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Trackday problem

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Old 09-10-2012, 05:10 AM
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C63 AMG Coupe
Trackday problem

I have a 2012 MY C63 Coupe. Pretty standard car without performance pack for example.

Took it on track at the weekend - not really pushing that hard as far as I am concerned and it lasted maximum 3 laps each session before refusing to accelerate or change gear. Half a lap at slow speed and it recovered but not properly.

Now after reading forums I avoided 'M' and used both S and S+ but it made no difference.

Can anybody suggest what is causing this and what maybe can be upgraded / replaced ? I dont want to take it on track every week but a couple of times a year so prefer this not to happen !
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:55 AM
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It's normal. Very difficult to repeatedly lap this car and not have it overheat, and go into limp mode. You would need to upgrade your oil coolers, diff coolers, etc.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:10 AM
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That seems a little weak from MB's side. It's an AMG - surely it can do a bit better than that ? How do the journalists manage to lap them power sliding round corner after corner ? Or do they just do 2 laps, then in ?

D
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:12 AM
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Yes... Well known issue. Shame on MB.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:27 AM
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The pre 2012 C63 doesn't have this issue.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:35 AM
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What is different pre-2012 ? Surely the transmission is more resilient ?
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:29 AM
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I had no problems lapping. We would only go out for about 10mims at a time though.

I think you guys are running it too hard in high ambient temps.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:31 AM
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The transmission is different. I had an MB tech who said the new tranny will have more issues with more mileage racked on it as well. He said that a lot of people who traded in their preface lift for new ones are complaining about track performances.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:33 AM
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It suffers from heat soak - Any big motor does. High Ambient temperature doesn't help either.

A well ventilated hood - plus a upgraded coolers are just part of the solution.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:46 AM
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My issue wasn't transmission related. The engine got too hot and went into limp mode. Oil temp was too high. This would be an issue pre facelift as this was not due to anything changed with the facelift. On cooler days or shorter sessions, this likely would be no issue.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:50 AM
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But outside temp was no more than 24-25 deg c on Saturday where I was so cannot see ambient temperature as an issue.

D
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:12 AM
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This is probably why we have to stop every 2 laps at the AMG events... still not acceptable for this type of cars. My friend SLS (1stamg) doesn't have that problem at the track from what I heard.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:44 AM
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I wont be surprised if the AMG academy routine was designed in that fashion...
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:55 AM
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Got to be honest, I am not really in the mood to just accept 'they all do that sir' as an excuse.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:55 AM
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so let me get this straight, sls doesn't have this and the c63 bs right? do the pre face lift c63's have this problem or not? obviously this problem is a huge shame on amg srry
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:41 PM
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When you track the car try removing the front grill frirst. Thats the simplest.

If you are going to be a track rat then replace the front bumper with a more open style like the Revozport or others with a larger opening.

The BS oil and tranny coolers are larger and easily replace the stock coolers as well. I just replaced both the tranny and oil coolers and they are significantly larger.

Heat IS the enemy. not sure about the new 2012 models but the heat issues can be resolved in the earlier 2008-2011 models. Good luck and be safe!
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:05 PM
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Hmmm, so that leads me to two quick questions then. One, are the oil and tranny coolers from the BS a straight bolt-on in the C63 (non BS)? IE, no cutting, welding or body-work required to drop them in?

And two....any likely sources besides MB to order the Black Series oil and tranny coolers?

Anybody have any part numbers that I could get? Given the extent I expect to be tracking this car, I'd imagine that will be one of the first things I try to get done.



Thanks,



Patrick
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:21 AM
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When describing my problem with the car I said 'limp mode' but in reality all that happened was it stuck at high revs in a lowish gear and would change. I have now talked with a friend in California who has a C63 and on the road had this problem. The dealer did a software reboot and although it already had the latest gearbox software it apparently has made a difference.

I will talk to my dealer today.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:38 AM
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Yes
Originally Posted by dtriggs View Post
Got to be honest, I am not really in the mood to just accept 'they all do that sir' as an excuse.
You are right. This is unacceptable. Someone who cares enough honestly should do something about it and contact MB Corporate. It is simply not right to advertise a "performance car" sliding around tracks, and in reality it can't go more than 3 laps at a time. If there is a fix (like coolers) MB should pay for it.

Everytime I see this topic pop up I can't believe the track guys just let it be. Someone who truly cares enough should fight this with MB, hopefully that's you. If you need any email addresses, PM me.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:41 AM
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Well, I will do what I can and report back. Not in my nature to let things lie so we will see where i get to.

D
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
You are right. This is unacceptable. Someone who cares enough honestly should do something about it and contact MB Corporate. It is simply not right to advertise a "performance car" sliding around tracks, and in reality it can't go more than 3 laps at a time. If there is a fix (like coolers) MB should pay for it.

Everytime I see this topic pop up I can't believe the track guys just let it be. Someone who truly cares enough should fight this with MB, hopefully that's you. If you need any email addresses, PM me.
Some of us just got track cars
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dtriggs View Post
When describing my problem with the car I said 'limp mode' but in reality all that happened was it stuck at high revs in a lowish gear and would change. I have now talked with a friend in California who has a C63 and on the road had this problem. The dealer did a software reboot and although it already had the latest gearbox software it apparently has made a difference.

I will talk to my dealer today.
This is what is happening to all of us... or some variation.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:03 AM
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This has never happened to me after 4-5 sessions per day - 20-25 minutes long (~10 laps). Never use manual mode, only S mode.

Sounds like trans overheated and typical software MCT problem, not pre-2012. Very sad.... DCT, PDK, Manual or nothing here on out.

Last edited by BerBer63; 09-12-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BerBer63 View Post
This has never happened to me after 4-5 sessions per day - 20-25 minutes long (~10 laps). Never use manual mode, only S mode.

Sounds like MCT problem, not pre-2012. Very sad.... DCT, PDK, Manual or nothing
the black series has MCT, no issues AFAIK
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
You are right. This is unacceptable. Someone who cares enough honestly should do something about it and contact MB Corporate. It is simply not right to advertise a "performance car" sliding around tracks, and in reality it can't go more than 3 laps at a time. If there is a fix (like coolers) MB should pay for it.

Everytime I see this topic pop up I can't believe the track guys just let it be. Someone who truly cares enough should fight this with MB, hopefully that's you. If you need any email addresses, PM me.

I agree. This car is advertised as a car you can take to the track. Please send me any e-mail addresses you think can work.

On a related note, I went in to complain about the heat again and was told it is "normal" and the SA said that I should not put down I took the car to Mosport as it could void the warranty. That is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. SAs at BMW used to encourage track driving and even invited me to track days.

This is Mercedes Benz Downtown in Toronto, Canada.
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