New C class AMG to get 4.0 V-8
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 2
From: Miami
M156
4.0 Turbo engine sounds more believable than the 5.5 NA for sure. I'm guessing they will change the engine in SLK like they did in E63 as well.
True but I don't think more than 5 percent of the people tune their cars. We are in the crazy minority.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 3
From: Central Florida
2013 Chevy 427 Torch Red
MPG regulations are dictating the future whether you like it or not. This motor would share some parts with the ( cough cough ) 2.0L 4 cylinder AMG motor in the new small car line. In the Corvette world, everyone is wondering whether the 7.0L is dead with the C7 generation arriving next year. Regarding the W205, the real question is how light will they make it? If it's under 3500 pounds it will be an entirely new driving experience.
Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
2013 C63 coupe
I do appreciate that turbo tech has come a LONG way. The difference is still in power delivery. As a generalization, turbos die off in power towards redline. Power is early on and mid RPM range. This is useful for daily driving. NA engines usually continue to build power to redline. My experience is that at a track, you spend way more time in the upper end of the RPM range where a turbo struggles. Also, although lag is greatly reduced, it is still there to some extent... although minimally.
For daily commute work, there is no doubt a turbo has advantages but, IMO, is less than optimal in certain circumstances. There is something satisfying revving a NA engine to redline and feeling the linear pull all the way there.
But, to your point, the engine technology today is so good the preference for one type of engine to another is a personal thing and in some ways nostalgic. I have yet to drive a turbo that was as satisfying to me as a NA car like the E92 M3 or the C63. Granted, I haven't driven the F10 M5 or the M157 yet... maybe my opinion would change
For daily commute work, there is no doubt a turbo has advantages but, IMO, is less than optimal in certain circumstances. There is something satisfying revving a NA engine to redline and feeling the linear pull all the way there.
But, to your point, the engine technology today is so good the preference for one type of engine to another is a personal thing and in some ways nostalgic. I have yet to drive a turbo that was as satisfying to me as a NA car like the E92 M3 or the C63. Granted, I haven't driven the F10 M5 or the M157 yet... maybe my opinion would change
Come over to Aus and take a 4 litre inline six with single turbo for a spin and tell me she does not pull hard to redline (harder as she goes through the range).
A 4 litre single or twin v8 will be awesome, quick revving, no lag, high rpm. Plus most importantly factory low compression will lead to turbo changes and tuning capabilities you just can't get with NA unless you spend big bucks.
However I do understand the point about the 'soul' of a NA V8 hence why I am going from a supercharged 5 litre to the C63 coupe in about 2 weeks....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 1
2012 C63 coupe
Sounds like you have driven very little in the way of a modern day, large capacity turboed car (unless what you drove was a truck).
Come over to Aus and take a 4 litre inline six with single turbo for a spin and tell me she does not pull hard to redline (harder as she goes through the range).
A 4 litre single or twin v8 will be awesome, quick revving, no lag, high rpm. Plus most importantly factory low compression will lead to turbo changes and tuning capabilities you just can't get with NA unless you spend big bucks.
However I do understand the point about the 'soul' of a NA V8 hence why I am going from a supercharged 5 litre to the C63 coupe in about 2 weeks....
Come over to Aus and take a 4 litre inline six with single turbo for a spin and tell me she does not pull hard to redline (harder as she goes through the range).
A 4 litre single or twin v8 will be awesome, quick revving, no lag, high rpm. Plus most importantly factory low compression will lead to turbo changes and tuning capabilities you just can't get with NA unless you spend big bucks.
However I do understand the point about the 'soul' of a NA V8 hence why I am going from a supercharged 5 litre to the C63 coupe in about 2 weeks....
