Trackday problem
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What!? I go to the track about once a month and don't see any Audi's, M3's, or CTV's going into limp mode. I was a driving instructor for 5 years and rode in many cars that never went into limp mode.
I've done numerous track days in my Evo which generates more heat than my C63 and it NEVER went into limp mode. And by heat, I mean my exhaust manifold was ****ING GLOWING RED.
To make excuses that these are not track cars is a little crazy. Any car should be able to handle a 20 minute sprint, especially on street tires.. If the car is getting too hot with oil or water, it is a design problem with the car.
I've done numerous track days in my Evo which generates more heat than my C63 and it NEVER went into limp mode. And by heat, I mean my exhaust manifold was ****ING GLOWING RED.
To make excuses that these are not track cars is a little crazy. Any car should be able to handle a 20 minute sprint, especially on street tires.. If the car is getting too hot with oil or water, it is a design problem with the car.
You were a driving instructor and never saw any of those cars go into limp mode? Were you paying attention at all? Go to every forum for every car mentioned and do a search "Limp mode" and you will find examples for every one for one reason or another. The C63 is the tranny. Not only the MCT either but it seems to happen more often with the MCT from what I have read. I guess it happens way more often with the C63 overall though than the other cars mentioned. I can see why people would be upset.
Again though, its not a track car. To think the C63 with its leather seats and its AC and sunroof is a track car is silly. You were a driving instructor and you consider a 2 ton luxury sedan a track car?
Sorry.. gotta disagree with you guys here. Just install the cooler and enjoy your car at the track. Waiting for MB to fix it and your going to be waiting a long time.
Last edited by propain; Sep 29, 2012 at 02:23 PM.
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2009 C63, 2000 ML 430, 1994 Del Sol Vtec
You were a driving instructor and never saw any of those cars go into limp mode? Were you paying attention at all? Go to every forum for every car mentioned and do a search "Limp mode" and you will find examples for every one for one reason or another. The C63 is the tranny. Not only the MCT either but it seems to happen more often with the MCT from what I have read. I guess it happens way more often with the C63 overall though than the other cars mentioned. I can see why people would be upset.
Again though, its not a track car. To think the C63 with its leather seats and its AC and sunroof is a track car is silly. You were a driving instructor and you consider a 2 ton luxury sedan a track car?
Sorry.. gotta disagree with you guys here. Just install the cooler and enjoy your car at the track. Waiting for MB to fix it and your going to be waiting a long time.
Again though, its not a track car. To think the C63 with its leather seats and its AC and sunroof is a track car is silly. You were a driving instructor and you consider a 2 ton luxury sedan a track car?
Sorry.. gotta disagree with you guys here. Just install the cooler and enjoy your car at the track. Waiting for MB to fix it and your going to be waiting a long time.
Yes, I was an instructor, yes I was paying attention, no they didn't go into limp mode. Sorry I can't confirm your 3rd hand internet stories of such failures. Instead I was riding passenger in these cars.
Not to mention we've put Smart cars, priuses, Ford F250 diesels and your run of the mill enterprise rent-a-car's on track. The only issue I saw with either of these was melting the hubcaps off the enterprise rental (nissan sentra i believe).
Just because you take a car onto the race track for an HPDE does not make it a "track car".
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C63 amg
There is a distinct difference between the MCT cars and the previous. My 2009 ran many laps in Florida and Georgia with only one limp mode occurrence. Before and after the vented hood, I would typically have oil temps in the high 260's while water remained 199. Limp mode occurred at 282 the one time I had the issue and that was an August session mid day at Sebring. The problems being described lately are much worse than anything I ever experienced.
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2012 C63 coupe
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M156 and LS7
I had both problem before, once for each, but in different days and different tracks, way more than 3-5 laps as some members experienced, in fact 15-20 mins, no one think it is a track car, (however on the same hot day, I did see another C6-Z06 went into engine limp mode due to hot oil temp), but It is at least a AMG, MB should engineering it more, it should do a little more than just 5 laps
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Did I call it a track car? No.
