Just had my C63 tuned at Gintani (OE Tuning)
11-16-2010, 01:30 PM
#101
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
To clarify, ALL tuners DON'T do this.
Evosport does not do this. We have all of ONE two customers that routinely do 1/4 mile runs (JRCart and City Performance in Australia).
Different tuners DO have disproportionate amount of customers in different niches. The vast majority of our customers are road racers/trackers or high end street guys.
To say that each company has the same amount of customers in each niche is incorrect and overlooks basic market trends.
Just clarifying.
Thanks
Brad
Evosport does not do this. We have all of ONE two customers that routinely do 1/4 mile runs (JRCart and City Performance in Australia).
Different tuners DO have disproportionate amount of customers in different niches. The vast majority of our customers are road racers/trackers or high end street guys.
To say that each company has the same amount of customers in each niche is incorrect and overlooks basic market trends.
Just clarifying.
Thanks
Brad
My point was, you can't control what your customers do.... it's not MHP's fault that his customers like going to the track. They could've been your customers as well as RENNtech's or any other company. You guys (more than most) like to prove your products on the track not just on the dyno, so naturally you tend to track-prove your products - I'm not saying it is a bad thing but it does happen. Whether it is on a road course or 1/4 mile, it is still track testing/proving
Last edited by MB_Forever; 11-16-2010 at 02:18 PM.
11-16-2010, 02:24 PM
#103
You're missing my point.... whether they sell more or less than another company, it is something that affects all companies equally. It is not their fault that when a customer buys their product, they go to the track to test it out.
All tuning companies run their cars.... it would be a little unfair to say MHP has the best track presence because they tear up the track with their own cars. MKB, for example, ran their cars on a track except they used high-speed runways when they first released their products for the 63 line-up. Then they recently actually used a 1/4 mile track for their 1000 hp SL65 Black Series and announced that they will continue to do so. RENNtech also did the same thing and took their car to the local track. Evosport and Brabus do the same thing as well. It is usually a good practice to test your products on the track. MHP is no different. They have customers who go to the track and those who do not. The difference is that all of MHP customers who go to the tarck seem to generate very close and very consistent results across multiple different cars in multiple different areas while others seem to vary somewhat inconsistently. I'm not knocking any company.... but I am stating that the fact that MHP customers happen to go to the track should not be used against them. They have no control over it. And all other companies have the same chance of being picked by a customer who happen to like going to the track.
All tuning companies run their cars.... it would be a little unfair to say MHP has the best track presence because they tear up the track with their own cars. MKB, for example, ran their cars on a track except they used high-speed runways when they first released their products for the 63 line-up. Then they recently actually used a 1/4 mile track for their 1000 hp SL65 Black Series and announced that they will continue to do so. RENNtech also did the same thing and took their car to the local track. Evosport and Brabus do the same thing as well. It is usually a good practice to test your products on the track. MHP is no different. They have customers who go to the track and those who do not. The difference is that all of MHP customers who go to the tarck seem to generate very close and very consistent results across multiple different cars in multiple different areas while others seem to vary somewhat inconsistently. I'm not knocking any company.... but I am stating that the fact that MHP customers happen to go to the track should not be used against them. They have no control over it. And all other companies have the same chance of being picked by a customer who happen to like going to the track.
It doesn't matter that MHP can't control who buys their products and they can't control whether their customers go to the track.
Even though I'm sure all tuning companies test their cars at the track, MHP seemed to really put in more time at the track, even after their products were released.
It's not being prejudicial against MHP to maintain the assertion that they represent the largest track presence of tuned C63's. Am I wrong? Are their other tuning companies being represented in as large of a number as MHP? I'm asking about the known track presence (i.e., track results that are discussed online and posted on dragtimes).
Edit: To clarify, I'm talking about 1/4 track and C63's because that's what this conversation was about.
Bottom line for me, is that I'm excited to see the C63 platform being advanced and I'm appreciative of the hard work and dedication of all of those who test and push their cars.
Last edited by SonnyakaPig; 11-16-2010 at 02:31 PM.
