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Lifter chatter on hot restarts, anyone else???

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Lifter chatter on hot restarts, anyone else???

 
Old 07-30-2012, 08:11 PM
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Lifter chatter on hot restarts, anyone else???

I am getting loud lifter chatter on HOT restarts. Lifters must be bleeding down over 30-45mins and when the car is re-started, after 2-4 seconds they pump up and the engine is silent.

Its only been doing this for the last while now, has anyone else noticed this at all???

Cars at the dealer, they are trying to say a few seconds of noise is normal lol.

Every vehicle I have ever had, has hydraulic lifters and they make zero noise at all.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:19 PM
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Ive been noticing noise like lifter chatter coming from my M156. I will record audio and let you hear what I'm talking about.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:45 PM
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Yep.... Happened yesterday and it was loud. Took over two minutes to quite down. Hot restart, level ground, oil level to spec.

Wife's car. No mods. All stock and under warranty.

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Old 08-01-2012, 01:09 AM
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Dealer told me that a few seconds of lifter noise is normal. They also pretty much told me to go fist myself and took pics of all my mods, wrote them into the report, listing them all as voiding warranties, blah blah blah.

I do my own services, yet they wrote in the report that services not recorded, etc. Oil is black and smelled burnt, although I change it every 6000km which is 9000km before they would suggest changing it.


They also said my car looks like its been raced and set up for racing. They said these cars are not race cars and not designed for that. Its obvious I have driven it hard, blah blah.

My reply, if these aren't designed for the race track, than when I bought it, why did they give me a free day at the track with the whole AMG line up??? Weird!

I asked if a new car off the lot will make lifter noise, which SA replied, some do some don't, its normal to hear a noisy M156, blah blah.

Basically as soon as these guys see mods, they blame everything on the mods. Would have been interesting to bring the car in there stock and see what happens.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:53 AM
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So I got my tech friend to check the m156 tappet part numbe and there is a note on the part number that says they are not to be used anymore. It forwards you to the m159 tappets and says to use the new ones from the SLS now. That tells me Mb has recognized there is a problem with bleed down on the original tappets.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:19 PM
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Boom!

Good investigation Merc, love when forum members go out and get things done and then actually post their findings.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
Dealer told me that a few seconds of lifter noise is normal. They also pretty much told me to go fist myself and took pics of all my mods, wrote them into the report, listing them all as voiding warranties, blah blah blah.

I do my own services, yet they wrote in the report that services not recorded, etc. Oil is black and smelled burnt, although I change it every 6000km which is 9000km before they would suggest changing it.


They also said my car looks like its been raced and set up for racing. They said these cars are not race cars and not designed for that. Its obvious I have driven it hard, blah blah.

My reply, if these aren't designed for the race track, than when I bought it, why did they give me a free day at the track with the whole AMG line up??? Weird!

I asked if a new car off the lot will make lifter noise, which SA replied, some do some don't, its normal to hear a noisy M156, blah blah.

Basically as soon as these guys see mods, they blame everything on the mods. Would have been interesting to bring the car in there stock and see what happens.
Good write up...wasn't there some kind of lawsuit with either this car or another where the member tracked and raced it and the automanufacturer said it wasn't meant for that, yet they showed all the advertising with smoke and burnouts and the car being pushed to its limits, and they won?? Maybe I am thinking of the C63 commercial with the smoke and the marketing gimmicks MB was trying to pull...

In any case, screw these dealerships that tattle-tale on peoples cars that are modded...
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:47 PM
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I have the old part number: A 156 050 00 25

The new tappets which are used in the m159 and perhaps newer c63s (I haven't confirmed) the old part number says not to use it and directs you to the revised one.

New part number: A 156 050 02 25.


Now the battle begins to have them replaced as mine are obviously noisy and probably why they have a revision.

If anyone has some tips or info regarding warranty claims when mods are involved, please chime in.
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:06 PM
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It was the Magnuson-Moss Act of 75'

http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by VividRacing View Post
It was the Magnuson-Moss Act of 75'

http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm
Yes, that is one basis to protect consumer rights. But, that alone does nothing at all.