Yes, I was an instructor, yes I was paying attention, no they didn't go into limp mode. Sorry I can't confirm your 3rd hand internet stories of such failures. Instead I was riding passenger in these cars.
Not to mention we've put Smart cars, priuses, Ford F250 diesels and your run of the mill enterprise rent-a-car's on track. The only issue I saw with either of these was melting the hubcaps off the enterprise rental (nissan sentra i believe).
Just because you take a car onto the race track for an HPDE does not make it a "track car".
Yes, I was an instructor, yes I was paying attention, no they didn't go into limp mode. Sorry I can't confirm your 3rd hand internet stories of such failures. Instead I was riding passenger in these cars.
Not to mention we've put Smart cars, priuses, Ford F250 diesels and your run of the mill enterprise rent-a-car's on track. The only issue I saw with either of these was melting the hubcaps off the enterprise rental (nissan sentra i believe).
Just because you take a car onto the race track for an HPDE does not make it a "track car".
Your words. Yes, I believe you did call them track cars. Maybe you misspoke.
Again, if you think a 4 door 2 ton luxury sedan is a track car tell me what school you instructed in so I can avoid it.
Again, all the cars you mentioned go into limp mode. Some quicker than others and most due to environmental conditions. I agree the C63 is the worst of the lot, but again, none of these are track cars. They are track INSPIRED cars. I am excluding the Porsche of course.
Last edited by propain; Oct 4, 2012 at 07:45 PM.
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C63 amg
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2009 C63 AMG
The local Alfa club runs 15 minute sessions, as apposed to 20-30 minutes with the local Porsche and BMW clubs. I guess we may have drive our C63s at the Alfa club events.
My z06 and M3 have never gone into limp home mode at the track. My z06 has exceeded the trans temp warning level after 20 minutes of track time but I have since added coolers. I don't recall any cars going into limp home mode at the track. I have seen blow oil or coolant or lose their brakes, but no limp home mode. However, the ambient temp in the Northwest is cooler than the rest of the country in the summer.
I have a ML63 and a C63 and both seem to operate at the same oil temp with normal driving. When I pop the hood after a long drive it seems the C is rejecting more heat that the ML. The ML's engine compartment seems to vent better. Improving the engine compartment venting of the C may mitigate the high temps. Maybe the Cs with long tube headers and the under-tray panels removed are experiencing lower temps at the track.
09 c63
07 ml63
02 m3
01 z06
My z06 and M3 have never gone into limp home mode at the track. My z06 has exceeded the trans temp warning level after 20 minutes of track time but I have since added coolers. I don't recall any cars going into limp home mode at the track. I have seen blow oil or coolant or lose their brakes, but no limp home mode. However, the ambient temp in the Northwest is cooler than the rest of the country in the summer.
I have a ML63 and a C63 and both seem to operate at the same oil temp with normal driving. When I pop the hood after a long drive it seems the C is rejecting more heat that the ML. The ML's engine compartment seems to vent better. Improving the engine compartment venting of the C may mitigate the high temps. Maybe the Cs with long tube headers and the under-tray panels removed are experiencing lower temps at the track.
09 c63
07 ml63
02 m3
01 z06
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2009 C63, 2000 ML 430, 1994 Del Sol Vtec
Again, if you think a 4 door 2 ton luxury sedan is a track car tell me what school you instructed in so I can avoid it.
Again, all the cars you mentioned go into limp mode. Some quicker than others and most due to environmental conditions. I agree the C63 is the worst of the lot, but again, none of these are track cars. They are track INSPIRED cars. I am excluding the Porsche of course.
Either way, you find this acceptable most do not. Can't convince you otherwise..
cheers
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C63 AMG
Propain is the only poster I've ever put on "ignore." He's not happy unless he's arguing vs. just posting, or just plain picking a fight. Of course now he's eating unlimited crow in the ecampbell/Weitec issue.
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Trust me my feeling for him is very mutual. I don't choose to ignore anyone like a little girl however, I just deal with it. The sad part on this forum is unless you agree with the masses (Which apparently think the C63 is a track car) you are argumentative. Hopefully this clown keeps me on ignore.
