Thrilla

Glad to hear it worked out in the end. It's great to see the MB AUS and your dealer are willing to back up their product and come up with a reasonable settlement.

morganb

Yes, thats quite an attraction. It will be a complete rebuild so to have that as peace of mind after all the work is worth the money I am putting in.

bhamg

morganb - Please find out if your cylinders will be honed. I'm curious as to the fate of the spray-on coating, thx.

C63sydney

My heart skipped a beat reading the last page when you stated that it would be 35k to fix....

This is great for all C63 owners especially in Australia as its proof that MB have agreed that the problem exists on AMG's shoulders.

5k to fix is not much when considering the new price on these cars.

Also, just to clarify how far out of warranty was your car?

sjhugh

I have to disagree on what others see as a reasonable outcome.

If it’s a known fault, 5k as the owner’s contribution is 5k too much.

Warranty here on engine work is nothing to get excited about, it’s automatic when carried out by an authorised dealer for the manufacturer.

Aussies don’t have the best consumer protection in the world but we do have some.
A read of the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission (ACCC) website will enlighten.

All manufacturer warranties in Australia are over ruled by the goods and services legislation (The Trade Practices Act) and just because something fails outside of the manufacturer's warranty period, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t fall within the legislation. There are many cases where it still must be treated as a warranty issue.

A couple of sections taken from the ‘Trade Practices Act’

Of course if the manufacturer decides not to comply with the ‘Trade Practices Act’ then it’s up to the consumer to spend up big and take the manufacturer into Court at their own cost.
That’s the loophole, you’ll get advice but no help from the ACCC and the manufacturer will hope to wear you down as they’ll be able to afford to fight you until you give up.

A class action and a big push for the story to make the mainstream media is what's needed to bring this issue to a head.


.

bhamg

Thanks sjhugh. Here is how it reads in the U.S., courtesy of Wikipedia:

In the United States, the obligation is in Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). This warranty will apply to a merchant (that is, a person who makes an occupation of selling things) who regularly deals in the type of merchandise sold.

Under US law, goods are 'merchantable' if they meet the following conditions:

- The goods must conform to the standards of the trade as applicable to the contract for sale.
- They must be fit for the purposes such goods are ordinarily used, even if the buyer ordered them for use otherwise.
- They must be uniform as to quality and quantity, within tolerances of the contract for sale.
- They must be packed and labeled per the contract for sale.
- They must meet the specifications on the package labels, even if not so specified by the contract for sale.

If the merchandise is sold with an express "guarantee", the terms of the implied warranty of merchantability will fill the gaps left by that guarantee. If the terms of the express guarantee are not specified, they will be considered to be the terms of the implied warranty of merchantability. The UCC allows sellers to disclaim the implied warranty of merchantability, provided the disclaimer is made conspicuously and the disclaimer explicitly uses the term "merchantability" in the disclaimer.

Some states, however, have implemented the UCC such that this can not be disclaimed.

morganb

The car is 6 months out of warranty and I purchased the car from the original owner.

sjhugh, I would have loved a new crate AMG motor all paid for by MB Aust. Worst case was me having to foot all the bill and/or go to court to argue my case. The case may be made by MB Aust for me contributing to the failure by driving with no or low water or other contributing factor to the car damage. (This did not happen but how to prove this in court).
I understand your point of view but when does it become the owners problem and not the manufacturer? I also have a C36 AMG and recently did the head gasket on it at 160K KM's and 17 years old. That seems to be a common issue with the C36's as they age. In this case I would say most people would agree this is on the owners side of responsability.
In the case of my C63 I am satisfied with the outcome but also understand how some may not be. I am also not sure it would be worth the battle for up to 5K worth of cost. Thanks for your comments.