You still have to sue the manufacturer/dealer. That can cost a lot of money. And you may lose. This type of lawsuit would involve the need for expert witness testimony. That would be thousands of dollars. Probably more than 10,000 at the minimum. Maybe a lawyer would take this case on contingency, maybe not I would bet, probably not. If not, the consumer has to pay for legal fees with no guarantees of victory.

I'm sorry to respond like this, but it bothers me when people throw around the Magnuson-Moss act like it's some big shield of consumer protection. When in reality it can be -- depending on the facts of the case -- but it takes a lot of money to litigate breach of warranty/contract cases.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
Dealer told me that a few seconds of lifter noise is normal. They also pretty much told me to go fist myself and took pics of all my mods, wrote them into the report, listing them all as voiding warranties, blah blah blah.

I do my own services, yet they wrote in the report that services not recorded, etc. Oil is black and smelled burnt, although I change it every 6000km which is 9000km before they would suggest changing it.


They also said my car looks like its been raced and set up for racing. They said these cars are not race cars and not designed for that. Its obvious I have driven it hard, blah blah.

My reply, if these aren't designed for the race track, than when I bought it, why did they give me a free day at the track with the whole AMG line up??? Weird!

I asked if a new car off the lot will make lifter noise, which SA replied, some do some don't, its normal to hear a noisy M156, blah blah.

Basically as soon as these guys see mods, they blame everything on the mods. Would have been interesting to bring the car in there stock and see what happens.
Sorry to hear about your experience. It sucks to hear. The dealers aren't much better even when you are stock.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig View Post
Yes, that is one basis to protect consumer rights. But, that alone does nothing at all.

You still have to sue the manufacturer/dealer. That can cost a lot of money. And you may lose. This type of lawsuit would involve the need for expert witness testimony. That would be thousands of dollars. Probably more than 10,000 at the minimum. Maybe a lawyer would take this case on contingency, maybe not I would bet, probably not. If not, the consumer has to pay for legal fees with no guarantees of victory.

I'm sorry to respond like this, but it bothers me when people throw around the Magnuson-Moss act like it's some big shield of consumer protection. When in reality it can be -- depending on the facts of the case -- but it takes a lot of money to litigate breach of warranty/contract cases.
Exactly, it costs more then it would be worth most of the time. Someone had asked about what act it was so I posted it up.

Last edited by VividRacing; 08-01-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by VividRacing View Post
Exactly, it costs more then it would be worth most of the time. Someone had asked about what act it was so I posted it up.
I understand now. Sorry if it seemed like I was responding harshly.

Still, sometimes it's a great thing to fight for your rights. In this type of case, if there was some kind of engine failure, it would be too difficult -- IMO -- to prove the issue was caused by the manufacturer, not the aftermarket parts. Really an uphill battle for Merc in this case, unfortunately.
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig View Post
I understand now. Sorry if it seemed like I was responding harshly.

Still, sometimes it's a great thing to fight for your rights. In this type of case, if there was some kind of engine failure, it would be too difficult -- IMO -- to prove the issue was caused by the manufacturer, not the aftermarket parts. Really an uphill battle for Merc in this case, unfortunately.
Yeah, even if you break even in the end, it's satisfying to know that you won haha

especially in a situation like this where the lifters are a known issue even on stock cars.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:35 PM
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I am going back into the dealer next week to speak with management. Ill report back what happens.

Its a slap in the face from this dealer as I have told lots of guys that I meet to go there and to stay away from the other dealer for exactly this reason. Ive been a loyal customer and now that I have a few mods they are trying to wipe their hands clean of me.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
I am going back into the dealer next week to speak with management. Ill report back what happens.

Its a slap in the face from this dealer as I have told lots of guys that I meet to go there and to stay away from the other dealer for exactly this reason. Ive been a loyal customer and now that I have a few mods they are trying to wipe their hands clean of me.
Hi from Cowtown.
Just curious;
-how many km on your car now?
-which brand and weight of oil are you using?
-does it only seem to happen when you have run hard or on a very hot day in the summer? In other words when the oils about as thinned out as it can be.
-which dealer are you going to? DM or WBR? Maybe go talk to DM himself if you can, as an old racer and very mechanically knowledgable he may be more helpful. (If hes still around up there, I have not been into his dealership in about 14-15 years)

Anyway, my 09 (51,000 km) does this once every 6 months or so after a really hot run but it doesn't concern me at all.
Also, the MB's owned by our other family members also do this occasionally and have for years so its nothing new. But, with the family's cars it takes several months of not being run for a few compensators to bleed down. One S-class we had did this from new. Just a bit surprising that MB engines have this quirk.