There is no eating crow you mental midget. I always asked for results and finally... I think 2 years later and probably 300K dollars later we are getting them. Sorry for asking for results for the $$ spent. When it runs 9's, which I am sure it will there will be some crow to feast on. Sadly though the amount of money spent to get to 9's makes the application hardly economically viable for the average enthusiast. A NA setup would seem to still be the way to go.
The funny part is he says I am eating crow in the Weistec thread yet he says he has me on ignore and no one has quoted anything I have said remotely eating crow in that thread... hmmmmm... So I guess... Hi Bhamg! So much for being on ignore.
Last edited by propain; Oct 5, 2012 at 07:51 PM.
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I think you misunderstood or I misspoke, either way a miscommunication.
I was an HPDE instructor. An HPDE is where you bring your street car and bring it on the track. Only requirement is the car is safe to drive on the road (passing simple inspections) and you have a Snell 2005+ rated helmet and a drivers license. Every HPDE program I'm aware of is run this way. You better avoid HPDE's all together and stick to the drag strip.
100+ degree ambient temp at Thunderhill. :\
Either way, you find this acceptable most do not. Can't convince you otherwise..
cheers
I was an HPDE instructor. An HPDE is where you bring your street car and bring it on the track. Only requirement is the car is safe to drive on the road (passing simple inspections) and you have a Snell 2005+ rated helmet and a drivers license. Every HPDE program I'm aware of is run this way. You better avoid HPDE's all together and stick to the drag strip.
100+ degree ambient temp at Thunderhill. :\
Either way, you find this acceptable most do not. Can't convince you otherwise..
cheers
Cheers
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Trust me my feeling for him is very mutual. I don't choose to ignore anyone like a little girl however, I just deal with it. The sad part on this forum is unless you agree with the masses (Which apparently think the C63 is a track car) you are argumentative. Hopefully this clown keeps me on ignore.
There is no eating crow you mental midget. I always asked for results and finally... I think 2 years later and probably 300K dollars later we are getting them. Sorry for asking for results for the $$ spent. When it runs 9's, which I am sure it will there will be some crow to feast on. Sadly though the amount of money spent to get to 9's makes the application hardly economically viable for the average enthusiast. A NA setup would seem to still be the way to go.
The funny part is he says I am eating crow in the Weistec thread yet he says he has me on ignore and no one has quoted anything I have said remotely eating crow in that thread... hmmmmm... So I guess... Hi Bhamg! So much for being on ignore.
There is no eating crow you mental midget. I always asked for results and finally... I think 2 years later and probably 300K dollars later we are getting them. Sorry for asking for results for the $$ spent. When it runs 9's, which I am sure it will there will be some crow to feast on. Sadly though the amount of money spent to get to 9's makes the application hardly economically viable for the average enthusiast. A NA setup would seem to still be the way to go.
The funny part is he says I am eating crow in the Weistec thread yet he says he has me on ignore and no one has quoted anything I have said remotely eating crow in that thread... hmmmmm... So I guess... Hi Bhamg! So much for being on ignore.
Unfortunately/Fortunately the C63 BS is the only real track car. From the advertising that MB did, it never said that the C63 is explicitly or clearly a track car at all...if anything, it said it picks up advancements from official DTM or BS track cars. The ads states, for the driver that needs an increase in their heart rates, increase in pulse. For the driver that demands more performance...close to a bonified track car but no actual cigar...
It tells you that it is a luxury 4 door sedan that has more power/torque and racing body lines to inspire a sporty sedan...closer to being an official track car. Basically its affordable for the masses. Unlike the BS and the GT3 series.
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+1
Unfortunately/Fortunately the C63 BS is the only real track car. From the advertising that MB did, it never said that the C63 is explicitly or clearly a track car at all...if anything, it said it picks up advancements from official DTM or BS track cars. The ads states, for the driver that needs an increase in their heart rates, increase in pulse. For the driver that demands more performance...close to a bonified track car but no actual cigar...
