MB C63 AMG (SLS Engine fitted) !!
02-06-2013, 04:51 PM
#26
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02-06-2013, 06:31 PM
#30
Since you've tried it and done the research your the man to ask..
Why is this? I remember Andy saying the c63 heads flow like crazy something like 390/340. Does the sls flow that much better?
02-06-2013, 06:55 PM
#33
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2009 C63, 2000 ML 430, 1994 Del Sol Vtec
I've been through this with previous engine builds. Unless the SLS motor has much higher static compression?
Last edited by b16; 02-06-2013 at 06:57 PM.
02-06-2013, 10:09 PM
#34
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2014 Audi RS7
Our heads do flow very well and it has to do with the cams/heads/intake combination. When you install the SLS cams in our cars the power does weird things. Not sure why but its not good.
02-06-2013, 11:55 PM
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2009 C63, 2000 ML 430, 1994 Del Sol Vtec
Were you able to control cam timing when you had those cams in?
Last edited by b16; 02-06-2013 at 11:59 PM.
02-07-2013, 12:52 AM
#36
I think it has less to do with head design and more to do with intake/exhaust. Our variable intake manifold is well designed for the cams/power band the car has now. You change the cams and want to move the power band around, that variable intake becomes a bottleneck.
I've been through this with previous engine builds. Unless the SLS motor has much higher static compression?
I've been through this with previous engine builds. Unless the SLS motor has much higher static compression?
A variable intake shouldn't become a bottle neck. That's the point of it being variable is to lengthen and shorten with RPM, to give good low end torque and high end hp.
Changing the cams and moving the power band around is exactly what the ECU does in the M156/M159. This is why they have such great low end torque but pull hard right to redline. The ECU is constantly modify the cam profiles. It has the ability to retard and advanced the cams 21 degrees in each direction as well as change overlap.
This is why throwing in a M159 (SLS) cam would do more damage than good, unless the tuner has the ability to tune the ECU's cam varying functions. Id bet AMG has spent 100s of hours playing and tuning with the variable cams.
I have never seen any literature to suggest that the M159 has different heads... Has anyone checked part numbers to confirm?
02-07-2013, 11:59 AM
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2009 C63, 2000 ML 430, 1994 Del Sol Vtec
Changing the cams and moving the power band around is exactly what the ECU does in the M156/M159. This is why they have such great low end torque but pull hard right to redline. The ECU is constantly modify the cam profiles. It has the ability to retard and advanced the cams 21 degrees in each direction as well as change overlap.
This is why throwing in a M159 (SLS) cam would do more damage than good, unless the tuner has the ability to tune the ECU's cam varying functions. Id bet AMG has spent 100s of hours playing and tuning with the variable cams.
This is why throwing in a M159 (SLS) cam would do more damage than good, unless the tuner has the ability to tune the ECU's cam varying functions. Id bet AMG has spent 100s of hours playing and tuning with the variable cams.
Just throwing out my experience with engine modification. Even though it was done on 4 cylinder engines, the theories and applications are the same when aiming for high RPM power band.
02-07-2013, 04:50 PM
#42
To an extent sure, but you have to sacrafice something else to get the variable length. Maybe plenum volume is changed. Regardless, it isn't free and if it were such a perfect piece we would probably see it on the SLS as well. My experience with other variable intake manifolds is they become obsolete and restrictive when modifying for flow outside the original design.
So there is no way to tune the variable cams? Also, it doesn't take that much time in tuning variable cams. I've done this in Honda K series motors and Mitsu Evo9/EvoX motors.
Just throwing out my experience with engine modification. Even though it was done on 4 cylinder engines, the theories and applications are the same when aiming for high RPM power band.
So there is no way to tune the variable cams? Also, it doesn't take that much time in tuning variable cams. I've done this in Honda K series motors and Mitsu Evo9/EvoX motors.
Just throwing out my experience with engine modification. Even though it was done on 4 cylinder engines, the theories and applications are the same when aiming for high RPM power band.
It would be nice if we had a similar mechanism to vtec to open valve lift up in the higher rpm too. Imagine the sound and power that would make on a 6.3 V8.
02-07-2013, 11:03 PM
#43
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2009 C63, 2000 ML 430, 1994 Del Sol Vtec
Ya so the K series has the VTC which is exactly what the M156 has. I know Weistec can tune for it, but I am not sure if these other tuners are able to adjust it at all. I know this is why we are able to run 11.3:1 comp with boost, because they are opening the intake valve earlier to bleed off some compression, lowering the dynamic compression.
It would be nice if we had a similar mechanism to vtec to open valve lift up in the higher rpm too. Imagine the sound and power that would make on a 6.3 V8.
It would be nice if we had a similar mechanism to vtec to open valve lift up in the higher rpm too. Imagine the sound and power that would make on a 6.3 V8.
Yes, having a 2nd profile with longer duration and more lift would be excellent. Such simple technology to implement, wish more engines had it. Honda might have a patent on the design though?
