No Fly Zone Airstrip Event - 2013 C63 P31 vs 2013 F10 M5
03-06-2013, 09:27 PM
#51
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02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
Your wrong about the vbox times compare to the dragstrip. My vbox read within 1mph from strip. My best vbox run on 0% was low 12s@120-121+.
03-06-2013, 09:40 PM
#52
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Doesn't change that C&D always has exagerated times. A quick query turned up this as one reason why. Compare their results to other mags that do actual 1/4 mile or dragtimes testing and you'll see the difference. I lost all faith in them when they sold out to Audi posting those crazy exclusive preview S6 times, then when the real cars came out and other mags testes they weren't even close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Tjo6Oyo#t=116s
03-06-2013, 09:44 PM
#53
Looks like my run with this M5. But not at those high speeds. Mine is tune only. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NfkVM84qfIU
03-06-2013, 09:48 PM
#55
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02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
Mine's never worked out for me, what's your settings? You running the latest software version?
Doesn't change that C&D always has exagerated times. A quick query turned up this as one reason why. Compare their results to other mags that do actual 1/4 mile or dragtimes testing and you'll see the difference. I lost all faith in them when they sold out to Audi posting those crazy exclusive preview S6 times, then when the real cars came out and other mags testes they weren't even close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Tjo6Oyo#t=116s
Doesn't change that C&D always has exagerated times. A quick query turned up this as one reason why. Compare their results to other mags that do actual 1/4 mile or dragtimes testing and you'll see the difference. I lost all faith in them when they sold out to Audi posting those crazy exclusive preview S6 times, then when the real cars came out and other mags testes they weren't even close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Tjo6Oyo#t=116s
03-06-2013, 09:55 PM
#56
Super Member
I got mine about 4 months ago and it came with the original version of the software on it from when it first came out many years ago it looked like. I updated it to the newest first thing. Maybe, you should leave yours alone then. I did a few runs and it was reading 4-6 mph higher trap than my 1/4 mile times at Dallas Raceway.
03-06-2013, 09:57 PM
#57
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02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
I got mine about 4 months ago and it came with the original version of the software on it from when it first came out many years ago it looked like. I updated it to the newest first thing. Maybe, you should leave yours alone then. I did a few runs and it was reading 4-6 mph higher trap than my 1/4 mile times at Dallas Raceway.
03-06-2013, 10:00 PM
#58
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vbox is mph at 1/4mile. Trap speed is average mph in the last 60 or 100ft i think so vbox will always be slightly higher (not 4-6 mph tho), like 1.
03-06-2013, 10:18 PM
#59
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I just use it as a playtoy now.
03-07-2013, 08:55 AM
#61
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Friendly debate it is 
. My coolaid comment was not meant to be harsh.
I believe we agree on most items. 1/4 mile is close, any car can be made to be faster than the other one and the M157 is cheaper to mod due to its turbos.
What I think we still disagree on is past the 1/4 mile. I have proven that the E/CLS still pulls stronger with a higher trap speed and .8 sec faster to 200kph. My experience has shown the M157 being on top by a decent margin. I am not sure jrcart's comment apply to stock cars as he does not keep his cars stock a long time.
I am sorry about the comment of the M157 tune. I just misinterpreted and as you state, no emotions on the forum, just reading sentences. All good.
I do not know where fastestlap.com take their data, they just state they use a variety of sources (car magazines, TV, etc). I find it to be really fair as they take comment from users and adjust accordingly after more tests are completed.
I can't wait for my CLS4matic to arrive. I think with the AWD, the E/CLS will have a clear edge in the 1/4 mile but it may rob power in the higher speed so it will be fun to see who comes on top.
. My coolaid comment was not meant to be harsh.I believe we agree on most items. 1/4 mile is close, any car can be made to be faster than the other one and the M157 is cheaper to mod due to its turbos.
What I think we still disagree on is past the 1/4 mile. I have proven that the E/CLS still pulls stronger with a higher trap speed and .8 sec faster to 200kph. My experience has shown the M157 being on top by a decent margin. I am not sure jrcart's comment apply to stock cars as he does not keep his cars stock a long time.
I am sorry about the comment of the M157 tune. I just misinterpreted and as you state, no emotions on the forum, just reading sentences. All good.
I do not know where fastestlap.com take their data, they just state they use a variety of sources (car magazines, TV, etc). I find it to be really fair as they take comment from users and adjust accordingly after more tests are completed.
I can't wait for my CLS4matic to arrive. I think with the AWD, the E/CLS will have a clear edge in the 1/4 mile but it may rob power in the higher speed so it will be fun to see who comes on top.