It tells you that it is a luxury 4 door sedan that has more power/torque and racing body lines to inspire a sporty sedan...closer to being an official track car. Basically its affordable for the masses. Unlike the BS and the GT3 series.
Unfortunately/Fortunately the C63 BS is the only real track car. From the advertising that MB did, it never said that the C63 is explicitly or clearly a track car at all...if anything, it said it picks up advancements from official DTM or BS track cars. The ads states, for the driver that needs an increase in their heart rates, increase in pulse. For the driver that demands more performance...close to a bonified track car but no actual cigar...
It tells you that it is a luxury 4 door sedan that has more power/torque and racing body lines to inspire a sporty sedan...closer to being an official track car. Basically its affordable for the masses. Unlike the BS and the GT3 series.
I know the C63 is not a real "track" car and most everyone does. That is not the issue. The issue, in my mind, is that the car can't handle simple high performance driving event days when it is too hot out. The same days where you see cars from all manufacturers doing just fine. Many of those cars are "lesser" cars performance wise than the C63 and are not track cars either but they can handle a HPDE weekend.
We are not expecting a race car. We aren't expecting a track only car either. We aren't expecting a GT3/BS level car. We ARE expecting a car that can handle a little lapping just like all of its competitors (M3, RS4, 911, Cayman, CTS-V) can handle. MB builds the car with that competition in mind and those cars and much lesser cars handle HPDEs without issue.
Also, don't tell me that MB doesn't market the C63 as track "oriented" cars. All AMGs are marketed that way. MB goes so far as flying prospective buyers, all expense paid, to tracks around North America to experience AMG cars on the track. They are absolutely pushing the car's ability to perform at that level. They are not "track" cars but it is not OK that they can't handle a BMW driving school weekend unlike M3s, RS4s, Caymans, Mazda 3s, BMW 335s, VW GLI, old Z3, Cobalt SS, etc.
You may not have acquired the C63 to ever go to the track, but many people who buy them do enjoy the occasional driving school or driving event weekend. It's a shame as the C63 is a capable car performance wise and in all respects, other than heat management, is as capable as the M3, etc on a track.
Last edited by gthal; Oct 6, 2012 at 06:33 AM.
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Porsche 911 Turbo S 2014! E63S 14, Audi S8 13, CLS63 12, E550 12, C63 09, all tuned
Something must be off with the MCT tranny set up. My 2009 C63 Renntech stage 3 , no additional coolers, runs fine at the track. Only problem I have had is with brake fade. I am working on upgrading that now.
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Back on topic, MB should not advertise or market this car as a performance vehicle, on a track, if it can't follow through. It has nothing to do with definitions of track cars or whatever else....given how this car is marketed and sold (meaning, go ask your dealer point blank if the car is capable of doing a few laps and see what they say) it should be able to complete laps on a track.
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I like how you roll man, in person we would get along great. But dude you are sick...like seriously, your approach to this whole messageboard thing is twisted.
Back on topic, MB should not advertise or market this car as a performance vehicle, on a track, if it can't follow through. It has nothing to do with definitions of track cars or whatever else....given how this car is marketed and sold (meaning, go ask your dealer point blank if the car is capable of doing a few laps and see what they say) it should be able to complete laps on a track.
Back on topic, MB should not advertise or market this car as a performance vehicle, on a track, if it can't follow through. It has nothing to do with definitions of track cars or whatever else....given how this car is marketed and sold (meaning, go ask your dealer point blank if the car is capable of doing a few laps and see what they say) it should be able to complete laps on a track.
I tend to agree with him. They got their act together with the C63 BS and the '12-'13 is just a disaster with the issues being presented. Namely the track driving overheating. I mean common...not even able to do 2 laps? Total incompetence on behalf of MB as far as the R&D and testing phases...they just had to rush to get the product out their because they were on a advertising roll....
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Porsche 911 Turbo S 2014! E63S 14, Audi S8 13, CLS63 12, E550 12, C63 09, all tuned
Has anyone decide what cause the C63 to go into limp mode. Was it actually oil temp? If so, why so hot? Is this normal? I will find out Monday if the cooling system is different on C63 Black.