Pickles

Mate, I reckon you got a GOOD result.
What does the paperwork say?.....Did they hone the bores....any chance of posting the paperwork up?
Regardless...a good result.....you must be very relieved.....so now you can just enjoy.
Cheers, Pickles.

sjhugh

Normal wear and tear, failure from age and misuse is the owner’s problem.
It’s the manufacturer’s problem is when the part is known to fail and has undergone a running change during the MY2010 build cycle to rectify the possibility of further issues.

I see your reasoning and for 5k I would have most likely done the same.
That is why they win. If they were not responsible, you’d have gotten nothing.

.

Jasonoff

After digging through that Weistec 3.0 garage build thread it doesn't look like a huge job to replace the head bolts (just the bolts).

I haven't gone though the WIS but it appears once you pull the intake manifold and the valve covers the bolts are exposed so you could then do them one at a time.

Probably something I would consider doing myself once I pass my warranty.

Sincity

^ It is about a 15 hour job.

Jasonoff

From what I understand that 15h job includes removing the head to replace the potentially damaged gasket?

Sincity

Correct. I don't believe it is advisable to just replace the bolts. Something about clamping/seal of the heads w/block or something like that.

Jasonoff

Humm. Can anyone chime in about this?

I would think you could replace them one at a time in the correct torquing sequence.

Sincity

That would be ideal. I believe it was discussed somewhere in these mutiple headbolt threads and the concensus was to remove the heads.

Jasonoff

I did a search through those threads and I didn't see anyone confirming that it's required.

It was asked here but I didn't see reply from bhamg
https://mbworld.org/forums/5104039-post4.html

There's 10 bolts per head. If there's noting wrong with the gasket I just can't see how you wouldn't be able to replace one bolt at a time.

Anyone want to be a guinea pig?

bhamg

That's because I don't have a definitive answer. I was once taught the "incremental" head-bolt torquing technique by an experienced tech and engine builder, of incrementally torquing each bolt, backing off slightly, re-torquing at the next higher increment et al. IIRC he said stages of 50%, 75% and lastly 100%. But I think he was teaching me a foolproof shade-tree garage method of safely hitting desired torque values. I've heard people say head bolts should be re-torqued after a hot run and cool-down, and others say to expect a minute amount of warpage after head bolts are removed. One head bolt at a time, I don't know...

Jasonoff

Is anyone Weistec monitoring this thread that could chime in?

Pickles

IMHO any headbolt issue creating less tension in a bolt, & replacement of all or any, is liable to create head gasket issues.
If I had a headbolt issue, I'd want all the bolts replaced, as well as head removal, gasket replacement, & all the other checks involved, that are necessary to make sure the job's 100% "RIGHT".
Cheers, Pickles.

Even Money

THat's why it takes about 15 hours, heard this from several folks.

Jasonoff

I would 100% agree if you removed a bolt and drove the car.

Pulling a bolt one at a time while the block is cold is a completely different story.

EDIT: I'm suggesting this as a preventative measure before any signs of a problem. I.E. current bolts are in perfect working order.

C63sydney

Was your car redirected to Sydney Benz of Sydney or was it warranted and being fixed at one of the smaller dealers. I ask this as I would imagine it would be alot easier for all these problems sent to the larger workshop.

2 months without a car, yikes! did they offer a temp car while yours is being fixed?

I also could imagine them cutting you a deal on trade which would alleviate the 2 month wait and them losing value of the temp car.

morganb

Car is in Melbourne at Airport Benz. They seem to have a fairly large service division. They had to order cam holders tp pull the heads.

No loan car so I have been racking up the KM's on my other cars. I was not offered or asked for a trade. One issue against me in this is I bought the car privately so my only dealings with the MB has been via the service network.

morganb

Agree 100%, but it also could have been much worse

C63sydney

Ahhh ok so I am guessing you didn't have the extended road care plan that they offer after warranty runs out?

BTW Nice collection of cars its always surprising to see someone with such a wide selection of different cars. Has this tarnished your AMG enthusiasm?

If possible can you give some explanation as to what happened prior to the car breaking?

Many Thanks