P31 vs Regular C63 Comparison
03-02-2011, 09:19 PM
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'11 C63 w/ P31
Hard to say its a consistent pull but the longer we ran the more I gained, I mean you can see the vids. We started around 30-40mph and ran to about 135-145
03-02-2011, 09:59 PM
#27
My question is this: If the P31 can be tuned for 91 octane and make more power than a stock P31 then can regular C63's get tuned to a P31 level, and then tuned once more to get to the tuned P31 level.
Obviously, I added an extra step but I was just trying to be as clear as possible.
In the past it was told to me that the E63, for example, can be tuned to make more power than the C63 because the E63 has larger diameter catback exhaust (2 3/4" vs 2 1/2"). But, if the P31 is making roughly the same power as the E63, then the exhaust diameter is not the sole explanation.
Ruling out -- prematurely on my part, I might add -- the power making capabilities of forged internals vs non-forged internals, what gives?
Bottom line, can a non-P31 C63 get the same tune as a P31 that gets tuned?
Obviously, I added an extra step but I was just trying to be as clear as possible.
In the past it was told to me that the E63, for example, can be tuned to make more power than the C63 because the E63 has larger diameter catback exhaust (2 3/4" vs 2 1/2"). But, if the P31 is making roughly the same power as the E63, then the exhaust diameter is not the sole explanation.
Ruling out -- prematurely on my part, I might add -- the power making capabilities of forged internals vs non-forged internals, what gives?
Bottom line, can a non-P31 C63 get the same tune as a P31 that gets tuned?
03-02-2011, 10:10 PM
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'11 C63 w/ P31
My question is this: If the P31 can be tuned for 91 octane and make more power than a stock P31 then can regular C63's get tuned to a P31 level, and then tuned once more to get to the tuned P31 level.
Obviously, I added an extra step but I was just trying to be as clear as possible.
In the past it was told to me that the E63, for example, can be tuned to make more power than the C63 because the E63 has larger diameter catback exhaust (2 3/4" vs 2 1/2"). But, if the P31 is making roughly the same power as the E63, then the exhaust diameter is not the sole explanation.
Ruling out -- prematurely on my part, I might add -- the power making capabilities of forged internals vs non-forged internals, what gives?
Bottom line, can a non-P31 C63 get the same tune as a P31 that gets tuned?
Obviously, I added an extra step but I was just trying to be as clear as possible.
In the past it was told to me that the E63, for example, can be tuned to make more power than the C63 because the E63 has larger diameter catback exhaust (2 3/4" vs 2 1/2"). But, if the P31 is making roughly the same power as the E63, then the exhaust diameter is not the sole explanation.
Ruling out -- prematurely on my part, I might add -- the power making capabilities of forged internals vs non-forged internals, what gives?
Bottom line, can a non-P31 C63 get the same tune as a P31 that gets tuned?
jesus! lol
So far there have been no tuned p31 cars really, just a brabus that gained 4hp. So your above question doesnt really apply.
Now I think if you were talking about using 93 octane or higher then you could definitely get some gains on the p31.
and so far nobody really know if the forged internals make more power or if its just the tune on the p31. But could prob handle more boost!
03-02-2011, 10:21 PM
#30
jesus! lol
So far there have been no tuned p31 cars really, just a brabus that gained 4hp. So your above question doesnt really apply.
Now I think if you were talking about using 93 octane or higher then you could definitely get some gains on the p31.
and so far nobody really know if the forged internals make more power or if its just the tune on the p31. But could prob handle more boost!
So far there have been no tuned p31 cars really, just a brabus that gained 4hp. So your above question doesnt really apply.
Now I think if you were talking about using 93 octane or higher then you could definitely get some gains on the p31.
and so far nobody really know if the forged internals make more power or if its just the tune on the p31. But could prob handle more boost!
You're right in that my question is not yet ripe, considering, like you said, P31's haven't been tuned. But, I thought OE was working on a tune, maybe.
But, even still, when you say maybe with 93 octane you could get some gains on the P31, all I'm asking (and I admit it's not an original question) is whether those gains would surpass the power of an OE, MHP, Kleeman, 93 octane tune, and if so, could those other 93 octane tunes be made more powerful?
I've always wondered whether a 93 octane E63 tune (or the aggressiveness of the timing in that tune, rather) could be used in a C63 running 93 octane?