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Ok, went back and tallied up how many track sessions I did with my 2009. It came out to 23 track days, four sessions per day (unless the tires corded) 20 minutes per session. That comes out to aproximately 31 track hours with only one session affected by limp mode which was a 102 degree day at Sebring. Mind you that the car was on DOT slicks, DTC70 pads, exceeded 150 mph nearly every lap and ran with/past plenty of the aforementioned "track cars". The issue is definately a 2012+ problem that may or may not be directly related to MCT or ESP. I ran ESP off at all times, left the tranny in sport when I was "engaged" and played with M mode with open track.
Now regarding the sideline conversation, none of the production street cars mentioned before are truly considered "track cars". Track worthy, I agree and some more than others, but the primary purpose still remains getting you to and from a destination. For some of you single guys I realize there is another purpose altogether. Certain cars are much more suited for temporary duty at the track and can be converted to 100% track specific, but most of GT3/GT3RS owners I know that track their cars on a regular basis wish for a Cup car.
If you follow then the following question is easy:
Which of the two is a "track car" and are you surprised that it is faster than the other with 350 less horsepower?
Now regarding the sideline conversation, none of the production street cars mentioned before are truly considered "track cars". Track worthy, I agree and some more than others, but the primary purpose still remains getting you to and from a destination. For some of you single guys I realize there is another purpose altogether. Certain cars are much more suited for temporary duty at the track and can be converted to 100% track specific, but most of GT3/GT3RS owners I know that track their cars on a regular basis wish for a Cup car.
If you follow then the following question is easy:
Which of the two is a "track car" and are you surprised that it is faster than the other with 350 less horsepower?
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You are making excuses for MB.
I know the C63 is not a real "track" car and most everyone does. That is not the issue. The issue, in my mind, is that the car can't handle simple high performance driving event days when it is too hot out. The same days where you see cars from all manufacturers doing just fine. Many of those cars are "lesser" cars performance wise than the C63 and are not track cars either but they can handle a HPDE weekend.
We are not expecting a race car. We aren't expecting a track only car either. We aren't expecting a GT3/BS level car. We ARE expecting a car that can handle a little lapping just like all of its competitors (M3, RS4, 911, Cayman, CTS-V) can handle. MB builds the car with that competition in mind and those cars and much lesser cars handle HPDEs without issue.
Also, don't tell me that MB doesn't market the C63 as track "oriented" cars. All AMGs are marketed that way. MB goes so far as flying prospective buyers, all expense paid, to tracks around North America to experience AMG cars on the track. They are absolutely pushing the car's ability to perform at that level. They are not "track" cars but it is not OK that they can't handle a BMW driving school weekend unlike M3s, RS4s, Caymans, Mazda 3s, BMW 335s, VW GLI, old Z3, Cobalt SS, etc.
You may not have acquired the C63 to ever go to the track, but many people who buy them do enjoy the occasional driving school or driving event weekend. It's a shame as the C63 is a capable car performance wise and in all respects, other than heat management, is as capable as the M3, etc on a track.
I know the C63 is not a real "track" car and most everyone does. That is not the issue. The issue, in my mind, is that the car can't handle simple high performance driving event days when it is too hot out. The same days where you see cars from all manufacturers doing just fine. Many of those cars are "lesser" cars performance wise than the C63 and are not track cars either but they can handle a HPDE weekend.
We are not expecting a race car. We aren't expecting a track only car either. We aren't expecting a GT3/BS level car. We ARE expecting a car that can handle a little lapping just like all of its competitors (M3, RS4, 911, Cayman, CTS-V) can handle. MB builds the car with that competition in mind and those cars and much lesser cars handle HPDEs without issue.
Also, don't tell me that MB doesn't market the C63 as track "oriented" cars. All AMGs are marketed that way. MB goes so far as flying prospective buyers, all expense paid, to tracks around North America to experience AMG cars on the track. They are absolutely pushing the car's ability to perform at that level. They are not "track" cars but it is not OK that they can't handle a BMW driving school weekend unlike M3s, RS4s, Caymans, Mazda 3s, BMW 335s, VW GLI, old Z3, Cobalt SS, etc.
