Powerchip

We had a board member visit us in socal and we read the P31 software in the C63.

It was VERY VERY close to a 2011 E63 software version, so it didnt provide any breakthroughs we were hoping for

Unfortunately, there is nothing graphical really to post that is interesting

What it provides is the knowledge that there is nothing 'special' about the P31 software, and similiar power gains that are achieved on a 2011 E63 should be possible on a P31 C63.

Our competitors currently claim up to 50 wheel hp over stock on a 2011 E63
http://oetuning.com/blog/?tag=e63-amg-dyno on cali 91 octane

Im not sure how much we get on a C63 P31 because we have not completed any dyno testing yet, but I am sure it wont be 50hp over stock

SonnyakaPig

Also, the E63's larger diameter exhaust tubing likely helps the engine make more power. So, it does make sense that a stock E63 can be tuned to make more power than a stock P31 C63.

splinter

Perhaps the gist of my post was misinterpreted. Thought you might have already shared your results.

DuaneC63

My only concern with flashing a C63 is that I understand the removal of the ECU needed to flash it can be detected as well as it being flashed (unlike some cars that can be flashed throught the OBD2 and returned to the stock file without anyone being the wiser). If something serious goes wrong with the ECU or drive train post flash, even going back to stock won't cover your tracks. If the dealer service department checks, who knows if they would cover related warranty issues. I'd love to get another 50hp but not at the expense of compromising the drive train warranty. Any of the tuners have a solution for this?

c32AMG-DTM

For what you specifically ask... no, there is no comprehensive solution for C63's.

FWIW, I'm of the opinion that very, very few cars can actually be tuned "back to stock" leaving literally zero trace that anything changed. Best advice IMHO: If you tune a car during the factory warranty period, just be prepared that an engine/drivetrain issue is coming out of your pocket, not the dealer/manufacturer's.

The closest thing to a solution for what you ask is buying a spare ECU and having it VIN-coded to your vehicle, then having that one tuned and leaving your stock ECU... well, stock.

Wanted to give you a solid answer instead of just "STFF" - that said, this has been discussed a lot, if you care to read up on other threads on the matter.

splinter

+1, although Powerchip recently claimed otherwise. :nix:

blackc230benzo

Speedriven have a block tuner for the c63 that can swap between stock and their tune file

DuaneC63

They all claim you can't tell. But my understanding is the ECU has to be removed and opened up. The dealer can tell if this has been done even if reflashed to stock. If the tuners believe they can get by this, how can they prove it.

c32AMG-DTM

AFAIK, they still need you to send them the ECU so they can crack it open and "unlock" it so that the block tuner can function via OBDii. So, if the dealer ever had reason to physically remove the ECU from the vehicle, I believe they could tell that it had been opened previously. Cue the awkward conversation with your SA...

In order...

Yes, they do. They don't want people to worry (and not buy something) when you're talking about that 0.0001% chance of some failure and subsequent warranty issue/battle with MBUSA.

That's my understanding as well (that it has to be opened up).

Yes, I believe the dealer can tell if it has been done, even if reflashed to stock. Also, there *might* be flash-counters and/or firmware codes that don't match any ECU coding work done by an authorized MB technician, which MB may (or may not) have records for sake of comparison.

Catch 22... ideally, the tuners won't have to prove it, because ideally their customers won't experience a catastrophic engine failure. In fact, to date, I don't believe any tuner can "prove" that their ECU tune causes no issues with the engine/drivetrain warranty... because they haven't had a tuned car go in and successfully get repaired for failures of either of those concerns. Which is a good thing - but leaves this discussion of "will a tune affect my warranty?" on an infinite loop.

c32AMG-DTM

A placebo perhaps? That would be undetectable, by the dealer or anyone else.

blackc230benzo

If you look online the block tuners instructions just say you plug it in, it reads your ecu. You email the file to speedriven, then you get a new file emailed back to you.
But it could still be required to send the ecu out beforehand. I believe they are on this forum if someone is really interested you could pm them.

Powerchip

There is a flash tool made by a guy called Bill Hart who was posting on this forum under 'lolachampcar' after he had completed the development of his tool.

Renntech began selling the tool first.

Dynocomp then started to sell the tool.

Then he met Jeremy from OE Tuning and they sell the tool under the name 'EZ Flash'

Renntech then stopped selling the tool.

Speedriven now sell the tool.

Until Bill Hart resolves the RSA encryption issue, the ECU on the Mercedes ME9.7 that 63 cars use needs to be opened prior to any flash.

That goes for all the people that resell his tool.

Powerchip

Happy to confirm specifically that the dealer Star tool is not currently able to detect any brand of aftermarket software that has no errors in the code.

All the car (and the Star tool) really does it to determine the checksum and if the ECU thinks the checksum is correct then the check engine light turns off after the car is started.

If the ECU was sent to Germany for forensic examination then I accept that a senior calibration engineer could compare the stock file against what was read from the car and determine that changes have been made to the car.

I have never heard of that happening but I guess its possible.

When I get my car serviced |I have never been advised that the ECU has been modified.

As long as a professional tune is purchased, I dont see why a service department has any need to go looking for a modified ECU at all.

All of the tunes by sponsors of this board I would trust to not be detected by a Star tool at a dealer.

Dealers dont have access to SCN calibration databases, and we doubt they ever will.

Powerchip

Yes, I believe the dealer can tell if it has been done, even if reflashed to stock. Also, there *might* be flash-counters and/or firmware codes that don't match any ECU coding work done by an authorized MB technician, which MB may (or may not) have records for sake of comparison.

When an ME9.7 is programmed on the bench with BDM equipment, it does NOT change the flash counter

We dont know what Bill Harts tool does, we have never used one

GT500

Any update? MY 11 P31's waiting for your answer.