11-16-2010, 02:30 PM
#104
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First of all, I wasn't talking about 1/4 mile tracks only. Whether it is high-speed runways, oval tracks, or 1/4 mile tracks.... they are all tracks which customers go to. However, I do know many of your E55 customers who go to the 1/4 mile track regularly. To be precise, there are at least 3 E55 evosport customers who have come to every single event I organized in the past 3 years + a couple of open events at Fontana. Evosport probably has more customers going to the 1/4 mile track than MHP. Mostly, they are 55 and 65 customers but there were also a couple of 63 customers: C63 guy, Phil, etc...
My point was, you can't control what your customers do.... it's not MHP's fault that his customers like going to the track. They could've been your customers as well as RENNtech's or any other company. You guys (more than most) like to prove your products on the track not just on the dyno, so naturally you tend to track-prove your products - I'm not saying it is a bad thing but it does happen. Whether it is on a road course or 1/4 mile, it is still track testing/proving
My point was, you can't control what your customers do.... it's not MHP's fault that his customers like going to the track. They could've been your customers as well as RENNtech's or any other company. You guys (more than most) like to prove your products on the track not just on the dyno, so naturally you tend to track-prove your products - I'm not saying it is a bad thing but it does happen. Whether it is on a road course or 1/4 mile, it is still track testing/proving
I bet somewhere in the world there is a C63 in the 9's right now clueless to the fact that people on this forum are setting "Records" Maybe that person has an OE tune... Maybe MHP...
Never know....A friend of mine has a 1200HP Supra. Never been to the track in his life. Couldn't care less about racing against time. All he knows is that he will destroy anything on the road. Good enough for him...
11-16-2010, 02:34 PM
#105
You are also not considering there is a whole other world out there that DOESNT spend its day on the internet and never posts time or puts up youtube videos. They do it for them and no one else.
I bet somewhere in the world there is a C63 in the 9's right now clueless to the fact that people on this forum are setting "Records" Maybe that person has an OE tune... Maybe MHP...
Never know....
A friend of mine has a 1200HP Supra. Never been to the track in his life. Couldn't care less about racing against time. All he knows is that he will destroy anything on the road. Good enough for him...
I bet somewhere in the world there is a C63 in the 9's right now clueless to the fact that people on this forum are setting "Records" Maybe that person has an OE tune... Maybe MHP...
Never know....A friend of mine has a 1200HP Supra. Never been to the track in his life. Couldn't care less about racing against time. All he knows is that he will destroy anything on the road. Good enough for him...
Anyway, your point is reasonable. There's always someone out there doing it big and they don't always report their results.
But, to be fair, we are talking about known track presence.
11-16-2010, 02:35 PM
#106
11-16-2010, 02:44 PM
#107
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This is getting way off topic!! Can't we all just have fun out there what does Mhp have 4-5 cars that go to the 1/4 mile track? If these other tunes and products work as well as the (Mhp tune) we should see some good results in the next week
11-16-2010, 03:08 PM
#109
MBWorld Fanatic!
The fact of the matter is; as of no there is no doubt that the (Mhp) cars are on top... The people on these forums want to say.. Well my dyno says this so obviously I can do this at the track... The only way u can take Mhp off the top is to beat them. I am not saying someone is better then the other.. I no what I have and I no exactly what I do at the track so all I can say is put out or shut up... And I mean that with all do respect to everyone involved.. Let's all that want to talk and back up there cars meet at the tea k and put it to bed.... All this talk seems almost stupid...
11-16-2010, 03:17 PM
#110
The fact of the matter is; as of no there is no doubt that the (Mhp) cars are on top... The people on these forums want to say.. Well my dyno says this so obviously I can do this at the track... The only way u can take Mhp off the top is to beat them. I am not saying someone is better then the other.. I no what I have and I no exactly what I do at the track so all I can say is put out or shut up... And I mean that with all do respect to everyone involved.. Let's all that want to talk and back up there cars meet at the tea k and put it to bed.... All this talk seems almost stupid...
So, to some who don't already hold records and have as much experience as drivers like yourself, we debate, speculate, have our predictions confirmed or denied. It's part of the online forum experience.
