ShellURT

This is true and will be the straw that broke the camel's back, not that that sucker isn't about to tip as is. Nothing he can do about it but try and spin it, but when he see's who the vendor is I think we'll just see a disappearing act and a concession to move on. Just MHO

MBH motorsports

Thats where you are WRONG. We use 16 gauge everywhere. Inducing primary tubes. You just reiterated the point Im making. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now can you understand the points I'm making about 16 gauge vs 18 gauge headers?

ShellURT

That's because of the extra room you have with a TriY deisgn (space concession). No 4 into 1 uses .065 in the primarys.

As for your question, no it makes no difference at all as far as heat transfer or noise. You think your headers are quieter due to being 16 guage at the primary? Seriously? You don't think 18 guage SS primarys get screaming hot and hold that temp?

Decibel meter will be used at idle, part throttle and wide open throttle during the objective test. You asked for it.

What matters the most as far as exhaust noise are the 3" mids you both use, X pipe vs non (which was a factor with the Gen 1 MHP stuff but not Gen 2). 3" mids are 50%+ louder than 2.5" mids no matter the application but are worth the trade off IMO. .045" vs .065" primarys, no, no audible difference whatsoever my friend. As measured out the tailpipe they will probably be pretty similar volume wise being you both use a factory catback.

Signing off for the night so knock yourself out. Last time but crying to the mods to close a thread proves my point and makes you look bad to the entire membership. You can't compete on a level field so you pull a favor, no matter what you do there will be at least 6-7 objective customer reviews posted in the next 2 weeks to go along with that vendor test. You can't put the internet back in the can bro. Let it go and focus on making your product better.

Night all.

MBH motorsports

Not true, we make 4 into 1 headers every day with 16 gauge primaries. Unlike you I can start making one tomorrow 63 headers with 16 gauge primary tubes and 4 into 1, rather than phone a shop in another state and ask them nicely to make it for you.

Yes I do think 18 gauge primary tubes get screaming hot. Not sure If I need to keep proving my points when you are doing it for me.

You attacked our product before I posted in this thread for no reason other than to make yours look better. It's a classless move, from a shop that has tried to deceive folks on this forum for a long time. We will defend our product on this site from unprovoked attacks especially from a company that is deceitful.

ShellURT

There isn't room with a C63 to fit 16 guage primarys, and again .020" of extra steel thickness does nothing. No one ever wanted to warranty a set of MHP Gen 1 headers with .045" primarys due to a failure, both Gens carry a Lifetime warranty. Again you skirt the issue of major design concessions with the TriY vs a 4 into 1 by talking about something that translates into nothing on the consumers end.

I don't make headers, I'm the DO of a large company in Columbus that has nothing to do with cars. I'm also pretty sure, being that I speak with Andy nearly daily and have been a customer of AR for years that's not how the partnership over these headers happened.

Take a look at your SLK 4 into 1 headers, why so many cut and welds? Each primary should have zero which would be possible with even an ancient 1.75D bender. The problem is you outsource your bending and use prefab stuff like I said before, you don't have the machinery to make the header properly (with zero cut and welds) so you cobble it together.

There's a right way to do things, and all other ways, you've clearly chosen one of the other ways. Yes it's more profitable for you to do so, but in the end the product quality suffers.

Now are you going to sit here and tell me that putting the already best design LTs in the hands of ARH to optimize is somehow a bad idea? Or that you deliver a better product? I'm all ears on this one.

If you can make a 4 into 1 that easily for the C63 without outright copying MHP or ARHs work I highly suggest you do. Your problem will again be the inability to mandrel bend on site due to your outsourcing of bending. It will be cut and weld city.



You said 16 guage do a better job of staying hot and keeping the energy inside the tube. The truth of the matter is they both do so all this talk about primary thickness is irrelevant. Again address the design concessions. 4 into 1 > TriY

No, I stated TriYs and you aren't the only one that makes them, you stepped forward and made your specific product a target.

You know what I find classless? You calling MHP deceitful. When you accomplish 1/10th of what they have by all means step up to the podium. You make pre fab headers, they do complete engines, cams, heads, exhausts, etc. Its easy to talk junk about MHP because they can't defend themselves on this forum or the one run by the socially retarded sociopath Joeseph Wilk. But do you even know the true reason why MHP was banned from MBW years ago?

Evosport after selling the ownership rights to IB but before giving up admin rights banned them after sending a PM to "Chubs032" answering his question regarding whether or not a non SFI underdrive pulley was a good mod for his C63. Looking back I think we can all answer that question unilaterally: No. But because Evosport sold them and had a significant material investment in them, they read his PM (big brother?) and banned them. This of course came after several instances in which Evosport and MHP publicly clashed (Evosport knocking MHP for using 3" mids for C63 headers which they later did as does everyone else now including you). That is not deceitful, that is bull****. MHP was not the only legitimate business banned back in the Evosport days.