The fact it happens after such a short period of time after shutdown with your car is a bit offputting.
For the summer why not try going up a notch in viscosity and see if that helps.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:41 AM
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The lifter (tappet) issue is covered under the same service bulletin regarding the head bolt issue. Check you engine number against the info on the head bold sticky to see if your engine is effected. The replacement lifters are from the M159 motor. If you mod your drive train do not expect MBZ to honor the warranty.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:25 PM
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Been hearing a lot about lifter noise, what exactly is that? What does it sound like?

I have intermittent vibration noise at idle.. Is that the lifter?
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:45 PM
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Lifters make a tapping sound (hence the name tappets). They will cause the engine to idle rough which result in vibration
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Multispeed View Post
Hi from Cowtown.
Just curious;
-how many km on your car now?
-which brand and weight of oil are you using?
-does it only seem to happen when you have run hard or on a very hot day in the summer? In other words when the oils about as thinned out as it can be.
-which dealer are you going to? DM or WBR? Maybe go talk to DM himself if you can, as an old racer and very mechanically knowledgable he may be more helpful. (If hes still around up there, I have not been into his dealership in about 14-15 years)

Anyway, my 09 (51,000 km) does this once every 6 months or so after a really hot run but it doesn't concern me at all.
Also, the MB's owned by our other family members also do this occasionally and have for years so its nothing new. But, with the family's cars it takes several months of not being run for a few compensators to bleed down. One S-class we had did this from new. Just a bit surprising that MB engines have this quirk.

The fact it happens after such a short period of time after shutdown with your car is a bit offputting.
For the summer why not try going up a notch in viscosity and see if that helps.
I am using M1 5w40.

Yes it only happens when the car is heat soaked on a hot sunny day. Leave the car for a few hours in the sun, start it back up and the lifter chatter for a few seconds then pump back up...The only other time it does this is when I park it over winter and start it in spring, she will chatter for a min or more almost, if I remember correctly.

Its not the end of the world, but it shouldn't be happening. Hydraulic lifters have been around for a long time. MB having a new part for them, tells me their are acknowledging the problem and replacing them.

Now only if I can get the brain dead retard Service Adviser who thinks that because you have headers that lifter noise is normal on start up to give his head a shake.

I forgot to mention, I have 62K km now. Id replace them myself, but at 31 bucks a piece x 32valves that 1000 bucks for lifters for F sakes.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:52 AM
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"Well you see, with aftermarket headers the additional heat soak causes the lifters to bleed out faster because the oil is thinning in the head", blah blah blah dealer banter.

There's no harm in bugging them if they already said no haha whats the worst they could do? Take away the warranty from your next Merc you haven't purchased yet?!?!
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:12 AM
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By any longshot of a chance, does anyone know the dimensions (diameter and height) of M156/M159 tappets?
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:20 AM
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I just happen to have 32 SLS lifters in the garage. I'll measure one.
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:23 AM
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Merc63, seeing that you change oil at 6000km, have you sent a sample to an oil tester to see if infact there is some benefit left in the oil or has it been depleted. With your set-up you must be seeing higher temps internally than a stock 63 motor( they do run hot) depending on usage and throttle depression, LOL. Now do not flame me but could it be possible that you need to either upgrade the oil cooler system or even change out the oil sooner than you do now? What temps do you see when running? A few miles of easy driving should reduce the oil temp before shutdown. Personally Mobil1 0-40 and 5w-40 seem light for this application when driven hard, although for a daily driver with light loading is seems to work sufficiently to give some longevity to the engine.
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:33 AM
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At some point, as a result of the service bulletin, did MB/AMG make the switch over to M159 tappets for purposes of M156 engine construction/manufacture?

If so, when did this occur?

Thanks.
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