Perhaps these are the race files. I don't know.
03-02-2011, 10:56 PM
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03-03-2011, 03:48 AM
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'11 C63 w/ P31
03-03-2011, 04:48 AM
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Great comparison, thanks. Still a bit torn between getting the P31 (for $20k....) or just get a 1000 dollar tune but void the warranty which in the long run can cost more than 20k if i'm unlucky, especially with the risks of bugs with the new gear box.
03-03-2011, 06:06 AM
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'15 E63S wagon
The P31 delivers much more than just "a tune and no warranty troubles," which by itself shouldn't be minimized (that's a huge relief for anyone that doesn't want to risk gigantic warranty repairs if they pop an engine). You have looked up the P31's option list, yes? You're getting much more for your $$$ than just a tune with the P31 option package. For many people, P31 makes the C63 an ideal car w/out having to void the warranty or install a Quaife, etc. IMO it's well worth the cost.
03-03-2011, 08:48 AM
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'14 911S (garage queen) '13 X3 (family hauler)
I've said it on here before--I spent the extra $6000 (plus the $2000 for the LSD) because I wanted the most power and grip available with factory warranty and i was already in the mid $70s for the car and didn't want to look back and say to myself "shoulda, woulda, coulda"
So it cost me roughly $8000 to get the p31 and LSD.
Tune and aftermarket LSD combined is around $2500-3000 depending on the details.
Now I always liked the red calipers, I know some don't and the cf trunk spoiler--what does it cost to have the calipers painted and a decent cf spoiler~$1000-1500.
The "upgraded rotors" I think are a wash versus the stockers.
The alcantara steering wheel is cool, but maybe add another $250-500.
Now the forged internals, obviously has some value, but I will put no price on this for simplicity reasons.
So the p31 adds between $3750-5000 worth of value according to my numbers.
Now, is it worth about $4250-3000 (the difference) extra for warranty, factory
installed, no BS, forged internals, and no looking back saying "shoulda, woulda, coulda."
Obviously, I say yes.
Now if you just want a tune and an LSD, aftermarket is a much cheaper way to go.
But if you value some of the rest of the p31 options AND a warranty, it gets a little fuzzier.
I love everything about the p31 pkg and I never looked back, these numbers and comparision data just reinforce what I already knew--p31 is awesome!!
Last edited by black-clk500; 03-03-2011 at 08:51 AM.
03-03-2011, 08:57 AM
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2011 P31 C63 2015 CLA45
The p31 does not include the LSD in the US, that's roughly an extra 2000 clams.
I've said it on here before--I spent the extra $6000 (plus the $2000 for the LSD) because I wanted the most power and grip available with factory warranty and i was already in the mid $70s for the car and didn't want to look back and say to myself "shoulda, woulda, coulda"
So it cost me roughly $8000 to get the p31 and LSD.
Tune and aftermarket LSD combined is around $2500-3000 depending on the details.
Now I always liked the red calipers, I know some don't and the cf trunk spoiler--what does it cost to have the calipers painted and a decent cf spoiler~$1000-1500.
The "upgraded rotors" I think are a wash versus the stockers.
The alcantara steering wheel is cool, but maybe add another $250-500.
Now the forged internals, obviously has some value, but I will put no price on this for simplicity reasons.
So the p31 adds between $3750-5000 worth of value according to my numbers.
Now, is it worth about $4250-3000 (the difference) extra for warranty, factory
installed, no BS, forged internals, and no looking back saying "shoulda, woulda, coulda."
Obviously, I say yes.
Now if you just want a tune and an LSD, aftermarket is a much cheaper way to go.
But if you value some of the rest of the p31 options AND a warranty, it gets a little fuzzier.
I love everything about the p31 pkg and I never looked back, these numbers and comparision data just reinforce what I already knew--p31 is awesome!!
I've said it on here before--I spent the extra $6000 (plus the $2000 for the LSD) because I wanted the most power and grip available with factory warranty and i was already in the mid $70s for the car and didn't want to look back and say to myself "shoulda, woulda, coulda"
So it cost me roughly $8000 to get the p31 and LSD.
Tune and aftermarket LSD combined is around $2500-3000 depending on the details.
Now I always liked the red calipers, I know some don't and the cf trunk spoiler--what does it cost to have the calipers painted and a decent cf spoiler~$1000-1500.
