Originally Posted by ATL_MB

Not to take this thread even further off course (although it was stupid to begin with), but anybody paying anything close to the federal marginal rate is an ***-clown idiot. I am well into the highest U.S. tax rate, and pay about 18% average income tax. That is typical. I remember an article about V.P. Cheney making over $14 million a year while in office and paying right at 15%, because almost everything he made was dividends, which is taxed at 15%.

I am in Hong Kong now, and everybody in the U.S. talks about how low taxes are in Hong Kong (15% max average rate), but no one here believes it. Overall, we don't pay much more in the U.S. because there are NO deductions in Hong Kong (other than a small exclusion for low wage earners and a small housing expense deduction). So the advertised rate isn't everything.

With regard to property taxes, there are none here, which is great, right? Not even close. US$28,000 will probably pay 3 to 4 month's rent on a decent 3-bedroom 1,200 sq. ft. apartment. Instead of property taxes, the government owns almost all the land and closely controls it in order to raise money through periodic land auctions.

The above rant, of course, ignores payroll taxes, which are high, but again the highly paid don't pay the whole way. SSI cuts off around $105,000 or so, I believe, which means that someone making $300,000 pays just 1/3 the average rate of someone making $25,000.

So if we are going to complain about taxes, at least recognize that the marginal rates don't mean much.

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

"Easy" for a couple to make $2M? $2M isn't "a lot of money"? Seriously? The median income in our poll is about a tenth of that. And reduce that by another half for the median US household.

Originally Posted by propain

Funny what some people feel is a lot of money. I guess it depends on where you live.

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

It most certainly does. Geographical area cost-of-living, along with proximity to wealth, will shape one's perception of "a lot of money."

Agreed. But the point as well is the cost of living is so much higher in the areas where the biggest wealth is. A tiny little cape in my area sells for over 500K. Its probably the size of the barn thats next to the 5K sq ft home in TX that people paid 300K for.


Attainable... sure. Easily? No, assuming they didn't just luck their way into it (e.g. inheritance, lottery, etc.). If it were easy, a helluva lot more people would earn income at that level... no?

Agreed not everyone will be able to. I do not consider myself the smartest person by any means and I was very much a blue colar mentality guy up until I was about 19 years old when I said to myself "There has to be a better way". People settle into life and dont take chances. You will never be rich or well of if you dont take chances. You are right, no one is going to just hand you that money. Unless you are a Doctor you will have to figure out another way.


Gotta disagree with you there... I'd argue anyone in that position is quite fortunate and most definitely "well off." Put the question back to you, if that family ($2MM income, several nice cars, home worth $1.5 million, million-dollar boat, etc.) is "no longer that well off" - who is? Have to be a billionaire to be well-off these days?

You are right. I dont mean to come off as snobby. What I mean by you are no longer "Well off" is you are by far no longer rich or wealthy after paying off those things.

Everything's relative. In the United States, if you make $250,000 of household income, you're already better off from an income standpoint than over 98% of the population (and, apparently, the bulk of C63 owners).

Depending on where you live, but I agree. If you make 250K household income you can pretty much live anywhere and make it. You dont however get to afford multiple 70K cars.

I forget the exact numbers, but if your household income is $1,000,000 or more, I believe you land in the top 0.2% or thereabouts (i.e. better off than 99.8% of Americans). $2,000,000 of gross household annual income is a very "well-off" position to be in, regardless of where you live in the United States.

Not sure, but yes, wealth and money is very much concentrated in the US to about 10 states.

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

What's up with people calling this thread stupid, yet contributing long posts to it?

By the way, I didn't start this thread in order to discuss income or wealth. I just wanted to set up the poll, and the only way to do that is with a thread.

Originally Posted by propain

Its stupid because you cant verify the data so the results are meaningless.


I enjoy a good discussion though so I figured I would make some good use of it. The poll data is meaningless. The discussion is good though.

Originally Posted by ATL_MB

Not to take this thread even further off course (although it was stupid to begin with), but anybody paying anything close to the federal marginal rate is an ***-clown idiot. I am well into the highest U.S. tax rate, and pay about 18% average income tax. That is typical. I remember an article about V.P. Cheney making over $14 million a year while in office and paying right at 15%, because almost everything he made was dividends, which is taxed at 15%.

I am in Hong Kong now, and everybody in the U.S. talks about how low taxes are in Hong Kong (15% max average rate), but no one here believes it. Overall, we don't pay much more in the U.S. because there are NO deductions in Hong Kong (other than a small exclusion for low wage earners and a small housing expense deduction). So the advertised rate isn't everything.