Do you know if that 11.9 is legit and what magazine it was from? Just asking no reason people can't have friendly debates without getting accused of "drinking the koolaid"
Car and driver tested the c63 coupe @ 12.1 @ 120mph so the gap isn't that big ! As you see the c usually has a slightly better 0-60 time and the cls has the slightly better 1/4 time and trap speed
Now what I'm going to say is my opinion based on knowledge throughout the years of having different cars with different power bands and learning how they ran so I can be completely wrong but ill give my educated opinion
If you see the Dyno sheets the cls has a HUGE midrange torque advantage so what I think is happening is the C is getting better traction due to less torque /wheel spin on the initial launch hence better 0-60 times
then those turbos really spool on the m157 and it launches forward making that time up in the first 1/8 mile with brutal torque and pull
Then as the gears change and your only seeing the top of the rpms the monster top endpowerband and weight of the c63/m156 real it back in to make it close
The thing is you really only use that monster low/midrange from a dig because when your racing from a roll like these guys were and have 7 gears to play with you will start out in the strong part of your power band and that huge midrange advantage is taken out of the equation and the weight disadvantage is still there making it an interesting race ! I'm not making any claims but Jrcart did and if anyone has had experience with both these cars / engines its him and when he said "trust me" makes it seem like him and the guys at wiestec have tried it out
Either way I love both cars and engines and I'd love to run any m157 once I get my mbh headers bolted on win or lose its all fun I'm not a fan boy of anything
If you go up a few comments you see I said "I love the m157 and the ability to have silly power with just a software change" so I don't know where you got the Idea I don't want to admit that a tune gives huge gains on these motors sometimes its better to take a second really read what people are saying realize its thru text so there aren't emotions displayed that you might think they are and then respond
I was just making a point that at this moment the c63 with the m156 can be made faster than the fastest m157 if you want to get out of the realm of the way they came out of the factory
Car and driver tested the c63 coupe @ 12.1 @ 120mph so the gap isn't that big ! As you see the c usually has a slightly better 0-60 time and the cls has the slightly better 1/4 time and trap speed
Now what I'm going to say is my opinion based on knowledge throughout the years of having different cars with different power bands and learning how they ran so I can be completely wrong but ill give my educated opinion
If you see the Dyno sheets the cls has a HUGE midrange torque advantage so what I think is happening is the C is getting better traction due to less torque /wheel spin on the initial launch hence better 0-60 times
then those turbos really spool on the m157 and it launches forward making that time up in the first 1/8 mile with brutal torque and pull
Then as the gears change and your only seeing the top of the rpms the monster top endpowerband and weight of the c63/m156 real it back in to make it close
The thing is you really only use that monster low/midrange from a dig because when your racing from a roll like these guys were and have 7 gears to play with you will start out in the strong part of your power band and that huge midrange advantage is taken out of the equation and the weight disadvantage is still there making it an interesting race ! I'm not making any claims but Jrcart did and if anyone has had experience with both these cars / engines its him and when he said "trust me" makes it seem like him and the guys at wiestec have tried it out
Either way I love both cars and engines and I'd love to run any m157 once I get my mbh headers bolted on win or lose its all fun I'm not a fan boy of anything
If you go up a few comments you see I said "I love the m157 and the ability to have silly power with just a software change" so I don't know where you got the Idea I don't want to admit that a tune gives huge gains on these motors sometimes its better to take a second really read what people are saying realize its thru text so there aren't emotions displayed that you might think they are and then respond
I was just making a point that at this moment the c63 with the m156 can be made faster than the fastest m157 if you want to get out of the realm of the way they came out of the factory
03-07-2013, 11:40 AM
#62
Friendly debate it is . My coolaid comment was not meant to be harsh.
I believe we agree on most items. 1/4 mile is close, any car can be made to be faster than the other one and the M157 is cheaper to mod due to its turbos.
What I think we still disagree on is past the 1/4 mile. I have proven that the E/CLS still pulls stronger with a higher trap speed and .8 sec faster to 200kph. My experience has shown the M157 being on top by a decent margin. I am not sure jrcart's comment apply to stock cars as he does not keep his cars stock a long time.
I am sorry about the comment of the M157 tune. I just misinterpreted and as you state, no emotions on the forum, just reading sentences. All good.
I do not know where fastestlap.com take their data, they just state they use a variety of sources (car magazines, TV, etc). I find it to be really fair as they take comment from users and adjust accordingly after more tests are completed.
I can't wait for my CLS4matic to arrive. I think with the AWD, the E/CLS will have a clear edge in the 1/4 mile but it may rob power in the higher speed so it will be fun to see who comes on top.
