Again: HOW does a tool that cannot read out a file make file sharing easier? Maybe I'm just super-dense (believe me: that's possible!) but if a given tuner doesn't want to email a given client a tune file, then that's between that tuner and their customer, no?

I don't see a problem emailing a tune file and allowing a client to see what's in there, if they have the tools and the drive. As for other tuners, the only value our file would be to them would be academic, since what you can really do on a factory car is pretty limited and we run very conservative files (to keep the cars healthy, happy, and together) and what we do to tune for our hardware (intercoolers, intakes, turbos, injectors, etc.) is really only beneficial if the customer has our exact hardware package ... and (unlike the software issue) that *IS* an instance where the IP is enforcible, so there's no threat there, you know?

 

With all these "ask RT" replies.. I think people don't really know who Jo is? First off Jo is a great guy (don't think anyone is questioning that). Jo worked for RT. So why can't we just asks Jo? The guy knows what he's talking about.

Generally speaking. This industry is crazy cut throat. If one company gets a vendors licence yanked. They are quick to make claims as to why "They" stopped carrying the product. Its this industries telegraphed left hook. The only problem is they've just been punched in the face. So, their Left counter is so telegraphed.. everyone seen it coming.

You never hear a company that is no longer allowed to sell a product. Make the claim "It's such a good product, I wish we could still sell it."

In any event. The folk on this forum that are looking for a nice exhaust system and a quality human being to deal with. Jo is your guy.

 

Thanks for the forum love, buddy. Also, that is SO true! LOL!!

 

It's the emailing of the file from tuner to customer that's the problem, the file is out of the ECU and can be emailed anywhere for anyone to hack.

Enforcing IP for both software and hardware is like trying to skate uphill. I'm sure you know this having worked in the business as long as you have. No need to publicly post anything more about this.

This tool essentially devalues software which brings us to the situation I posted about before about those who create not making their $ back, and those who copy not being able to create.

I may be wrong because I haven't called to ask directly but I don't believe renntech is sad they are no longer using the tool, I highly highly doubt it.

 

9 out of 10 times we can get the tune working in the ecu without it being shipped back.

 

I can see and respect what you are saying. From my knowledge of the 63 ECU, You can have all the emailed files you want. Even hacking them to work on other car. The problem is, if its a first time flash for the car or from a new tuner. You need a BDM tool to upload the file to the ECU. Without that tool, passing around a 63 file isn't any good. Thats why First time flashes of an ECU have to have the ECU sent in to be flashed. After that then Files can be emailed.

So lets say some one sends in there ECU to be flashed. They get it flashed and also receive a remote tuner married to that cars ECU. Now a new file comes along via email. This shady person emails it off to a buddy to crack it open. The files does get cracked. So what happens now? The person who cracked it maybe in possession of a file that can work on any 63. However they can't do anything with it. Unless they have a BDM tool.

So the person scores a BDM tool. Now you need know what software you are going to need to communicate with the BDM tool. If you get that far, you need to know how to use the BDM tool. where do you place the pins on the board. those sort of things.

From my knowledge the said company only had exclusive rights to the 63 remote flash device. I got that info from the mfg of the remote flashers. Sure they sold 55 flash devices for the 55s. I can totally see how that could present issues because you can flash via OBDII on some of those.

What people don't know out these Remote tuners is... If you take your remote flash device and stick it in some one else car. It will lock you out. In turn rendering the device useless until it is unlocked by the mfg.

I totally respect where you're coming from. Know this though, If you know what you are doing and have the right tools.. You can rip anyones tune from the ECU.

I personaly think this device is great. Being able to switch from a pump gas map to a 100 octane map without visiting the shop is very cool and convenient. I think this is a nice start to making tuning more accessible for the folk who live far from their tuning shop. Who know maybe one day this will lead to having a device as nice as a COBB access port.