Is it really that unreasonable to speculate that an OE-tuned car will perform well (11's) at the track given good weather conditions and traction? These cars were engineered by AMG and MB and then part of the enormous ECU files were tuned aftermarket. So, there won't be that much variation among various tunes in terms of 1/4 track results when more people get to the track. (*Edit: I concede that my previous sentence is a bit too liberal of an opinion... : ) )
Above is further speculation on my part that is interesting to some and boring to others.
Last edited by SonnyakaPig; 11-16-2010 at 03:41 PM.
11-16-2010, 03:29 PM
#111
MBWorld Fanatic!
The fact of the matter is; as of no there is no doubt that the (Mhp) cars are on top... The people on these forums want to say.. Well my dyno says this so obviously I can do this at the track... The only way u can take Mhp off the top is to beat them. I am not saying someone is better then the other.. I no what I have and I no exactly what I do at the track so all I can say is put out or shut up... And I mean that with all do respect to everyone involved.. Let's all that want to talk and back up there cars meet at the tea k and put it to bed.... All this talk seems almost stupid...
Its all in fun for me. Lets not lose focus on that.
No one is saying "Because my dyno says this I will do this on the track" What is being said however is "My dyno is better than your dyno, so I think ill do as good if not better tune for tune on the track"
Talk is talk.. that's what forums are for. There is nothing wrong with some good conversation and competitive poop slinging as long as people don't take it personal.
Honestly from what ive see on this board however, MHP folks get ravenous if you say anything but nice things about the product. The only people who should get mad about that is MHP, otherwise, as you stated, the numbers don't lie. Track results put MHP on top and they will stay there until someone else knocks them down.
Damn it now I really wanna go!!! Jon you little bastage!! Dont come home if your in the 12's!! lol Jon ran 12.5 stock on street tires. He will for sure be in the 11's on DR's. If he cant get it done, Dodger, please take his keys and show us some real numbers!
11-16-2010, 03:34 PM
#112
Its all in fun for me. Lets not lose focus on that.
No one is saying "Because my dyno says this I will do this on the track" What is being said however is "My dyno is better than your dyno, so I think ill do as good if not better tune for tune on the track"
Talk is talk.. that's what forums are for. There is nothing wrong with some good conversation and competitive poop slinging as long as people don't take it personal.
Honestly from what ive see on this board however, MHP folks get ravenous if you say anything but nice things about the product. The only people who should get mad about that is MHP, otherwise, as you stated, the numbers don't lie. Track results put MHP on top and they will stay there until someone else knocks them down.
Damn it now I really wanna go!!! Jon you little bastage!! Dont come home if your in the 12's!! lol Jon ran 12.5 stock on street tires. He will for sure be in the 11's on DR's. If he cant get it done, Dodger, please take his keys and show us some real numbers!
No one is saying "Because my dyno says this I will do this on the track" What is being said however is "My dyno is better than your dyno, so I think ill do as good if not better tune for tune on the track"
Talk is talk.. that's what forums are for. There is nothing wrong with some good conversation and competitive poop slinging as long as people don't take it personal.
Honestly from what ive see on this board however, MHP folks get ravenous if you say anything but nice things about the product. The only people who should get mad about that is MHP, otherwise, as you stated, the numbers don't lie. Track results put MHP on top and they will stay there until someone else knocks them down.
Damn it now I really wanna go!!! Jon you little bastage!! Dont come home if your in the 12's!! lol Jon ran 12.5 stock on street tires. He will for sure be in the 11's on DR's. If he cant get it done, Dodger, please take his keys and show us some real numbers!
11-16-2010, 03:53 PM
#113
MBWorld Fanatic!
No offense, but it's often the same line from some of the MHP guys: talk is cheap, come to the track. Not everyone lives near good tracks and not everyone has owned C63's and had them tuned for as long as some of the MHP guys.
So, to some who don't already hold records and have as much experience as drivers like yourself, we debate, speculate, have our predictions confirmed or denied. It's part of the online forum experience.