With regard to property taxes, there are none here, which is great, right? Not even close. US$28,000 will probably pay 3 to 4 month's rent on a decent 3-bedroom 1,200 sq. ft. apartment. Instead of property taxes, the government owns almost all the land and closely controls it in order to raise money through periodic land auctions.

The above rant, of course, ignores payroll taxes, which are high, but again the highly paid don't pay the whole way. SSI cuts off around $105,000 or so, I believe, which means that someone making $300,000 pays just 1/3 the average rate of someone making $25,000.

So if we are going to complain about taxes, at least recognize that the marginal rates don't mean much.

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

Given that the shape of the distribution is plausible, smooth, not changing much as additional votes come in, and consistent with other sources of data, I think the results are far from meaningless.

Moreover, this type of survey is commonly used in social science and business because such surveys do have some value, even though they're far from perfect, but that's the case with just about all research methods used in these domains. Let's not let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

Originally Posted by ATL_MB

Not to take this thread even further off course (although it was stupid to begin with), but anybody paying anything close to the federal marginal rate is an ***-clown idiot. I am well into the highest U.S. tax rate, and pay about 18% average income tax. That is typical. I remember an article about V.P. Cheney making over $14 million a year while in office and paying right at 15%, because almost everything he made was dividends, which is taxed at 15%.

Originally Posted by enochroot

Seriously folks, I'm waiting for the "how big is your e-*****" poll.

Originally Posted by Helms

what a thread! oh my..

Originally Posted by Dr. Q

over 2 M (cents) hahaha.. $ 2 000 0.00 !!!!!

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

Being serious, please tell us how you pay such low taxes, of course without getting into specifics of anything confidential. Over the years, I've asked multiple accountants about how to lower my taxes and all they ever come up with are relatively trivial things.

Originally Posted by propain

Still civil and no one has called bs yet on anyone so its all good.

I agree with the last poster. My richest friend makes over 14 mil a year before any payouts like his payroll ect.

Originally Posted by propain

If you say so.

But this is the internet. We are all rich good looking people who have the bodies of Adonis and the ***** size of ron Jeremy.

While im sure some have answered honestly, Its an anonymous poll so I would take it with a grain of salt.

Even if it wasnt anonymous its human nature to exaggerate. So I would take that poll and move everything up 1 less and that is probably your result.

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

propain already answered this (I believe). It depends heavily on where one's income is generated. If most of your current income is derived from your existing wealth, you can achieve very low income tax rates. If most of your income is earned income, you won't.

For example, if you have a $5MM muni bond portfolio yielding 3%, that's providing $150,000 of income. The tax rate on that discrete piece of your overall income is 0%. Keeping it easy, let's say you also have a $5MM blue-chip stock portfolio also yielding 3%. That's providing $150,000 of dividend income, taxed at 15%. So, your $10MM portfolio is generating $300,000 of income per year, and that income is averaging a 7.5% federal tax rate. Maybe your also have $500,000 of earned income, and your average tax rate is around 27%. So, you have $800k of income, and an overall federal income tax rate of around 19%.



So his company's revenue is $14MM? If revenue, it really doesn't paint a picture of how much income he's making (or even how much profit the company produces)... am confused by the way you worded that.

Originally Posted by SMP

Let's keep this short and simple. It wasn't a rant, nor was I complaining.

The difference between you and me? I don't have to ask or talk my wife into buying a Black Series (your own words on AMG Private Lounge).

Looks like you're the ***-clown idiot, admitting being pu$$y whipped on a public forum.

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

Being serious, please tell us how you pay such low taxes, of course without getting into specifics of anything confidential. Over the years, I've asked multiple accountants about how to lower my taxes and all they ever come up with are relatively trivial things.

Originally Posted by enochroot

Seriously folks, I'm waiting for the "how big is your e-*****" poll.

Originally Posted by jvanbrecht

I'm not going to get into the trap that this thread is (although I did answer the poll).

What I will say is.. people who are rich (and stay rich throughout their entire lives).. regardless of salary, did not get their by pissing their money away on lots of toys, they are frugal. There are of course the exceptions, trust fund babies, people who have family money, etc. What I am talking about is the guy who started out with nothing and ended up rich.

Those who get rich quick and easy.. and own all those flashy cars, big houses.. huge parties, etc etc... read: sports stars, some musicians, etc, usually end up being broke by the end of their careers because they did not know how to handle the money that was handed to them without having to really work for it..

So, what does all that mean.. the type of car a person drives has less to do with money, and more to do with passion, at least with regards to those like me who had to stretch and save and fight for the cars we like and drive.

Originally Posted by IAA-C63

Inaccurate responses are possible in all surveys, internet or otherwise. And you can't ask for the responses to be verifiable because that would mean you don't need the survey.