. My coolaid comment was not meant to be harsh.I believe we agree on most items. 1/4 mile is close, any car can be made to be faster than the other one and the M157 is cheaper to mod due to its turbos.
What I think we still disagree on is past the 1/4 mile. I have proven that the E/CLS still pulls stronger with a higher trap speed and .8 sec faster to 200kph. My experience has shown the M157 being on top by a decent margin. I am not sure jrcart's comment apply to stock cars as he does not keep his cars stock a long time.
I am sorry about the comment of the M157 tune. I just misinterpreted and as you state, no emotions on the forum, just reading sentences. All good.
I do not know where fastestlap.com take their data, they just state they use a variety of sources (car magazines, TV, etc). I find it to be really fair as they take comment from users and adjust accordingly after more tests are completed.
I can't wait for my CLS4matic to arrive. I think with the AWD, the E/CLS will have a clear edge in the 1/4 mile but it may rob power in the higher speed so it will be fun to see who comes on top.
Agreed the M157 is cheaper to mod to a certain level and responds to simple mods much better but dont forget the original investment of the more expensive car that the m157 comes in !
The thing with using that website is that time was probably posted from a different magazine that has a better prepared track/different weather/ different testing methods etc i like to compare cars to other cars tested by the same people as you will always get different results even if your looking at the same car magazine to magazine !
If you look at the car and driver articles they show a 0-100MPH time of 8.5 for the CLS63 PP and 0-100MPH time of 8.6 for the C63 Coupe PP so that is VERY CLOSE and supports what i was saying early so i doubt at the same place same weather same testing conditions the cls would be .8 seconds faster to 200 KPH that would mean in the 24 MPH after 100MPH(200kph is 124mph) the CLS63 made up .7 seconds which obviously doesn't seem right. I honestly think its alot closer than you think and the top end powerband / weight of the C63 would come through on the top end after 125 but i own a C63 coupe so i might be slightly biased
I wish there was someone around my area with a PP CLS63 to test it outJR actually kept that C stock for a while and im sure being the racer that he is he lined up against the Weistec E63 a few times hence why he said "trust me" he doesnt seem like a guy to make BS claims without knowing the results first hand
The AWD will be a killer combo with the m157 and a tune all that torque with AWD grip will be a stop light king MB/AMG might be looking at future lawsuits for whiplash
03-07-2013, 12:20 PM
#64
Super Member
Don't know. My stock non PP CLS63 put down 480 HP at the wheels. The CLS is surprisingly slightly lighter than the M5. I don't think the weight difference would be big enough for a C63 PP to pull off a win.
03-07-2013, 12:54 PM
#65
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Weight becomes less of a factor relative to frontal area/drag as speeds rise. I think the C's smaller frontal area is probably helping it more than the lower weight at 130mph+ speeds.
I think this is also why Sport Auto got a quicker 0-200kph time for the C63 P31 than for the C63 BS. The plain Jane body of the P31 punches a cleaner hole through the air than the wide-body BS.
I think this is also why Sport Auto got a quicker 0-200kph time for the C63 P31 than for the C63 BS. The plain Jane body of the P31 punches a cleaner hole through the air than the wide-body BS.
03-07-2013, 01:07 PM
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03-07-2013, 03:04 PM
#67
But there is still the weight difference, shorter power band, and frontal drag that P2P brought up which is a great point ! idk id love to see a real world race lol im tired of paper racing
03-07-2013, 04:20 PM
#68
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X2 on actual racing. Not enough videos and too much paper benchmarking.
I wish more events like 1/2 mile or full mile would pop up. Probably an insurance issue...
I wish more events like 1/2 mile or full mile would pop up. Probably an insurance issue...
03-08-2013, 04:55 AM
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Fwiw m5board ran a non-pp cls63 vs a new m5 and the m5 came out on top.
I know some consider the m5board videos biased toward bummers but just food for thought.
According to this video and the run by this thread's OP a p31 mct c63 would destroy a non-pp cls63 easily
I know some consider the m5board videos biased toward bummers but just food for thought.
According to this video and the run by this thread's OP a p31 mct c63 would destroy a non-pp cls63 easily
03-08-2013, 10:26 AM
#74
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I love watching the guys on the BMW boards crying over the beatdowns we gave them at the airstrip event last weekend.
I am running my cars at the Shift Sector event April 6-7 so there should be more epic video in a few weeks
I am running my cars at the Shift Sector event April 6-7 so there should be more epic video in a few weeks
03-08-2013, 11:33 AM
#75
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e55
