Stock air boxes for 63
Stock air boxes for 63
11-29-2010, 03:13 PM
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
11-29-2010, 03:53 PM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG 2010, Black, Pano, P2
Basically I am back tracing my mods to find out what is causing the power loss. My first dyno will be with Kleeman ECU, Kleeman headers, airbox mod, K&N. The only difference here will be the tune (OEtuning swaped for K2 tune). That will establish if the power loss was ECU tuning related.
If the test fails (meaning still power loss) -- then proceed with airbox rollback (stock airboxes back) and retry. If still power loss -- then I am screwed -- nowhere else to go other than going back to stock headers and cats.
Hopefully this should yield some results.
If the test fails (meaning still power loss) -- then proceed with airbox rollback (stock airboxes back) and retry. If still power loss -- then I am screwed -- nowhere else to go other than going back to stock headers and cats.
Hopefully this should yield some results.
11-29-2010, 03:53 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG 2010, Black, Pano, P2
Trending Topics
11-29-2010, 05:09 PM
#8
Basically I am back tracing my mods to find out what is causing the power loss. My first dyno will be with Kleeman ECU, Kleeman headers, airbox mod, K&N. The only difference here will be the tune (OEtuning swaped for K2 tune). That will establish if the power loss was ECU tuning related.
If the test fails (meaning still power loss) -- then proceed with airbox rollback (stock airboxes back) and retry. If still power loss -- then I am screwed -- nowhere else to go other than going back to stock headers and cats.
Hopefully this should yield some results.
If the test fails (meaning still power loss) -- then proceed with airbox rollback (stock airboxes back) and retry. If still power loss -- then I am screwed -- nowhere else to go other than going back to stock headers and cats.
Hopefully this should yield some results.
I wish you the best of luck, though.
But, I do believe, the torque curve will benefit from some further investigation.
ROW airboxes are "rest of the world from North America" air boxes. ROW's are the air boxes that come in 63's from Europe for example. They do not come with a trelace (spelling?) for charcoal filters and the air opening for the MAF is larger than North American airboxes.
11-29-2010, 05:13 PM
#9
Basically I am back tracing my mods to find out what is causing the power loss. My first dyno will be with Kleeman ECU, Kleeman headers, airbox mod, K&N. The only difference here will be the tune (OEtuning swaped for K2 tune). That will establish if the power loss was ECU tuning related.
If the test fails (meaning still power loss) -- then proceed with airbox rollback (stock airboxes back) and retry. If still power loss -- then I am screwed -- nowhere else to go other than going back to stock headers and cats.
Hopefully this should yield some results.
If the test fails (meaning still power loss) -- then proceed with airbox rollback (stock airboxes back) and retry. If still power loss -- then I am screwed -- nowhere else to go other than going back to stock headers and cats.
Hopefully this should yield some results.
The K2 tune is already programmed for their headers.
So, it's not really a comparable test.
Edit 2: Albert, you mention feeling like there is no where to go if these tests come up short. But you can purchase a data logger for your car (not much more money than an extra set of OEM airbox tops). You can have your car dyno/road/or track tuned. I don't know how well the Kleeman manifolds work, but I'm confident you can maximize your cars' bolt-on performance parts with a custom tune. And that should be no more than 1-3 hours of tuning, so again, not the biggest cost.
Last edited by SonnyakaPig; 11-29-2010 at 05:33 PM.
11-29-2010, 07:46 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG 2010, Black, Pano, P2
Albert, you're going to a lot of trouble to find 10 rwhp. IMO, you cannot find that power loss on a dyno. Dyno's are not accurate enough to tell you if a car is +/- 10 rwhp.
I wish you the best of luck, though.
But, I do believe, the torque curve will benefit from some further investigation.
ROW airboxes are "rest of the world from North America" air boxes. ROW's are the air boxes that come in 63's from Europe for example. They do not come with a trelace (spelling?) for charcoal filters and the air opening for the MAF is larger than North American airboxes.
I wish you the best of luck, though.
But, I do believe, the torque curve will benefit from some further investigation.
ROW airboxes are "rest of the world from North America" air boxes. ROW's are the air boxes that come in 63's from Europe for example. They do not come with a trelace (spelling?) for charcoal filters and the air opening for the MAF is larger than North American airboxes.
Unless my assumption is wrong -- meaning if Kleeman headers make no power than I guess you would be right +-10hp would be ok.
All the info I get from multiple sources (including Kleemann) claim that I should be anywhere from 440-450RWHP with the headers and tune, but my car is only putting down 409. That is at least 30 hp difference.
