Powerchip

Powerchip is looking for a boardmember that would like to assist us in obtaining a reading of the stock P31 engine ECU.

Our aim is to offer a new option for C63 customers that are looking for a calibration that has factory ignition and fuel mapping, but includes just the changes Mercedes makes to the throttle opening (and other as yet unknown changes to what is changed on the P31 calibration).

Our facility is in Costa Messa, if anyone is within driving distance, it would really help us being able to read the car.

There is no obligation to purchase an upgrade for the car, we just want to read the car.

We would provide a free dyno run on a dynojet dyno that car be shared with boardmembers.

Our office number is 949 646 1026 or email matt@powerchipgroup.com and mention this post

0700700

I wonder why you plan on transplanting the P31 Ecu. I am sure you are aware the P31-optioned engine is different to the one found in the normal C63


source : http://www.worldcarfans.com/10910212...-plus-revealed

c32AMG-DTM

So, the goal is to read out the AMG P31 code for free from a local P31 owner, and then turn around and sell AMG's P31 calibration via the aftermarket to non-P31 owners?

While I'm admittedly no expert in determining the legality of such a transaction, it does seem, I dunno, rather unethical... doesn't it?

Why not just "water-down" your standard "Stage 1" Powerchip 63 calibration file to be similiar ignition and fuel maps as any stock E63, CLS63, S63, etc, and sell it cheaper... Stage 0, just freeing up the TB restriction in C63s?

Powerchip

We don't assume what is in a calibration unless we have primary information to confirm it.

In the case of the P31 calibration, I would expect consumers would want Powerchip to speak with authority regarding what is different in the maps.

We can't speak with authority until our in house engineers examine the differences.

I don't think it will be too dissimilar to an E63 calibration, but who knows until we confirm our suspicions.

There is a lot of speculation and assumption in the "chiptuning" industry.

In relation to the comments regarding the moral issues surrounding looking at a factory calibration and examining what has been done and why, I personally don't see that as a huge issue. If chiptuners want to remain competitive and relevant, we need to look at factory changes that are made.

We simply offer an alternative for consumers that don't want to purchase a new P31 car because they have already purchased a lower powered car.

Some people might think that the P31 pack is expensive. We simply make available an option for consumers to consider, and they are welcome to puchase whatever they think is best for their own needs.

I thought North American consumers love competition

Some of the comments recently have me thinking that some boardmembers do not encourage competion or free speech.

Dark_Knight

or perhaps a tuning for p31 cars to make even more hp?

SonnyakaPig

I like the initiative!

I think this is a win-win for anyone that wants their non-P31 car to have similar performance capabilities to the P31 equipped cars.

Regarding any moral issues, most tuners take a stock tune and improve on it and then call it their tune even though the bulk of the tune was written by the car manufacturer. Some tuners take a canned tune from a supercharger manufacturer and then add some tweaks and then call it their own tune.

If and when I decide to tune my car I'm going to want to know that my tuner has studied the differences between my C63 and an E63, so that they know how to remove the "de-tuned" paramaters in my C63 and replace them with what already works in the powerful E63. I don't want the tuner that I would go with to have to re-invent the wheel.

This is a great opportunity to learn more about our C63's.

Powerchip has so much experience reading E, S, C, and even Black Series tunes. I've spoken with them and they are an experienced company with so much insight about our engines and ECU's that we can all benefit from this intended R&D.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to drive their C63 with a tune that they know was actually written by MB and enjoyed by the many E/S/CL and Black Series owners. Plus, just like Powerchip can do for the E63, they likely can find another 10-20 rwhp in the P31 tune to make it even more powerful.

I just think it would be great to have more available information about the similarities and differences between the different 63 AMG's, which would ultimately allow us owners to have another option for a tune.

SonnyakaPig

That would also be a goal. In theory at least.

blilley18

+1

Sincity

Definitely a win-win for all of us. Perhaps the tuner(s) can learn what the factory has done. However, PC should up the ante and rather than just offer a free dyno (whoopie f'ing doo), they should give a free PC tune. You know that time is money and the typical C63 driver probably earns more than the typical Civic Ricer.

GHAZAN

Free dyno is very cheap of you.

Powerchip

It is very important that we get the reading, so I will take note of the comments. The offer is now extended to a free tune and before and after dyno testing. If anyone is within driving distance that has a P31, please let us know.

We hope that the owner will post the results on the forum

c32AMG-DTM

Personally, I am greatly in favor of competition as well as free speech. Many automotive forums could use a healthy dose of both; MBW unfortunately being no exception... but it is what it is; when the membership's usage of the forum comes without expense, and sponsors foot the bill for the site, some privileges and preferential treatment toward the sponsors would be expected as natural consequence - alas nothing is "free," as they say. Sorry for the tangent.