Is it really that unreasonable to speculate that an OE-tuned car will perform well (11's) at the track given good weather conditions and traction? These cars were engineered by AMG and MB and then part of the enormous ECU files were tuned aftermarket. So, there won't be that much variation among various tunes in terms of 1/4 track results when more people get to the track. (*Edit: I concede that my previous sentence is a bit too liberal of an opinion... : ) )
Above is further speculation on my part that is interesting to some and boring to others.
So, to some who don't already hold records and have as much experience as drivers like yourself, we debate, speculate, have our predictions confirmed or denied. It's part of the online forum experience.
Is it really that unreasonable to speculate that an OE-tuned car will perform well (11's) at the track given good weather conditions and traction? These cars were engineered by AMG and MB and then part of the enormous ECU files were tuned aftermarket. So, there won't be that much variation among various tunes in terms of 1/4 track results when more people get to the track. (*Edit: I concede that my previous sentence is a bit too liberal of an opinion... : ) )
Above is further speculation on my part that is interesting to some and boring to others.
11-16-2010, 03:56 PM
#114
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
I read your points loud and clear. But, respectfully, I think you're missing my points.
It doesn't matter that MHP can't control who buys their products and they can't control whether their customers go to the track.
Even though I'm sure all tuning companies test their cars at the track, MHP seemed to really put in more time at the track, even after their products were released.
It doesn't matter that MHP can't control who buys their products and they can't control whether their customers go to the track.
Even though I'm sure all tuning companies test their cars at the track, MHP seemed to really put in more time at the track, even after their products were released.
It's not being prejudicial against MHP to maintain the assertion that they represent the largest track presence of tuned C63's. Am I wrong? Are their other tuning companies being represented in as large of a number as MHP? I'm asking about the known track presence (i.e., track results that are discussed online and posted on dragtimes).
so no you are not wrong. I was arguing that the fact that not too many C63 owners take their cars to the track is something that all tuners deal with - it is something that affects them equally and should not be held against MHP. It would be incorrect to say that other tuners don't have good track numbers because not too many C63 owners take their cars to the track. It is a random fact which happens to exist and affect all tuners.
Last edited by MB_Forever; 11-16-2010 at 04:06 PM.
11-16-2010, 03:59 PM
#115
Actually, that statement is slightly incorrect. MHP had their C63 for a little over a year (as far as I know). I agree they took their car to the track a couple of times for R&D when they first got it, but after they sold it, they themselves have NOT taken their own C63 to the track. Their customers did but not them as their car was already gone. So to say that they seem to "really put in more time at the track" may not be too accurate and I will respectfully disagree with you on it. Their customers maybe do but not MHP. Fortunately for all of us, even after MHP's car was gone, they continued to develop more and more products for the C63 platform.
First, I wouldn't say their track presence is large. It is larger than other companies but certainly not large or huge. They have maybe 5 or 6 cars who go regularly to the track. The others have gone maybe once or twice.
Second, I have never argued that they have a larger track presence so no you are not wrong. I was arguing that the fact that not too many C63 owners take their cars to the track is something that all tuners deal with - it is something that affects them equally and should not be held against MHP. It would be incorrect to say that other tuners don't have good track numbers because not too many C63 owners take their cars to the track. It is a random fact which happens to exist and affect all tuners.
+1.... I like the fact that some companies are aggressively advancing the 63 platform and would like to see more of it
First, I wouldn't say their track presence is large. It is larger than other companies but certainly not large or huge. They have maybe 5 or 6 cars who go regularly to the track. The others have gone maybe once or twice.
Second, I have never argued that they have a larger track presence
so no you are not wrong. I was arguing that the fact that not too many C63 owners take their cars to the track is something that all tuners deal with - it is something that affects them equally and should not be held against MHP. It would be incorrect to say that other tuners don't have good track numbers because not too many C63 owners take their cars to the track. It is a random fact which happens to exist and affect all tuners. +1.... I like the fact that some companies are aggressively advancing the 63 platform and would like to see more of it
11-16-2010, 04:05 PM
#116
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Last edited by MB_Forever; 11-16-2010 at 04:11 PM.
11-16-2010, 04:11 PM
#117
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E63
FYI, gentlemen - Jeremy's OE tune is not the same nor a derivative of the Powerchip tune; the kind of power the OE Tuning ecu flash is making is more than many other tunes as he is able to lean out the AFR if running too rich and do a few other things that some of the others do not.