The "upgraded rotors" I think are a wash versus the stockers.
The alcantara steering wheel is cool, but maybe add another $250-500.
Now the forged internals, obviously has some value, but I will put no price on this for simplicity reasons.
So the p31 adds between $3750-5000 worth of value according to my numbers.
Now, is it worth about $4250-3000 (the difference) extra for warranty, factory
installed, no BS, forged internals, and no looking back saying "shoulda, woulda, coulda."
Obviously, I say yes.
Now if you just want a tune and an LSD, aftermarket is a much cheaper way to go.
But if you value some of the rest of the p31 options AND a warranty, it gets a little fuzzier.
I love everything about the p31 pkg and I never looked back, these numbers and comparision data just reinforce what I already knew--p31 is awesome!!
03-03-2011, 09:29 AM
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
The p31 does not include the LSD in the US, that's roughly an extra 2000 clams.
I've said it on here before--I spent the extra $6000 (plus the $2000 for the LSD) because I wanted the most power and grip available with factory warranty and i was already in the mid $70s for the car and didn't want to look back and say to myself "shoulda, woulda, coulda"
So it cost me roughly $8000 to get the p31 and LSD.
Tune and aftermarket LSD combined is around $2500-3000 depending on the details.
Now I always liked the red calipers, I know some don't and the cf trunk spoiler--what does it cost to have the calipers painted and a decent cf spoiler~$1000-1500.
The "upgraded rotors" I think are a wash versus the stockers.
The alcantara steering wheel is cool, but maybe add another $250-500.
Now the forged internals, obviously has some value, but I will put no price on this for simplicity reasons.
So the p31 adds between $3750-5000 worth of value according to my numbers.
Now, is it worth about $4250-3000 (the difference) extra for warranty, factory
installed, no BS, forged internals, and no looking back saying "shoulda, woulda, coulda."
Obviously, I say yes.
Now if you just want a tune and an LSD, aftermarket is a much cheaper way to go.
But if you value some of the rest of the p31 options AND a warranty, it gets a little fuzzier.
I love everything about the p31 pkg and I never looked back, these numbers and comparision data just reinforce what I already knew--p31 is awesome!!
I've said it on here before--I spent the extra $6000 (plus the $2000 for the LSD) because I wanted the most power and grip available with factory warranty and i was already in the mid $70s for the car and didn't want to look back and say to myself "shoulda, woulda, coulda"
So it cost me roughly $8000 to get the p31 and LSD.
Tune and aftermarket LSD combined is around $2500-3000 depending on the details.
Now I always liked the red calipers, I know some don't and the cf trunk spoiler--what does it cost to have the calipers painted and a decent cf spoiler~$1000-1500.
The "upgraded rotors" I think are a wash versus the stockers.
The alcantara steering wheel is cool, but maybe add another $250-500.
Now the forged internals, obviously has some value, but I will put no price on this for simplicity reasons.
So the p31 adds between $3750-5000 worth of value according to my numbers.
Now, is it worth about $4250-3000 (the difference) extra for warranty, factory
installed, no BS, forged internals, and no looking back saying "shoulda, woulda, coulda."
Obviously, I say yes.
Now if you just want a tune and an LSD, aftermarket is a much cheaper way to go.
But if you value some of the rest of the p31 options AND a warranty, it gets a little fuzzier.
I love everything about the p31 pkg and I never looked back, these numbers and comparision data just reinforce what I already knew--p31 is awesome!!
I agree it can be worth it in some cases. If you find yourself at the track (Not the 1/4 mile track) often you will see the benefit from the P31. These tests have sure proven the P31 can hold its own! The surprise VCA is the underrated HP. If MB said the P31 has 520 crank HP there wouldn't have been a surprise. Again, I agree about the Warranty issues, but show me 1 C63 in the past 3 years that has had its warranty voided from a tune.
I'm not a hater or the P31, im just not a big fan of it based on what you get vs the price you pay. You get a lot, no question, but how much of it is practical for a daily driver? I also had further concerns about resale value and not being able to recoup the money from it.
In the end I opted out and spent $1200 for the tune instead saving $4800 and being side by side with the 6K option.
Shoulda woulda coulda is one sale away from fixing so im not worried about that.
Cant wait to get some Vbox data to compare though. 1 more day.
