, No Charcoals)

• 455.04 RWHP / 415.88 RWTQ (A/F of 13.20 @ 6000 RPM)
• 451.25 RWHP / 410.32 RWTQ (A/F of 12.98 @ 6000 RPM)

nrgy - 2008 C63 (MHP V3 Tune, MHP Long-Tube Headers w/ MHP High Flow Cats, Carbonio Intake and Air Filters)

• 437.93 RWHP / 400.34 RWTQ (A/F of 12.50 @ 6000 RPM)
• 435.34 RWHP / 395.61 RWTQ (A/F of 12.53 @ 6000 RPM)

superlubricity - 2010 C63 (Kleemann K1 Tune, PLM Exhaust Manifolds, No Charcoals)

• 427.87 RWHP / 390.62 RWTQ (A/F of 12.70 @ 6000 RPM)
• 429.31 RWHP / 387.94 RWTQ (A/F of 12.59 @ 6000 RPM)

Even Money - 2009 C63 (Kleemann K1 Tune, No Charcoals)

• 404.52 RWHP / 361.19 RWTQ (A/F of 12.55 @ 6000 RPM)

5th Gear Pulls:

avengerboater - 2010 C63 (Kleemann K2 Tune, MHP Headers, No Cats, K&N Filters, No Charcoals)

• 465.95 RWHP / 430.07 RWTQ (A/F of 13.38 @ 6000 RPM)
• 465.67 RWHP / 428.58 RWTQ (A/F of 13.13 @ 6000 RPM)

nrgy - 2008 C63 (MHP V3 Tune, MHP Headers w/ MHP High Flow Cats, Carbonio Intake and Filters)

• 441.45 RWHP / 413.70 RWTQ (A/F of 12.10 @ 6000 RPM)

superlubricity - 2010 C63 (Kleemann K1 Tune, PLM Manifolds, No Charcoals)

• 430.33 RWHP / 398.53 RWTQ (A/F of 12.51 @ 6000 RPM)

Graphs:

All four with our best 4th gear pulls.


All three that ran 5th gear pulls.


nrgy's best 4th/5th gear pull.


avengerboater's best 4th/5th gear pull.


Even Money's best 4th gear pull.


I had a great time hanging with you guys today! We'll certainly be doing this again in a couple months.

c32AMG-DTM

Very thorough and detailed analysis and results - sounds like a good time to boot.

rarfinancial

Glad to see you guys had a blast.. Thanks for the data..

RLx02

I don't think I should ever have went. I think all modding has come to a grinding halt and am now on the crossroads between the c63 or a SL/CLS55...considering bob put down 475/515? while retaining his cats and sounding stock!!!

avengerboater

Yaaahooo!!! Superlube rocks!! Thanks for posting the info, sir!

Now, I can't wait to do some laps and 1/4-miles this spring! I should've gotten that LSD option.

avengerboater

Buy both! Hahaha.

C63newdude

Lets get this straight, doing pulls in 5th gear gets you the highest reading? WOW!!. The dyno numbers between 4th and 5th gear pulls are significant.

Another observation is Superlubricity output with his little mods vs NRGY with major mods, the difference is not that great between the two. It looks like avengerboat gained a solid 36whp with the addition of headers and K2(429 whp before and 465 whp now).

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...2010-c63s.html

Sincity

Superlubricity: Your PLM manifolds w/stock cats vs nrgy's MHP LT w/high-flow cats @ 4th gear is not that far off. Does Nrgy still have his charcoals? I wish there was a "all Kleemann" K2 there.

nrgy

Awesome post Superlubricity! Very thorough analysis for all to see. It was great to finally meet everyone, though I wished I had arrived sooner as I missed some people and didn't get a chance to meet everyone. But I'm sure will be doing something again soon.

As for the results, I was a little surprised at my numbers, but after analyzing it a bit they make sense. I was expecting to put down 460 whp, or at least hoping to anyway...but I think there are several things to consider. First off, I am running 19" wheels which I'm guessing zaps some hp, as they are a little bit heavier than stock 18". I was told to be aggressive driving the car before arriving at the dyno, however I didn't get a chance to do that and it sat for 1-1/2 weeks until today. I just hopped into the car and drove straight to the dyno without doing any WOT. It's very evident that the ECU will adapt the more WOT runs you do, as each dyno run kept putting out more HP. I'm sure if I would've run a few more times I would've picked up more, although probably not a whole lot.

But yes, I did not expect the 300 cpi high flow cats to rob that much HP. It sure doesn't sound restrictive, but it appears they are partly responsible for the 25 whp difference between me and Avengerboater.

I believe all of us were running without charcoal filters and also using high flow filters. I am using the foam filters that came with the Carbonio though which I hear are crap. I'll probably be replacing them with BMCs like Super is using. But I didn't expect the Carbonio airbox itself to provide any gains, just look pretty.

As far as Superlubricity goes, yeah he seems to have a real healthy C63! I think everyone is curious to see what he puts down if/when he gets his cats removed.