What is confusing to me in this case, however, is that your posts are seeming to state very different objectives. Looking at AMG's C63 P31 code so that you can understand what AMG did and "speak with authority" about the differences is an endeavor that most MB/AMG tuners would (and should?) be doing or at least considering. It's the "R" in R&D. From there, I would expect a tuner would work to further refine and develop the P31 calibration (fueling, timing, et al), squeezing any incremental performance gains that may still be left "on the table" by AMG for P31 owners. Just like has already been done with the non-P31 calibration - Powerchip, along with many others, have taken the non-P31 stock calibration and optimized it to whatever they deem appropriate according to their unique tuning philosophies. That is one objective, which you seem to suggest in your latter post.

The former post (OP) seems to suggest that Powerchip's aim is to simply suck out the AMG P31 stock calibration, and then sell that stock AMG calibration as a Powerchip product. Copy & paste, essentially, with no development or value-added done by Powerchip. I see some ethical issues there, but morality is about as subjective as you can get - naturally, YMMV.

Best wishes with your future endeavors.

arctichaze

I guess the initial post could have been phrased a bit better to make it clear that *everyone* is going to gain something out of this adventure. Also, dyno time is not compensation however a free tune + cash after you determine if you can squeeze more power out of a P31 is also nice. PC stands to make a LOT of money our of this endeavor and a simple we will give you $500 in cash if you let us look into your P31 car would have gone a very long way.

Regardless of the ethical nature of a copy and paste calibration, none of us have the equipment to pull out the data and do a full analysis anyways. So what is the big deal if PC uses their years of experience and equipment so that they can resell something?

Dark_Knight

I highly doubt they would just cut and paste for a tune, OEM tunes by nature must make compromises.

rory breaker

You are exactly right. This is something many of us have questioned in the past. Many people on here love to assume what is in a tune because they have no comprehension of all the variables that go into a real "tune". So instead they just say "opens the throttle more, adds more fuel".

Kudos to you for taking the time to actually understand the specific differences between the stock setup and the p31 setup. This is what most of us want to understand when buying a tune - not just "delimiter removed, more fuel more air".

Heads up though, some are kind of testy (read: combative) on this board so be careful how you come off - all it takes is the wrong person with too much time on their hands to start picking at your comments (free speech, competition, etc) and lob a grenade in your project and the rest of the group suffers.

Sincity

Thank you for "stepping it up." Now someone please give the man what he needs.

SonnyakaPig

This!

Supremee

just wondering, whats the difference between a regular c63 and a p31?

RStevens63

P31 is a mercedes performance package that includes a hotter tune, red calipers with front compound rotors for around $6000. The LSD is still a standalone option which definitely should have been included in the P31 package. Anyway its basically a elimination of the detune of the normal C63 tune which doesn't allow the throttlebody's to open up all the way, like mercedes is trying to tap into the tuner aftermarket which makes sense since a lot of C owners get tuned.
There are questions about whether or not the P31 packge does infact include the SLS's bottom end which is supposed to be lighter by .5kg and also has revised crank rods and pistons vs a normal car. But the SLS has the same compression ratio as the regular 63s so there should be no mechanical reason the crank rods pistons would add power. It may rev a bit quicker but it's not making any more power.
Until the part numbers come out and they should have already but aren't we won't know about the crank rods pistons for sure. Everything else is fact.

GHAZAN

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...tra-money.html

Search supremee there's a half a dozen more threads like it.

rory breaker

There is no sarcasm in this statement - has MKB (or anyone) extracted every variable in the maps to compare P31 vs Stock to 100% confirm that indeed, every single piece is the same minus the TB restriction?

Powerchip

Hi rory

Thanks for "getting it"

You are 100% correct, an engineer needs to identify specifically each and every change.

We admit we presently have not read a p31. Until we do we can't speak with authority about what it does and how it does it.

Rstephens has an opinion about what is changed but has not provided a primary source to support his belief.

I can find no reference to transmission improvements for 7 speed automatic transmissions claimed anywhere MKB's website

Unless he shares with us his relationship (if any) with MKB and provides some primary sources to support his assertions I simply regard his comments as forum chatter from an MHP fan.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to express it, but i look to primary sources to confirm fact from a third party opinion.

Powerchip

Just a quick update, a board member called past our facility last week and we completed a reading of the stock P31 ECU

We will post some map images comparing the stock maps to P31 maps in the next couple of days in a new thread

ZephyrAMG

GHAZAN you should hold a seminar one day on how to use the search button. A lot of Newbies and others should go....

splinter

Link?