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Victoria
2010 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG
I think the bottom line is, we are correct in thinking our vehicles of the future are only going to be constricted by fuel savings and regulations. But majority of us have owned, or have driven a vehicle with the M156. And for the owners, this was part of the reason we fell in love with the car. The sound, the feel and the drive. Moving from this to a 4.0L TT seems to be a big change for the buyer of a C63 AMG. One that might not look appealing at all. It seems the sensible choice to bridge the gap between the two would be the M157. Giving the normally N/A focused driver an experience at F/I, only dropping displacement by .708 cc rather than a quite substantial 2.208cc and having a better economy.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 17
From: Toronto
2016 C63 S
I think the bottom line is, we are correct in thinking our vehicles of the future are only going to be constricted by fuel savings and regulations. But majority of us have owned, or have driven a vehicle with the M156. And for the owners, this was part of the reason we fell in love with the car. The sound, the feel and the drive. Moving from this to a 4.0L TT seems to be a big change for the buyer of a C63 AMG. One that might not look appealing at all. It seems the sensible choice to bridge the gap between the two would be the M157. Giving the normally N/A focused driver an experience at F/I, only dropping displacement by .708 cc rather than a quite substantial 2.208cc and having a better economy.
Not gonna happen. They are making a clear delineation within the models, when it comes to powerplants.
Spend $90k + and you get the limitless 5.5 TT
Spend $80k and under and get the smaller powerplants.
It's hard to justify the $160k price tag of the S63, when the C63 had the same powerplant for $70k.
The TT 4.0 will be a monster motor. Look at the power the 2013 S8 makes with a TT 4.0....520hp and 479 lb/ft....stock
and 3.5 0-60!
Last edited by callmiro; Dec 27, 2012 at 09:16 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 3
From: Central Florida
2013 Chevy 427 Torch Red
Not gonna happen. They are making a clear delineation within the models, when it comes to powerplants.
Spend $90k + and you get the limitless 5.5 TT
Spend $80k and under and get the smaller powerplants.
It's hard to justify the $160k price tag of the S63, when the C63 had the same powerplant for $70k.
The TT 4.0 will be a monster motor. Look at the power the 2013 S8 makes with a TT 4.0....520hp and 479 lb/ft....stock
and 3.5 0-60!
Spend $90k + and you get the limitless 5.5 TT
Spend $80k and under and get the smaller powerplants.
It's hard to justify the $160k price tag of the S63, when the C63 had the same powerplant for $70k.
The TT 4.0 will be a monster motor. Look at the power the 2013 S8 makes with a TT 4.0....520hp and 479 lb/ft....stock
and 3.5 0-60!
especially if the car is closer to 3500 pounds than 4000.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
my wife bananas! :D
totally understand why MB as well as most if not all manufacturers are going the smaller engine with turbo / supercharger route. but I still cant help but make this comparison
new engines: pumped full of viagara to give its size and power
the M156: naturally hung
i'll take the M156
new engines: pumped full of viagara to give its size and power
the M156: naturally hung
i'll take the M156
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,675
Likes: 11
From: NA
Yes
All of these analogies and fears and stories and limitations and so on/so forth are literally comical.
Every time AMG/M/etc releases something new that is different, fanboys all around the world cry about how their current car will be the "last true ___". "No soul!" Etc etc. Speculation begins about how <insert current car> will be a collectors item, and prices on the used market will shoot through the roof for "true enthusiasts" who want the "last great AMG/M/etc"
Fast forward to the car's release - those same people end up right in line buying one with a few exceptions. Turns out (whodathunkit) that the millions and millions of dollars the manufacturer spends on R&D and identifying what all segments of their market wants actually works. The car turns out to be awesome, all of the chicken little's worries (turbo lag as an example) turn out to be completely irrelevant except for those who want to hang on oh so badly. Those who can accept that the new model is better end up enjoying it with a smile on their face, the minority who choose to be right versus being happy stick with their current rides (that depreciate just the same by the way) and the world keeps on spinning.
Let's just cut to the chase, cut all that stuff out, get excited for the new car, and when you drive it, determine how badass of a ride it really is....or not.
Every time AMG/M/etc releases something new that is different, fanboys all around the world cry about how their current car will be the "last true ___". "No soul!" Etc etc. Speculation begins about how <insert current car> will be a collectors item, and prices on the used market will shoot through the roof for "true enthusiasts" who want the "last great AMG/M/etc"
Fast forward to the car's release - those same people end up right in line buying one with a few exceptions. Turns out (whodathunkit) that the millions and millions of dollars the manufacturer spends on R&D and identifying what all segments of their market wants actually works. The car turns out to be awesome, all of the chicken little's worries (turbo lag as an example) turn out to be completely irrelevant except for those who want to hang on oh so badly. Those who can accept that the new model is better end up enjoying it with a smile on their face, the minority who choose to be right versus being happy stick with their current rides (that depreciate just the same by the way) and the world keeps on spinning.