One thing I am very happy about however are my AFR's. High 11's and low 12's I'm told is safe and where I want to be at, so that gives me peace of mind knowing I won't blow up my engine! I've been wondering what they were and now I finally know.

hhughes1

Moral of the story is quite simple:
With a fairly minor investment(some tunes are less than the c/f interior trim option) you can safely have the C63 Sport Sedan that MB should have produced. With proper tires for either the strip or a road course, these cars are very competitive with everything in this price range as well as some much more expensive hardware.

Congrats on the numbers, it's great to see you guys getting together and enjoying your cars. Thanks for sharing.

superlubricity

I am actually using the OEM/Paper air filters. I took the BMCs out after the Kleemann tune. I didn't see much of a power difference.

I'll probably throw them back in when I try out the Euro Airboxes.

clktoc63

Great stuff guys, this may be the most useful dyno information posted with the array of data points, same day, same dyno, assuming same operator. Thanks!

It seems that this further substantiates the issue of those freak'n cats! Does anyone have dyno numbers with a tune and a downpipe that eliminates all 4 cats? Will a vendor finally step up and make this?

I have a K1 tune programmed for (all 4) cat deletes and have been waiting for a cost effective way to make some horsepower!! It seems that I could get 75% of the gains without spending the mega bucks for a set of long tubes (which I'd love, just can't justify) by just losing the cats.

Am I alone???

peh-amg

Why did "Even Money" only pull 405 RWHP with a K1 tune? Seems low. Others typically get 420+. Any explanation?

superlubricity

You are not alone and this is the exact project I'm working on. It's quite ironic you brought this up. This was the hot topic at the dyno day.

Just like on the E60 M5/M6, the primary cats are evil.

superlubricity

Without a baseline it's tough to tell. His A/F was spot-on but like you mentioned, his power/torque curves were certainly a bit lower than what I and avengerboater saw with the same tune.

peh-amg

I intend to get a K1 tune soon (when the snow has gone) and I was sold on it when I saw yours and "Avengerboaters" dyno numbers. However, after seeing "even moneys" numbers I am a little concerned. I always thought that the Kleeman tunes were very consistant so it must be his motor that is the difference. Pity he doesn't have a base line to compare to.

clktoc63

That's great news! Glad it was discussed at length during the pulls. I'd be looking for a simple 4 cat delete pipe that connects manifolds to resonator (and can be switched back if needed). That way, we keep the factory equalization tube (resonator) and would likely make great sound and power.

Fill us in, what do you guys have in mind?

superlubricity

That is exactly what I'm having fabricated. Are you sure you weren't there listening?

Even Money

I ran on a Mustang dyno over at dyno authority last Sep. 362/360. So I got about 42 rwhp gain, although that's comparing two different dynos. Sure, was hoping for more. Think I'm gonna go over to the other place and do a run there to see how that works out. I'll post that, sometime next week?

It was a great day, super did a nice job. It was more than worth the trip to hear avenger's car at WOT. That's what I need!

miami1lt

I don't know anybody getting 420+ whp with a K1 tune at SAE 5 smoothing. I pulled 400 whp on the nose (just one pull), but with different settings on the dyno (like STD and smoothing 3), you can easily get it to show 415 whp.

400whp with the settings is pretty typical from what I've seen (experienced)

BerBer63

It's not about your peak numbers, stop wasting time and comparing cars on different coasts, days, operators, octane levels, wheel size. It's all about the change from baseline. 40-50rwhp is what kleeman states and that's what you get.

avengerboater

Yes, Will, please post the data after hopping on that Mustang Dyno and let us know what you get. Superlube and I dynoed at 372whp at baseline on the same day, same dyno, within minutes of each other. So, your gains aren't off by that much. But still, both our cars on the dyno that you were on yesterday yielded 423whp in 4th gear, which gave us a delta of about 49rwhp. So, I don't know what's going on. Like you've said, different dyno, different days, different conditions, etc, but the gains are not off by that much.


This is what we got: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...2010-c63s.html

That was with SAE 5 smoothing and the results were consistent with both cars. But then again, comparing results from different dynos on diff days, conditions, cars, etc is a bit subjective. It's all about the delta.

avengerboater

Dads C63

Hey Guys,
CONGRATS!! Great numbers!! I am sure your "butt dyno" gives you the same feeling the actual dyno gave you. These cars are a BLAST!!
Hope we can all race together some time!! Maybe this summer at MIR.

Its great to see all of you enjoying your cars!!! Thats what its all about.

miami1lt

Avenger...you and superlube do a great job showing all the data...appreciate your inputs, as it makes it much easier to "shop" parts after seeing your results...and agree, the delta is the key (picked up 39whp in 4th gear and 49whp in 5th gear from the K1 tune on same dyno, pretty much same conditions...so happy and as advertised).

So with your baseline numbers, are you and superlube happy or not? Particularly superlube, who only picked up 7whp...would have expected him to gain about 20-25whp with his setup.

And appreciate the feedback on noise-level...sounds like the real growl is only above 3K RPMs anyway, so patroling at 25mph (base speed limits) shouldn't get me in trouble.