 

In regards to the me9.7 ecu files getting emailed and stolen. Its a little harder that it sounds. An eprom file on a 63 ecu is 2000kb (2mb). The file that gets emailed is only 248kb. No, its not zipped or compressed or anything like that. It is encrypted and only a small section of the file on the ecu gets overwritten. So its not like the end user gets a complete file emailed. So there would be quite a bit of digging to try and hack the emailed file.
1. you would have to crack the encryption.
2. figure out what firmware version is on the ecu currently as the encrypted file only corresponds to that fw version. (MB likes to have 20+ versions of any particular file, what that means they randomly relocate map locations within the file). And with over 9700 maps in the me9.7 that a lot of searching and comparing.

Or what can happen you send an ecu to any tuner that you want to steal a file from. Pay to 1 tune and pull the file right of the eprom when it gets mailed back.

What is easier and what do you think happens more often?

 

Good points hooley. That reminds me of one more point. The ecu has to initially be enabled to accept obdii flashing by altering the factory encryption. Otherwise bdm is the only way to access file. Majority of MB ecus do not support obdii file extraction, only uploads.

 

To minimize dealer flashing ECUs and sending off to tuner to reflash, I only see two options:

1) Buy another ECU.

or

2) Buy the BDM programmer with the appropriate pad (I do not know the techincal term), and the holder. Software? You can buy a BDM programmer for cheap on eBay but the ones I have seen, do not have a ME97 "pad."

What is cheaper? Which software to use to extract the tuned file and reflash the same ECU? I'm not sure if I am asking the correct questions, I just want a means to being able to reflash MY OWN ECU and MY OWN tune if the dealer happens to flash over and to minimize my down time.

Seems like we are going off tangent here and need a new thread.

 

Honestly I think option 1 is the cheaper and safer way. I have seen ecus get fried by bdm tools. By the time you buy a bdm from a reputable source, get the fixtures, software etc. it will cost more than a second ecu.

Only time dealers flash cars is if there is a campaign, recall out or you drop the car of with warning lights or drivability issues. Otherwise there is no reason for them to flash. Remember techs are paid by the work they do not hourly. So if there is no reason for them to stand by a computer and flash the ecu they won't. They don't get paid if they do random things at will.

 

There are dealers that are instructed to check and flash the latest version of software upon diagnostics. My local dealer is one of them. I know of two others around me that do as well.

The problem with buying a second stock ECU so that you can swap it into the car before going to the dealer is that you may get a check engine light depending on your mods. For example, if you have eliminated the primary or secondary cats and have turned off the O2 sensors via software on your tuned ECU, then as soon as you plug back the stock ECU, you should get a CEL, which may then throw the dealer off as well.

I wish someone would figure out a way to allow the 63 ECUs to be flashed without having to send the ECU to the tuner just like the case with the 55k. I realize the encryption is the hurdle at the moment, but I still have hope that (in time) we will figure it out.

 

^^ Good point about the exhaust/header mods throwing a CEL on the second ECU. I forgot about that since I am still tune only.

 

Unless MBUSA released someting within the last year thats not the case. I have worked at a dealer for over 9 1/2 years and never heard of such a thing. Btw. dealer can NOT scan a car and tell if its been flashed.

 

Yes Jo, when my throttle body went MB of HE reflashed over my EC Tune??

 

Really? A MB dealer cannot diagnose if a Mercedes in their shop is running factory or aftermarket ECU programing? I'm not questioning you... but I find that surprising.

 

Pretty much goes in line with what I stated earlier. They may flash your ecu if you go in with a check engine light or drivability issue. I'm certain that you had one of the above when you took the car in. Hows the ML doing?

 

2 ways a dealer can currently tell if an ecu is modified.
1. Visual evidence that the ecu has been tampered with.
2. The car is undeniably faster than the one next to it in the shop.

With the second one though I would be in the service managers office questioning why they are lining up my car with others

 

I never said this was an MBUSA policy.... some dealers make it a habbit to check if there is new software available upon diagnostics, and if there is, they automatically flash it. This is usually a dealer policy. Not all dealers do this, but many of them (at least here in California) do. This is not only related to ECU software, but TCU, and instrument cluster, etc...

 

The ability to switch from a 100 octane race tune and a 91 octane street tune on the same ECU would be a huge benefit. Whether the drag strip or a road course I would love to be able to switch to a race tune. These relatively new versions of 100+ octane tunes are a big part of the hyper improvements in ET's and traps that we are seeing lately.