Let's just cut to the chase, cut all that stuff out, get excited for the new car, and when you drive it, determine how badass of a ride it really is....or not.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 1
2012 C63 coupe
All of these analogies and fears and stories and limitations and so on/so forth are literally comical.
Every time AMG/M/etc releases something new that is different, fanboys all around the world cry about how their current car will be the "last true ___". "No soul!" Etc etc. Speculation begins about how <insert current car> will be a collectors item, and prices on the used market will shoot through the roof for "true enthusiasts" who want the "last great AMG/M/etc"
Fast forward to the car's release - those same people end up right in line buying one with a few exceptions. Turns out (whodathunkit) that the millions and millions of dollars the manufacturer spends on R&D and identifying what all segments of their market wants actually works. The car turns out to be awesome, all of the chicken little's worries (turbo lag as an example) turn out to be completely irrelevant except for those who want to hang on oh so badly. Those who can accept that the new model is better end up enjoying it with a smile on their face, the minority who choose to be right versus being happy stick with their current rides (that depreciate just the same by the way) and the world keeps on spinning.
Let's just cut to the chase, cut all that stuff out, get excited for the new car, and when you drive it, determine how badass of a ride it really is....or not.
Every time AMG/M/etc releases something new that is different, fanboys all around the world cry about how their current car will be the "last true ___". "No soul!" Etc etc. Speculation begins about how <insert current car> will be a collectors item, and prices on the used market will shoot through the roof for "true enthusiasts" who want the "last great AMG/M/etc"
Fast forward to the car's release - those same people end up right in line buying one with a few exceptions. Turns out (whodathunkit) that the millions and millions of dollars the manufacturer spends on R&D and identifying what all segments of their market wants actually works. The car turns out to be awesome, all of the chicken little's worries (turbo lag as an example) turn out to be completely irrelevant except for those who want to hang on oh so badly. Those who can accept that the new model is better end up enjoying it with a smile on their face, the minority who choose to be right versus being happy stick with their current rides (that depreciate just the same by the way) and the world keeps on spinning.
Let's just cut to the chase, cut all that stuff out, get excited for the new car, and when you drive it, determine how badass of a ride it really is....or not.
So, you are right that many will flock to the new car and praise its virtues. That doesn't mean the car will have the better engine for some of us.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
SL63
Such whiners. It was never going to get the M157, to believe so was a pipe dream as much as an E getting the M279. The 4.0T will be cheap to mod for easy power much more so than the 6.2. I just bought a '13 SLK 55 with the M152 so I'm kinda bummed. I'd much rather have the 4.0T.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,675
Likes: 11
From: NA
Yes
It's still a 4.0 8 cylinder engine my man. If this were a 1.8L 4 cylinder with a T88 strapped to it, OK, I get it, cause for concern. But before just saying "oh geez Im a road racer and this sucks for road racing" have a little faith...or at least get a little wheel time before jumping to that conclusion
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
my wife bananas! :D
So why do you think MB is going to implement some non-linear powerband? Someone mentions the word "turbo" and the "purists" come out of the woodwork with their spiked bats claiming that whatever is new won't address their niche use for the car, as if what you do with it is especially unique somehow.
It's still a 4.0 8 cylinder engine my man. If this were a 1.8L 4 cylinder with a T88 strapped to it, OK, I get it, cause for concern. But before just saying "oh geez Im a road racer and this sucks for road racing" have a little faith...or at least get a little wheel time before jumping to that conclusion
It's still a 4.0 8 cylinder engine my man. If this were a 1.8L 4 cylinder with a T88 strapped to it, OK, I get it, cause for concern. But before just saying "oh geez Im a road racer and this sucks for road racing" have a little faith...or at least get a little wheel time before jumping to that conclusion
we are still a long while away from the w205 C63 rendition. till then, let this forum serve its purpose. there are pros and cons of turbo vs NA.. because one is not absolutely better than the other, there will always be discussions from people from both camps. No need to come in all glory dory.