11-29-2010, 07:51 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: California, USA
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Actually I am looking for 30-35hp in this case. The range is -10 to +20-25 from the base which is 424. My understanding is that Kleeman headers are supposed to add another 20-25hp. But in my case I lost 10hp, so all in all that is a 35hp swing. If it were just 10hp I would not go through the trouble.
Unless my assumption is wrong -- meaning if Kleeman headers make no power than I guess you would be right +-10hp would be ok.
All the info I get from multiple sources (including Kleemann) claim that I should be anywhere from 440-450RWHP with the headers and tune, but my car is only putting down 409. That is at least 30 hp difference.
Unless my assumption is wrong -- meaning if Kleeman headers make no power than I guess you would be right +-10hp would be ok.
All the info I get from multiple sources (including Kleemann) claim that I should be anywhere from 440-450RWHP with the headers and tune, but my car is only putting down 409. That is at least 30 hp difference.
11-29-2010, 08:27 PM
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
The Kleemann headers should definitely make power. I believe malaksync had documented +27 whp gains with the Kleemann headers although his car is a W211 E63. Do you think whatever adjustment you had to make to the headers to make them fit on the W212 maybe causing this?
11-29-2010, 08:31 PM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG 2010, Black, Pano, P2
The Kleemann headers should definitely make power. I believe malaksync had documented +27 whp gains with the Kleemann headers although his car is a W211 E63. Do you think whatever adjustment you had to make to the headers to make them fit on the W212 maybe causing this?
11-29-2010, 08:31 PM
#16
Actually I am looking for 30-35hp in this case. The range is -10 to +20-25 from the base which is 424. My understanding is that Kleeman headers are supposed to add another 20-25hp. But in my case I lost 10hp, so all in all that is a 35hp swing. If it were just 10hp I would not go through the trouble.
Unless my assumption is wrong -- meaning if Kleeman headers make no power than I guess you would be right +-10hp would be ok.
All the info I get from multiple sources (including Kleemann) claim that I should be anywhere from 440-450RWHP with the headers and tune, but my car is only putting down 409. That is at least 30 hp difference.
Unless my assumption is wrong -- meaning if Kleeman headers make no power than I guess you would be right +-10hp would be ok.
All the info I get from multiple sources (including Kleemann) claim that I should be anywhere from 440-450RWHP with the headers and tune, but my car is only putting down 409. That is at least 30 hp difference.
I see exactly what you're saying. But I still think you would benefit from one of the tuning methods I mentioned above. It could help tie everything together for maximum power.
Last edited by SonnyakaPig; 11-29-2010 at 08:35 PM.
11-29-2010, 08:33 PM
#17
11-29-2010, 09:15 PM
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG 2010, Black, Pano, P2
No, so that could be the reason. Now i have Kleeman tune for the headers. Basically I had oetune for the stock car, then I installed Kleeman headers and lost power. I talked to Craig @ rpm, Jeremy @ oetuning, Bruce @ ttm, Cory @ Kleemann and everyone was surprised by the result. One recommendation was to update the ecu for the headers. I decided to go with Kleemann k2 ecu tune to eliminate finger pointing between oetuning and Kleemann.
Basically I want to avoid finger pointing as well as reduce the number of variables. Overall my car with k2, headers and k&n filters should make around 440rwhp sae. Today, thanks to dodger63, I am at that point and ready for a dyno tommrow.
So tomorrow will be the test.
Regarding Kleemann header install on w212, craig told me they made some adjustments to eliminate header rubbing on the steering. When headers were first installed there was significant shaking in the steering when engine was under load or during turns. So they must have done something to eliminate that, I thipought that they had to dent the header pipe a little to give it more clearance, but I might be wrong.
Basically I want to avoid finger pointing as well as reduce the number of variables. Overall my car with k2, headers and k&n filters should make around 440rwhp sae. Today, thanks to dodger63, I am at that point and ready for a dyno tommrow.
So tomorrow will be the test.
Regarding Kleemann header install on w212, craig told me they made some adjustments to eliminate header rubbing on the steering. When headers were first installed there was significant shaking in the steering when engine was under load or during turns. So they must have done something to eliminate that, I thipought that they had to dent the header pipe a little to give it more clearance, but I might be wrong.
Last edited by AlbertM; 11-29-2010 at 09:18 PM.
11-29-2010, 09:20 PM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
11-29-2010, 09:24 PM
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
11-29-2010, 09:29 PM
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 AMG 2010, Black, Pano, P2
Actually, I don't know exactly what was done to eliminate the shaking or rubbing. I assume it was denting the header, but I might be wrong. It would be interesting to find out.
11-29-2010, 09:35 PM
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
The bolt holes were widened and the header was massaged not dented near the steering column.. I would bet that with the header tune from kleemen that the results tomorrow will be better! Let's all just see..