03-03-2011, 09:39 AM
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'14 911S (garage queen) '13 X3 (family hauler)
Great breakdown.
I agree it can be worth it in some cases. If you find yourself at the track (Not the 1/4 mile track) often you will see the benefit from the P31. These tests have sure proven the P31 can hold its own! The surprise VCA is the underrated HP. If MB said the P31 has 520 crank HP there wouldn't have been a surprise. Again, I agree about the Warranty issues, but show me 1 C63 in the past 3 years that has had its warranty voided from a tune.
I'm not a hater or the P31, im just not a big fan of it based on what you get vs the price you pay. You get a lot, no question, but how much of it is practical for a daily driver? I also had further concerns about resale value and not being able to recoup the money from it.
In the end I opted out and spent $1200 for the tune instead saving $4800 and being side by side with the 6K option.
Shoulda woulda coulda is one sale away from fixing so im not worried about that.
Cant wait to get some Vbox data to compare though. 1 more day.
I agree it can be worth it in some cases. If you find yourself at the track (Not the 1/4 mile track) often you will see the benefit from the P31. These tests have sure proven the P31 can hold its own! The surprise VCA is the underrated HP. If MB said the P31 has 520 crank HP there wouldn't have been a surprise. Again, I agree about the Warranty issues, but show me 1 C63 in the past 3 years that has had its warranty voided from a tune.
I'm not a hater or the P31, im just not a big fan of it based on what you get vs the price you pay. You get a lot, no question, but how much of it is practical for a daily driver? I also had further concerns about resale value and not being able to recoup the money from it.
In the end I opted out and spent $1200 for the tune instead saving $4800 and being side by side with the 6K option.
Shoulda woulda coulda is one sale away from fixing so im not worried about that.
Cant wait to get some Vbox data to compare though. 1 more day.
Thanks Propain.
You make some valid points.
However, the comment in bold, although true, equals a lot of money burned on depreciation.
If we're debating the value of the p31, the depreciation of swapping out of a car, especially our beloved AMGs, equals
And if I'm plunking down $70-80k for a car, I want to smile every time I look at it, that's what I meant about "w, c, shoulda."
nothing worse than wanting to get a new car after just buying one, I just try to do everything to avoid this inevitable feeling!
my .02
03-03-2011, 10:01 AM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thanks Propain.
You make some valid points.
However, the comment in bold, although true, equals a lot of money burned on depreciation.
If we're debating the value of the p31, the depreciation of swapping out of a car, especially our beloved AMGs, equals
And if I'm plunking down $70-80k for a car, I want to smile every time I look at it, that's what I meant about "w, c, shoulda."
nothing worse than wanting to get a new car after just buying one, I just try to do everything to avoid this inevitable feeling!
my .02
You make some valid points.
However, the comment in bold, although true, equals a lot of money burned on depreciation.
If we're debating the value of the p31, the depreciation of swapping out of a car, especially our beloved AMGs, equals
And if I'm plunking down $70-80k for a car, I want to smile every time I look at it, that's what I meant about "w, c, shoulda."
nothing worse than wanting to get a new car after just buying one, I just try to do everything to avoid this inevitable feeling!
my .02
Your 100% right. I'm just always thinking of exit strategies. It helps me make those hard decisions. I would have a big smile every time as well looking at your car. Its a sweet ride!
Yeah, I hate that feeling after buying a car. Kind of like the feeling when they announced the 2012 options about 3 months after I sold my 09 and got my 2010!
03-03-2011, 10:09 AM
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'14 911S (garage queen) '13 X3 (family hauler)
Your 100% right. I'm just always thinking of exit strategies. It helps me make those hard decisions. I would have a big smile every time as well looking at your car. Its a sweet ride!
Yeah, I hate that feeling after buying a car. Kind of like the feeling when they announced the 2012 options about 3 months after I sold my 09 and got my 2010!
Yeah, I hate that feeling after buying a car. Kind of like the feeling when they announced the 2012 options about 3 months after I sold my 09 and got my 2010!
The car companies prey on us addicts
Always dangling some new hooch in front of our noses.