You may not have acquired the C63 to ever go to the track, but many people who buy them do enjoy the occasional driving school or driving event weekend. It's a shame as the C63 is a capable car performance wise and in all respects, other than heat management, is as capable as the M3, etc on a track.
This is a good post and brings up many points. The main point I believe is that MB owners feel cheated that the C63 cant perform as well as the M3 and others on the road course. I would honestly like to test more of this to see if its as bad as some say under normal conditions. In really warms temps it seems the C63 suffers more than others and I guess that would be a design flaw in some respects as others in its class don't suffer as much or as quickly.
MB makes up for it by out performing all of those cars mentioned except the CTSV (Which would suffer from heak soak after a few laps anyhow) in straight line performance. If you want a car that's better for the track, buy those others, if you want a car that outperforms them on the street and the drag strip the C63 is for you.
I will say this though as to it being sold as a track car or marketed as such. MB knows 95% of owners who buy the C63 will never see a road course. Probably the #1 reason is they say it can do it but if you do and it breaks on the road course your warranty wont hold up. That doesn't leave much confidence for anyone to do it.
I think many of you guys are just getting caught up in the marketing and the sales pitch however. Dad's and others who wish to road course the car and take it seriously have made the modifications so it can do it. I suggests others ignore the marketing and sales pitch of the C63 and make the modifications if they are serious about road coursing the C63.
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Why is it twisted???!!! Just because he doesn't agree with you or others or the other bull5hit that is spewed you call him sick? He is commenting on personal experience and HIS opinion of what he thinks the car is capable of doing based on his ownership of one. It would be more lame if he just played a fan boy and gave in to all the love towards MB as a brand and agreed with everyone. There are true points a lot of people are making. As for the C63 being a TRACK CAR, that is what is being debated in a respectful manner here with opposing opinions, thoughts, and experiences.
I tend to agree with him. They got their act together with the C63 BS and the '12-'13 is just a disaster with the issues being presented. Namely the track driving overheating. I mean common...not even able to do 2 laps? Total incompetence on behalf of MB as far as the R&D and testing phases...they just had to rush to get the product out their because they were on a advertising roll....
I tend to agree with him. They got their act together with the C63 BS and the '12-'13 is just a disaster with the issues being presented. Namely the track driving overheating. I mean common...not even able to do 2 laps? Total incompetence on behalf of MB as far as the R&D and testing phases...they just had to rush to get the product out their because they were on a advertising roll....
Some people just cant deal with me on here. I guess I can come off as too abrasive for their taste. I just don't agree with the masses on this subject and many others and that is a big no no around here it seems. Some people let brand loyalty or fanboyism cloud their judgement and they throw common sense out the window.
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Yes
Why is it twisted???!!! Just because he doesn't agree with you or others or the other bull5hit that is spewed you call him sick? He is commenting on personal experience and HIS opinion of what he thinks the car is capable of doing based on his ownership of one. It would be more lame if he just played a fan boy and gave in to all the love towards MB as a brand and agreed with everyone. There are true points a lot of people are making. As for the C63 being a TRACK CAR, that is what is being debated in a respectful manner here with opposing opinions, thoughts, and experiences.
I tend to agree with him. They got their act together with the C63 BS and the '12-'13 is just a disaster with the issues being presented. Namely the track driving overheating. I mean common...not even able to do 2 laps? Total incompetence on behalf of MB as far as the R&D and testing phases...they just had to rush to get the product out their because they were on a advertising roll....
I tend to agree with him. They got their act together with the C63 BS and the '12-'13 is just a disaster with the issues being presented. Namely the track driving overheating. I mean common...not even able to do 2 laps? Total incompetence on behalf of MB as far as the R&D and testing phases...they just had to rush to get the product out their because they were on a advertising roll....
b) we completely agree - read my post. unacceptable from MB.