Most of us have bought MB before.. heck some of us, myself included have been buying MBs for over a decade (multiple decades if you count rest of the family)... obviously MB will be making a car superior to the previous editions.. havent found a car maker to go backwards and still be in business
if anything, the technology upgrades and creature comfort improvements will make it worth looking at.change will come, it's out of our control but let the people say their 2cents...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 1
2012 C63 coupe
So why do you think MB is going to implement some non-linear powerband? Someone mentions the word "turbo" and the "purists" come out of the woodwork with their spiked bats claiming that whatever is new won't address their niche use for the car, as if what you do with it is especially unique somehow.
It's still a 4.0 8 cylinder engine my man. If this were a 1.8L 4 cylinder with a T88 strapped to it, OK, I get it, cause for concern. But before just saying "oh geez Im a road racer and this sucks for road racing" have a little faith...or at least get a little wheel time before jumping to that conclusion
It's still a 4.0 8 cylinder engine my man. If this were a 1.8L 4 cylinder with a T88 strapped to it, OK, I get it, cause for concern. But before just saying "oh geez Im a road racer and this sucks for road racing" have a little faith...or at least get a little wheel time before jumping to that conclusion
The MB turbo will be the best engine ever. I will buy one. I will become an Internet avenger Rory and verbally punish all "purists" going forward. Feel better now?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 1
2012 C63 coupe
Such whiners. It was never going to get the M157, to believe so was a pipe dream as much as an E getting the M279. The 4.0T will be cheap to mod for easy power much more so than the 6.2. I just bought a '13 SLK 55 with the M152 so I'm kinda bummed. I'd much rather have the 4.0T.
If you would much rather have the 4.0T then just buy one when available.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 1
2012 C63 coupe
Ultimately, I do agree that MB and BMW will get their AMG and M engines "right" and even the fanboy purists will convert eventually. It's just too bad there won't be a choice for those who incorrectly want something without a turbo for invalid reasons
.... just messing around again
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 832
Likes: 3
From: Melbourne
(a)'12 C63 P/P, LSD, 19" m/spoke,comfort pack. (b)Astra SRI.
Some good points of discussion here, but like I said before, NO-ONE, as yet, (apart from AMG) knows what will be sitting under the "new" C63 bonnet, so I can't see the point in getting "stoked up", until we do?
Cheers, Pickles.
Cheers, Pickles.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
2011 M3
99% of people don't track
99% of people will only ever use these as DD's
99% of people don't ever go above 90mph, ever
99% of people will never run up to redline, because they only use "D"
99% of people won't know the difference, because,
99% of people don't know what engine their car has
99% of WANT more efficient cars
F1 is scheduled to go to F/I is 2014/15. That will be a "bad" track engine?
Sorry, go back to mourning the "good old days".
99% of people will only ever use these as DD's
99% of people don't ever go above 90mph, ever
99% of people will never run up to redline, because they only use "D"
99% of people won't know the difference, because,
99% of people don't know what engine their car has
99% of WANT more efficient cars
F1 is scheduled to go to F/I is 2014/15. That will be a "bad" track engine?
Sorry, go back to mourning the "good old days".
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 128
Likes: 6
CLA250
99% of people don't track
99% of people will only ever use these as DD's
99% of people don't ever go above 90mph, ever
99% of people will never run up to redline, because they only use "D"
99% of people won't know the difference, because,
99% of people don't know what engine their car has
99% of WANT more efficient cars
F1 is scheduled to go to F/I is 2014/15. That will be a "bad" track engine?
Sorry, go back to mourning the "good old days".
99% of people will only ever use these as DD's
99% of people don't ever go above 90mph, ever
99% of people will never run up to redline, because they only use "D"
99% of people won't know the difference, because,
99% of people don't know what engine their car has
99% of WANT more efficient cars
F1 is scheduled to go to F/I is 2014/15. That will be a "bad" track engine?
Sorry, go back to mourning the "good old days".
99% of people want 6.2L NA engine only because of the sound
Once they get used to the new sound of 4.0T they will never want to go back 6.2 I don't hear many complaints from current 4.6TT owners about missing previous NA engines...
