Speedriven1

If your ECU is tuned then it's cracked. You'd need to get your tuner to send you a file to load onto the Block Tuner (the computer sees the BT just like any other thumb drive) and a stock file (which we can provide or which you can get, again, from whoever tuned the car).

You don't need a Speedriven tune to make use of the Speedriven Block Tuner, in other words.

^ a bit off-topic, though. We can discuss in Block Tuner thread?

SonnyakaPig

Don't you still have to get your ECU flashed back to the OEM firmware version before you return to the dealer?

If you didn't do this, could the dealership know that your ECU has different than stock firmware?

Edit: btw, I posted a question in the thead that you linked.

dodger63

Well il say this I've had my tune since 2,500 miles I have 25,000 beat the **** out of it miles 150 1/4 mile runs pocono all day 160+ mph 2 full tanks of gas, and this past weekend Sebring car runs great....

rory breaker

I can easily admit that I had no idea they had a timestamp on when the ECU was opened, that is really valuable information thanks. Whether a dealer does it or not, to know they have the capability at any time to check it and pursue a warranty denial is something good for the community to know vs just assuming you can flash back to stock and be a-ok.

Speedriven1

That time-stamp (and the similar "flash counters" in Porsche's Bosch ECUs) are easily defeated. Most dealers don't have the tools to look, but whether they do or not, I stand by the statements made in my post on warranties: the best asset you have when it comes to warranty coverage is your good relationship with your dealer.

Speedriven1

1. you can do the flashing with the Block Tuner on the fly, in a matter of 2-3 minutes (if that). That is the point of it.

2. your dealer won't know with our tune, unless they line up a showroom-fresh car with yours and drag race ... at which point, they've lost the moral high ground on any and all claims.

propain

+1

Thats probably the bigger picture. If these engines were prone to failure it would worry us a lot more. They are really built to last to having any issues *knock on wood* is not likely.

SonnyakaPig

I experienced something interesting. When I first bought my CPO car, I took it to the dealer for a warranty repair: window regulator.

I was curious about something related to my transmission and coming from a previously modified car, I asked the shop foreman -- who is very knowledgeable about MB -- whether he could run some checks to ensure that my C63 was not previously tuned by the former owner.

He said there is no way that he could check to see if the car was tuned. He said the only way would be if the car's rev limiter (for example) was raised and the car experienced some problem at a rpm that by factory standards could not occur, because the OEM tune had a lower rpm limiter.

If the car's rev limiter was raised and the engine blew at the higher than OEM rev limit, the ECU would take a snap shot of that and that's how it could be identified that the ECU was tuned.

But, he said there are no markers or counters or anything like that.

SonnyakaPig

LOL! nice

Thanks for the response.

But, if you plan on taking your car in for service and you want to see if the dealership has any updates, in order for them to flash new updates, your car has to have dealer-compatible firmware, and once your ECU has been opened by a tuner and the firmware changed to accomodate the new tune, the firmware would have to be flashed back to OE firmware, and I was under the impression that the programmer cannot do that.

Plus, if you have a tune, your ECU has been opened, and the firmware changed from OEM firmware to a different firmware. So, even if you flash your tune back to stock with the programmer before you go into the dealership, if you don't tell the dealership to avoid flashing your ECU, if they did flash your ECU, wouldn't that change your firmware back to OEM firmware, thus necessitating another round of having your ECU flashed back to a non-OEM firmware to accept the aftermarket tunes, and the programmer cannot do this.

Seems pretty confusing actually. But I'm very interested in learning more from you.

GHAZAN

They can look at the ECU and see that it's been opened. That's one way

SonnyakaPig

So true.

But, our cars have some issues that are not concretely understood. For example, gas cap issues, purge valve issues, throttle/pedal issues, and they all seem to cause similar problems: chugging, complete power loss, random and numerous error messages.

These issues may have nothing to do with engine life, but they do usually require a trip to the dealer. And dealership's don't seem to know exactly what's causing these problems. And tuners don't seem to know either.

So, even though our seemingly bomb-proof engines will likely survive all of our lingering questions, the customer still doesn't have a solid understanding about these issues (i.e., whether they stem from manufacturing defect or slight issues with tunes).

propain

Its my understanding that when they "Crack" your ECU it opens the ability to have files written though the OBDii port. Without having the car tuned this process wouldnt be possible. So even if they flash your tune you can overwrite that tune using the "Block" back to either the factory on the "Block" or the tune you have on it.

SonnyakaPig

That's true. However, a MB owner can probably open his ECU every day if he wants and still maintain a factory warranty on his powertrain.

Perhaps he may damage his ECU in the process, therein voiding the warranty on the physical ECU, but unless the tune is altered and that tune causes a problem, opening the ECU itself probably doesn't show whether the ECU has been tuned.

Thoughts?

Speedriven1

^ no such thing.

SonnyakaPig

Unfortunatly, that's not correct. Once the dealership flashes back to their firmware, the "Block" cannot plug into your OBDII and tune your car without your ECU being re-opened and flashed to a non-OEM firmware.

SonnyakaPig

I'm glad you pointed this out. It was covered very well in your other thread.

Speedriven1

Some tunes allow the ECU to be re-flashed by OBD, but the dealer flashing the car back to stock (which almost never happens, btw - just something I've read about here on MBWorld) can whack the ability to just "load a tuned file" over the OBD on a 63AMG. It depends on what they flash - if they just load an update, then it won't. If it's an emissions update recall, then it won't. If it's a complete override after a major service, it might.

If that does happen, you may (50/50) need to send your ECU back to the tuner again.

propain

I had a purge value problem on my 2009. I never tuned it.

My biggest fear bring my car in for some minor fix like a purge valve or other minor problems is having the dealer flash over my tune back to OEM because there is a new version or just because he wants to. Jeremy said he would reflash my ECU for free if this happened "Once" but id rather have the other option.

Speedriven1

Just addressed this, below. One more time, though: what you're saying is true, but not always the case. It depends on what the dealer flashes, and even then: you're talking about a 63AMG.

On a 500, 55 AMG, 55K AMG, 600, or 65 AMG (etc.) the dealer can do whatever they want, and you can load a tune file from the OBD.

propain

Its threads like these that make me love this forum. Learn something new! Thanks!

xtyper

Problem with this though is that if the dealer physically inspects the ECU, they will definitely able to tell it's been opened and tampered with. This is why some go the safer, more expensive route of purchasing a spare stock ECU. But even then I wonder if the dealer could still tell that the stock ECU had only been in the car for a short period of time before the service visit, through some timestamp or counter mechanism.

Even Money

There are some dealers that sell Kleeman tunes and other Kleeman products.

Speedriven1

That doesn't mean Kleeman is "MB approved".

SonnyakaPig

Thank you for the clarification above. That makes sense. Now I know that not every time the dealer installs an update the firmware is changed. It just depends on what's being done at the dealership.

SonnyakaPig

I'm sort of glad to hear it happens on stock cars. Well, mines fixed, so no worries now.