11-16-2010, 04:15 PM
#119
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2014 Audi RS7
Guys,
These cars are a BLAST and it really doesn't matter if you run 11.2 or 11.8, its still blazing fast in a four door sedan. Enjoy your cars and enjoy racing together. I will be glad to help anyone race that wants help. The "63" platform is incredibly strong and fast and I would predict that with some more modifications they will be the fastest MB platform out there and thats saying alot being a four door sedan.
Keep racing and most of all enjoy whatever tune and modifications you have. I will warn you though, taking it to the track can be very addicting!! LOL
These cars are a BLAST and it really doesn't matter if you run 11.2 or 11.8, its still blazing fast in a four door sedan. Enjoy your cars and enjoy racing together. I will be glad to help anyone race that wants help. The "63" platform is incredibly strong and fast and I would predict that with some more modifications they will be the fastest MB platform out there and thats saying alot being a four door sedan.
Keep racing and most of all enjoy whatever tune and modifications you have. I will warn you though, taking it to the track can be very addicting!! LOL
11-16-2010, 04:39 PM
#120
MBWorld Fanatic!
Guys,
These cars are a BLAST and it really doesn't matter if you run 11.2 or 11.8, its still blazing fast in a four door sedan. Enjoy your cars and enjoy racing together. I will be glad to help anyone race that wants help. The "63" platform is incredibly strong and fast and I would predict that with some more modifications they will be the fastest MB platform out there and thats saying alot being a four door sedan.
Keep racing and most of all enjoy whatever tune and modifications you have. I will warn you though, taking it to the track can be very addicting!! LOL
These cars are a BLAST and it really doesn't matter if you run 11.2 or 11.8, its still blazing fast in a four door sedan. Enjoy your cars and enjoy racing together. I will be glad to help anyone race that wants help. The "63" platform is incredibly strong and fast and I would predict that with some more modifications they will be the fastest MB platform out there and thats saying alot being a four door sedan.
Keep racing and most of all enjoy whatever tune and modifications you have. I will warn you though, taking it to the track can be very addicting!! LOL
Nice post.
11-16-2010, 04:49 PM
#121
MBWorld Fanatic!
Remember.... having a higher hp car does not necessarily mean that they will beat a lower hp car even on the freeway. He could still lose traction, go sideways, the car could become unstable at high speeds, etc... The engineers of Bugatti went to great length to create down force and ensure the car would stay on the ground at 260 mph
Have you ever seen a Supra in action?? They are jaw dropping..
http://www.need4speed.ws/video-361.html
11-16-2010, 04:59 PM
#122
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
11-16-2010, 05:11 PM
#123
Speedriven also offers this.
Personally, I couldn't deal with having to send my ECU out for re-tunes and the programmer is a much more cost effective option that purchasing a second ECU for like $1,200.
The programmer is about $500.00, I believe. It data logs and can store two tunes. Plus you can store other tunes on your personal PC and then download them onto your programmer when you want.
Last edited by SonnyakaPig; 11-16-2010 at 05:43 PM. Reason: spelling
11-16-2010, 05:13 PM
#124
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'09 C63 AMG
It's not that they can't do it; it's that some just don't do it.
11-16-2010, 05:15 PM
#125
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Thread Starter
Are you planning on getting or maybe you already purchased the programmer/data logger? That's one big feature about OE tunes that especially interests me.
Speeddriven also offers this.
Personally, I couldn't deal with having to send my ECU out for re-tunes and the programmer is a much more cost effective option that purchasing a second ECU for like $1,200.
The programmer is about $500.00, I believe. It data logs and can store two tunes. Plus you can store other tunes on your personal PC and then download them onto your programmer when you want.
Speeddriven also offers this.
Personally, I couldn't deal with having to send my ECU out for re-tunes and the programmer is a much more cost effective option that purchasing a second ECU for like $1,200.
The programmer is about $500.00, I believe. It data logs and can store two tunes. Plus you can store other tunes on your personal PC and then download them onto your programmer when you want.