BTW thanks for the compliment, the damn thing only has 1800 miles on it since Hell has frozen over up here
03-03-2011, 12:22 PM
#43
03-04-2011, 07:36 AM
#44
Super Member
I don't understand how anyone would be really
The P31 delivers much more than just "a tune and no warranty troubles," which by itself shouldn't be minimized (that's a huge relief for anyone that doesn't want to risk gigantic warranty repairs if they pop an engine). You have looked up the P31's option list, yes? You're getting much more for your $$$ than just a tune with the P31 option package. For many people, P31 makes the C63 an ideal car w/out having to void the warranty or install a Quaife, etc. IMO it's well worth the cost.
The P31 delivers much more than just "a tune and no warranty troubles," which by itself shouldn't be minimized (that's a huge relief for anyone that doesn't want to risk gigantic warranty repairs if they pop an engine). You have looked up the P31's option list, yes? You're getting much more for your $$$ than just a tune with the P31 option package. For many people, P31 makes the C63 an ideal car w/out having to void the warranty or install a Quaife, etc. IMO it's well worth the cost.
03-04-2011, 07:49 AM
#45
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
As many have already stated, P31's value is in the eye of the beholder.
If you view it as "ECU tune with no potential warranty issues" - it might not be the greatest deal. But that's not really fair to P31.
If you view it as "ECU tune plus built motor from factory, plus some performance and aesthetic goodies thrown in, plus full warranty" - P31 is an absolute steal for $6k.
Resale on the $6k invested into P31 should fairly closely mirror the overall depreciation on the vehicle, IMHO. P31 cars in theory should be among the most desireable C63s available in the secondary market - priced appropriately, I'd expect they might sell faster as well, although that's based on nothing more than a hunch. Time value of money suggests this would have inherent value, albeit tough to accurately gauge.
Resale on aftermarket mods is almost zero - in some cases it can be negative (i.e. actually hurts the value and attractiveness to potential buyers vs. staying stock). So, relatively speaking, I'd expect resale to be in favor of P31 as well.
If you view it as "ECU tune with no potential warranty issues" - it might not be the greatest deal. But that's not really fair to P31.
If you view it as "ECU tune plus built motor from factory, plus some performance and aesthetic goodies thrown in, plus full warranty" - P31 is an absolute steal for $6k.
Resale on the $6k invested into P31 should fairly closely mirror the overall depreciation on the vehicle, IMHO. P31 cars in theory should be among the most desireable C63s available in the secondary market - priced appropriately, I'd expect they might sell faster as well, although that's based on nothing more than a hunch. Time value of money suggests this would have inherent value, albeit tough to accurately gauge.
Resale on aftermarket mods is almost zero - in some cases it can be negative (i.e. actually hurts the value and attractiveness to potential buyers vs. staying stock). So, relatively speaking, I'd expect resale to be in favor of P31 as well.
Last edited by c32AMG-DTM; 03-04-2011 at 07:51 AM.
03-05-2011, 06:52 PM
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
As many have already stated, P31's value is in the eye of the beholder.
If you view it as "ECU tune with no potential warranty issues" - it might not be the greatest deal. But that's not really fair to P31.
If you view it as "ECU tune plus built motor from factory, plus some performance and aesthetic goodies thrown in, plus full warranty" - P31 is an absolute steal for $6k.
Resale on the $6k invested into P31 should fairly closely mirror the overall depreciation on the vehicle, IMHO. P31 cars in theory should be among the most desireable C63s available in the secondary market - priced appropriately, I'd expect they might sell faster as well, although that's based on nothing more than a hunch. Time value of money suggests this would have inherent value, albeit tough to accurately gauge.
Resale on aftermarket mods is almost zero - in some cases it can be negative (i.e. actually hurts the value and attractiveness to potential buyers vs. staying stock). So, relatively speaking, I'd expect resale to be in favor of P31 as well.
If you view it as "ECU tune with no potential warranty issues" - it might not be the greatest deal. But that's not really fair to P31.
If you view it as "ECU tune plus built motor from factory, plus some performance and aesthetic goodies thrown in, plus full warranty" - P31 is an absolute steal for $6k.
Resale on the $6k invested into P31 should fairly closely mirror the overall depreciation on the vehicle, IMHO. P31 cars in theory should be among the most desireable C63s available in the secondary market - priced appropriately, I'd expect they might sell faster as well, although that's based on nothing more than a hunch. Time value of money suggests this would have inherent value, albeit tough to accurately gauge.
