DKubicki

Absolutely, the pistons were supposed to be in today I will stop by tomorrow to check on it. I should have a update on Monday.

Merc63

Should snap some pics of the pistons and cylinders, etc.

DKubicki

Here are some quick photos from my iphone...

Merc63

How did the cylinders look in person? Was there any cross hatching visible?

I can't see much from the picture...

Have you talked to the techs about the repair, break in, etc?

DKubicki

So to the untrained eye they looked and felt really smooth. As far as break in he said they would do the initial testing then I should as you said drive the crap out it to help the seals get seated.

Pickles

Yeah, in terms of my previous post.....what does the dealer say has caused your problem?
Cheers, Pickles.

bhamg

I don't think you should worry too much. When my M5 engine was rebuilt under warranty the dealership considered only two techs to be qualified for the job. Both built race motors in their spare time. The one who did it - and did a fantastic job - failed to meet book. He took his time and did it right. Only when a thread pops up like this do I ever even think about it.

Merc63

They should have went over the cylinders with something like this:

http://www.brushresearch.com/cylinder_hones.php

Here's a picture of a fresh hone. This creates a good surface for the rings to wear into:



Hopefully everything works out for you...

Thanks for the updates, keep them coming.

bhamg

Regardless of the VIN-matching issue I'm more than a little surprised that MBZ doesn't replace the short block in situations like this.

Merc63

The VIN issue, isn't even an issue. It would take them 5 minutes to stamp the block.

There would be some down time getting the block state side, but that would be the proper fix for this IMO. I wouldn't settle for anything less.

I am no mechanic or engine builder. But I did work in a local engine shop years back tearing down engines for rebuild and the only time we didn't re-hone the cylinders was when the engine was barely ran. IE, it would be put in, fire up and within a few days or a week spin a bearing so the engine would get sent back to us.. This was very rare, but it did happen occasionally.

bhamg

I think my concern might be whether too much of the spray-on coating would be removed with the second honing.

The cylinder bores themselves are also unique. The M156 is world's first production engine to feature cylinder bores with twin-wire-arc-spray (TWAS) coating. TWAS is a new process that creates a very low friction surface, which is twice as hard as conventional steel. The application involves using water at high pressure to roughen the cylinder walls. Afterwards, high voltage is run through two metal wires, which begin to melt. An atomized gas is then used to spray the metal particles from the meted wires on to the cylinder walls. Afterwards, the cylinders are honed.

C63newdude

Yeah but that was prior to 1999 when Porsche use to use oil for lubrication and cooling.

C63newdude

On my first 10000 miles I had to put 2 quarts. From 10000 miles to 19500 miles I put one quart.

DKubicki

The consumption test was 2 quarts after 600 miles.

DKubicki

I agree I let them know I was not happy about not getting a small block, but apparently MB would not budge. The good thing is I still have about year and a half of warranty left so if this doesn't work then they will have to fix it again.

DKubicki

I have 20,000 miles on the car so seals should of seated already.

Merc63

Drive the **** out of it when you get it back. If it doesn't burn oil, trade it in once the warranty is up. Get a new one.

Or if the problem persists, demand a short block. Then I'd be comfortable keeping it.

Funny. My pops bought a brand new GMC truck years back. He made them put 2 new crate engines in it.. 1st because it was knocking bad, piston slap. Second time, they change the oil and got antifreeze into the oil somehow so they put another engine in it.. No pissing around from GM on these issues... You'd think a company with the $$ and rep like MB would just throw you a short block and get it over with.

I am beginning to think that the uppers in MB don't give a **** about their rep anymore from the things I hear on here and my own experience with them...

Have you tried calling MB USA head offices, etc. I'd be raising a **** storm. Get advice from local engine shops on the issue. Explain to them that your re-sale value on this car just went to complete **** so MB can save themselves a few dollars and just throw in new pistons, etc, instead of fixing it properly and issuing you a short block.

DKubicki

Calling MB USA is the next step, I had another talk with the service manger and it was pretty adamant that the block was fine according to MB's standards and that his claim would be denied if he tried to send the block into MB. Does anyone have any advice on a good person to contact at MB USA to complain? Never had to do it so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Pickles

Good point...never thought of that....it raises a few issues...Firstly, I wouldn't think ya'd put in new pistons without a hone?.....but if ya do hone, well yeah, what about this coating?
Cheers, Pickles.

Merc63

Id rather have a hone then this coating.. Every other engine seems to do fine without this coating. Plus MB hones the cylinders after applying it so how much is really left of it??

Whatever is left is definitely not going to assist in seating the new rings, but makes things worst.

Merc63

What exactly are MBs standards in a case like this? What is taken into account to determine the block is fine?

These are questions I'd have for the SA.

bhamg

But is the block sleeved or not? If not then a second honing might prove problematic over the long haul. But a second/third honing might have been accounted for by the engineers with respect to the thickness of the coating. Who knows...?

Quadcammer

since when does replacing a few piston/rod assemblies take 3 to 4 months?

Quadcammer

no.

Current standard for porsche is 1.6L in 1000KM, or 1 quart per 350 or so miles.

Its absolutely ridiculous.

Some DFI 911 engines burn quite a bit of oil and others don't, but with porsche's ridiculously high allowable oil burnoff, nothing gets done about it.

AS for the air cooled cars, a car that burns much more than 1 quart per 700 miles or so is likely in need of new valve guides.

DKubicki

I did ask that and it appears that the walls need to be really messed up before they will replace the small block (i.e. scoring). The service manager told me that of the 12-15 63 motors he has had to rebuild in his time with MB that non have come back and non had the small block replaced. Not sure I really believe but that is what he said. So I guess we shall see. I hope to have the car back beginning of next week.