propain

I always thought there would be more power tuning a P31 to a tune. I thought that with the understanding that the P31 C63 was stock with 480 crank HP.

It has been proven that the P31 was underrated and producing more like 500 crank HP stock putting it side by side with an OE tuned non P31 C63. So with that knowledge many imaged there really couldn't be more more to gain.

Going by this tune and dyno and the statement of how the machine dyno's low your saying your standard tune brings the P31 to 535 crank HP? About 35 more HP than a standard Non P31 tuned C63? Same tune as you put on the Non P31 C63?

Should be putting down some amazing tune only numbers on the 1/4 if they translate to the track... Great..Now we need to add another variable to the records books "Fastest tune only P31"

_AMG_

Great gains Sammy!! Im very impressed the power a tuned (OE Tuned to be exact) P31 is putting down.

Even Money

How do you figure this? According to the dyno plot on post #19, the non p31 tuned max hp was 421 hp, and the tuned p31 was 427 hp...hardly much of a difference.

black-clk500

^^^this is how I read it too.
Looks like the max hp gain for the p31 tune is roughly 6hp over non-p31 tune.
Maybe that's the internals--honestly, 6hp at these levels is basically irrelevant, no?

xtyper

That's just the peak horsepower difference. If you look across the power curves, you will see the P31 making noticeably better power, especially in the lower RPM ranges.

Even Money

No doubt there's more area under the curve, but how is this going to translate to the 1/4 mile? The non P31 tuned car has more than enough torque down low for a daily driver. I'd love to see some track runs.

Just my $.02, but if I had a P31, I would only tune it if I got some headers...in which case I'd have to tune it anyway.

badu

do you have LSD? Does the tuned non-p31 car you ran with have LSD? It sounds like a power delivery issue.

DD GT3 RD

I agree, this is what seems logical. But when I raced Xtyper we were exactly even (before my tune). So we must race again now that I have a tune, and see!

black-clk500

yes, GT3's car has a LSD (I built the car), not sure about Xtyper's
I think you might be on to something with the street runs data.

c32AMG-DTM

xtyper's car is actually making more power near redline than DD GT3 RD's, both post-tuning. Most all of the dyno runs (stock and modded) show an unusual oscillation around 6600 rpm, then smooth back out until around 7200 rpm (+/- a bit... eyeballing it). The oscillation coincides with a peak HP number for the P31 car - doesn't appear to also for xtyper's car, however.

What's interesting, is comparing the orange (xtyper tuned) and aqua blue (DD GT3 RD stock) dyno runs. The dynos suggest a meaningful advantage in HP and TQ, throughout the entire rpm range, for xtyper's car. Yet, head-to-head on the street, they experienced identical performance. Curious.

Jons95c36amg

Enough of the dyno #s. Lets see some real world times. Its very likely that a tuned p31 c63 is faster then a tuned non p31 because of the different internals.

propain

Im overall confused about the Data to be honest.

Going by what DD said in his warning in the OP that this particular dyno reads low and that his baseline is more like 420. So if his baseline is 420 then im just adding the HP he says is lost by the low reading dyno.

The confusion part that im having is Xtypers dyno chart with a tune came in at 420 and DD's at 390ish yet they were side by side on the street. So on one hand DD's can say "Well thats because the dyno reads low" but on other hand that would make Xtypers results low as well...

So something is weird with the data. Why is the baseline P31 coming in so low? If its indeed acurate how did he stay side by side with a tuned non P31 with 30 more rwhp....


Also, still havent gotten an answer on if this is the standard C63 tune or a special tune for the P31. My guess from the lack of response is that this is a "better" tune tailored more for this application.



To much wacky data..... need real word results or both cars on a different dyno on the same day.

BenzoBoi

Nice gains guys!

DD GT3 RD

Was driving around tonight, picked up my buddy who was in my car before the tune last night...and I definitely feel like there is more power, especially the torque. He also said he felt a good difference.

we shall find out soon

c32AMG-DTM

Agree with you, propain. I'm as confused as you, by the exact same data discrepancy. Doesn't make sense that xtyper's OE tuned car shows a huge HP and TQ advantage vs. DD's stock P31 baseline, from the exact same dyno (albeit different days) - yet they're side by side on the street at those same states of tuning.

If you believe the real-world performance on the street, and assuming nearly equivalent weights of both vehicles when they met up... then something's inconsistent with the dyno results.

Either way, sounds like they'll meet up and roll them again in their current state, plus DD mentioned he's going to run some more VBOX runs, so we'll have some more good info to compare soon.

Gotta hand it to these guys, it's great of them to document everything and share it with the forums. Hat's off to them for that.

cek

I think this thread (and testing) needs a mulligan. It just don't compute.

Pickles

There is a lot of confusion in this thread.
Is there no-one on this forum that has an "in" with a M.B. Dealer/AMG etc, that can say FACTUALLY, where does the extra power from P31 come from.
I've heard SLS internals, ECU etc etc, but no-one seems to be able to say precisely how the increased power is obtained.
And of course, there are several other 6.3 variants with power going up around 380KW.....well what are the differences there.....camshafts, cylinder heads etc?
I've not had much experience with M.B. stuff, but a bit more with G.M. V8s, where it's common knowledge where the extra power comes from in the various engines.
Cheers, Pickles.

Strafe1

I know you're looking for documented, factual information here. Talking with tuners like Kleeman, the horsepower variances between different models with the 6.3 are ecu related, primarily. Then the air intakes and exhaust manifolds have different specs, increasing horsepower as well. The SLS internals increase rpm response, but negligible hp.
Again, I know you've probably heard this and just want the word out of the engineer's mouth. I am happy with what Cory has told me. I don't believe there is any other physical difference in the engines, other than the titanium internals.

Mikegpr03

I have a P30 and with the updated tune I got from Jeremy I hit 433

Pickles

Thanks. It would be good if we did know wouldn't it...we could then simply go to M.B. or AMG, and we could buy the bits, or do a "factory" ECU re-map, & end up with 386KW or whatever....and it'd still be "Factory"!
Cheers, Pickles.

Mort

I doubt it. Wishful thinking.

SALES@OETUNING

As far as the factory ECU tune is concerned, the difference in power between a higher factory rated P31 C63 vs. a regular non-PP C63, is due to 1 throttle limiting map being different. On PP cars all values in this particular map are maxed out (100% throttle opening at WOT), compared to a "limited" version of the very same map resulting in throttle closure at 5500rpm on non-PP cars. Changes to just this throttle map alone on non-PP vehicles result in +35-40whp as seen from dyno testing. The expected power output is bumped up to the same level as a P31 factory tuned vehicle.

rory breaker

So you're saying a P31 tune is essentially the throttle control, and that's the same as the run of the mill aftermarket tune?

VaclavSV

Cant wait for street results! A useful tune for my P31 could be epic!

khmergod

I would like to know the 1/4 times and traps.