Resale on aftermarket mods is almost zero - in some cases it can be negative (i.e. actually hurts the value and attractiveness to potential buyers vs. staying stock). So, relatively speaking, I'd expect resale to be in favor of P31 as well.
This is why depreciation is so bad on the AMG overall. Any car that has a "performance upgrade" on a low end model will always suffer the worst depreciation. Most people don't buy resold performance cars because they know how they have been used. Most people dont even know what the C63 is let alone what a "P31" is....
A performance option on top of a performance option will help you sell your car quicker, I agree, if the buyer is educated on the subject and specifically looking for it, but for the same asking price as all the other C63's. It will not fetch more money in my opinion. Just give it an edge on selling faster.
Resale on a modded cars within reason "Tune only" will most likely sell just as quick as a "P31" because when it comes time warranty will be out the window anyway..
Only time will tell.... Soon as the 2012 comes out get ready for a big hit on all previous models.
Last edited by propain; 03-05-2011 at 06:57 PM.
03-05-2011, 06:56 PM
#47
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Jon knows the incline spot I speak of im sure down in Mexico...
10.85 best run out of 2. Drop some weight and get on a slight decline like you guys and I should be close to your time. (High 9 low 10)
I'm waiting on tires still... mine are completely bald... 1/4 mile runs soon and more 60-130 times. I need to find a better spot....
03-05-2011, 07:02 PM
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'11 C63 w/ P31
Got the Performance box installed. I made 2 runs... both on inclines with no weight reduction.. 2 cars seats + Full spare.
Jon knows the incline spot I speak of im sure down in Mexico...
10.85 best run out of 2. Drop some weight and get on a slight decline like you guys and I should be close to your time. (High 9 low 10)
I'm waiting on tires still... mine are completely bald... 1/4 mile runs soon and more 60-130 times. I need to find a better spot....
Jon knows the incline spot I speak of im sure down in Mexico...
10.85 best run out of 2. Drop some weight and get on a slight decline like you guys and I should be close to your time. (High 9 low 10)
I'm waiting on tires still... mine are completely bald... 1/4 mile runs soon and more 60-130 times. I need to find a better spot....
I ran some low and mid 10s as well. Dont worry we put the box in _AMG_ 's car he only got 1 run and was slightly up hill and he ran a 10.7 (60-130) and he also has an mbh X pipe.
Practice makes perfect...what are you doing with the tranny? S or M ? If M when you shifting?
03-05-2011, 07:12 PM
#49
MBWorld Fanatic!
Nice...I ran full weight, never took anything out of the car.
I ran some low and mid 10s as well. Dont worry we put the box in _AMG_ 's car he only got 1 run and was slightly up hill and he ran a 10.7 (60-130) and he also has an mbh X pipe.
Practice makes perfect...what are you doing with the tranny? S or M ? If M when you shifting?
I ran some low and mid 10s as well. Dont worry we put the box in _AMG_ 's car he only got 1 run and was slightly up hill and he ran a 10.7 (60-130) and he also has an mbh X pipe.
Practice makes perfect...what are you doing with the tranny? S or M ? If M when you shifting?
I made a mistake on the runs based on your instructions. First run I ran in S mode. 2nd shifting into 3rd just above 60 didn't help. That run was 10.9.
Second run I was in M mode. 3rd gear at around 45 MPH. I was doing fine but I shifted before the 130 mark instead of going to redline out of habit when the spedo lit up red. Maybe 2 10ths there. When I got back I saw your instructions. I did the 3rd gear start correct but I shifted before the 130.
I Need more practice and a road with a decline. Gotta do some scouting.
03-05-2011, 07:13 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
Nice...I ran full weight, never took anything out of the car.
I ran some low and mid 10s as well. Dont worry we put the box in _AMG_ 's car he only got 1 run and was slightly up hill and he ran a 10.7 (60-130) and he also has an mbh X pipe.
Practice makes perfect...what are you doing with the tranny? S or M ? If M when you shifting?
I ran some low and mid 10s as well. Dont worry we put the box in _AMG_ 's car he only got 1 run and was slightly up hill and he ran a 10.7 (60-130) and he also has an mbh X pipe.
Practice makes perfect...what are you doing with the tranny? S or M ? If M when you shifting?
Sammy, thanks for keeping a look out for me during that run. Lol