Brad O. after leaving Evosport did apologize to Andy stating "that's not how things should have been handled" but it's business and a dirty one at that so even Andy called it water under the bridge. Its definitely hurt their sales but obviously hasn't slowed their step. Numbers and results speak for themselves and no one can take that away from them, not even with sticks and stones based on fairy tales.

Do you know what I find deceitful Mike? Calling your products the Best Built Headers for your MB when they are clearly not for the factual reasons stated throughout this thread. That to me is the ultimate Lie.

ShellURT

FYI,

Just spoke to Nick @ ARH. They are sponsors on other IB sites and will be signing up here soon. Once they are on board as official sponsors you can look forward to a very technical explanation of the differences in design and major downfalls of a TriY header. No name calling, no calling anyone out, just facts posted.

Thank You

MBH motorsports

Talk to yourself in this thread, the work day is starting for us here in AZ. You can also retract your bender statement. The MHP mantra is to rip on other shops products in hopes to gain sales. Its a classless and stale tactic, unfortunately used by MHP for years. Move on, we are.

ShellURT

Interesting pic, showing a bender on a forklift as if it were being put into position for the first time. It's clear (even you have to admit) you have not used this bender on any of your products to date or else why all the extra cut and welds, each one of them translating into extra time and labor cost incurred by you and passed onto the customer? When your headers don't have a cut and weld every 3-4" we'll all know you are actually using a bender on site.

I can throw up a pic of a 1D bender $750K and claim it's mine (not even on a forklift actually bolted into the ground as it should be).

The facts are posted and haven't been answered as to why one design is superior to another. If by posting facts (which are true) and by delivering a better product one company gains sales over another, I call that legitimate business, feel free to call it what you want on your end. So if you are ready to move on, I will cease posting and let Nick take over when ARH is officially on board.

Thank You

MarkPamatat

I did post the original post about the MHP headers.. I do not have any experience with any other headers so i cant really argue the points here.. Im not soo technical on the end, i just donated the car to do the development on. All i can say is the power increase feels incredible, the car sounds great, definitely loud, but the X-pipe does keep it much more under control.. I have 0 drone when driving, in Comfort mode low throttle the car really doesnt sound much more aggressive then stock as long as im shifting in the 2000-2500 window.

Honestly with all motor cars, and header designs and all sorts of things like that, its kind of pointless to sit here and really get in an internet fight (which is gay) and nit pick certain things.

i wish i had a few companies headers and i would have just went on the dyno and swapped them all out and dyno'd them back to back 3 pull averages, and really put them to the test to see power wise how they all worked out. I will be going to the drag strip to do some runs soon, so i guess we will see how things go. I am very happy with the headers, and they fit great, look great, sound great, and American Racing is about 10 minutes from me so it worked out great.

Again MBH im not attacking your product, so please dont take it that way. im just happy with the product i got, and its quality is definitely top notch. The Tri-y vs 4-1 collector style is the major difference, so people can research and really study and find out what is ideal for the c63, cars are like people in that aspect (every person/ engine is different and reacts different to things)

This is my first all motor car, i have a 1300whp Nissan GTR thats my speed car, so honestly with headers or not i still feel like im driving a prius lol

tomespo

Everyone wants to argue however when people go to make their final decision between MBH AND MHP I believe the choice is very easy once you see customer reviews on MHP. Lets not even get started on the actual quality. MBH craftsmanship and customer service is way ahead of MHP. Ive dealt with a shop who has installed both MBH and MHP and he recommend the MBH by FAR.

MarkPamatat

tomes.. ive read things on the forums my self, but every phone call, every text, and every question before i even purchased a part, was answered quickly and detailed and technical from MHP... MBH i've written as well before i dealt with MHP, and they were good as well. Theres always drama and shops with reps and things like that. If i wanted to i could start a whole war online and have 100 threads on a 100 sites crap talking and making things look legit, even with a company being totally not at fault, and trying to prove it, still raises flags with people and what not. The only **** is bull ****.

You post your experiences and thats that.. Mine has been nothing but good with no headaches.


Mark

tomespo

You're right I agree with you. Everyone has their own experience some good some bad.

ShellURT

Like was already stated. Shops are going to recommend whatever brand they carry, its really that simple.

As far as customer reviews, if you've seen anything bad as far as MHPs headers I'd love to see them because I sure haven't. As far as bashing from those that have never delt with MHP, sure there's tons of that and always will be.

A picture is worth 1000 words and just by looking at what's posted on their relative websites and online forums I can see "craftsmanship" flaws all over the TriY design that were addressed earlier. Non parallel cut and welds and filler rod in the welds. Those are not things you would expect to find on a header at any level, let alone on a MB design. These are things you cannot say about the MHP design which are directly linked to product quality.

MBH motorsports

Just stop, please. You are saying things about our product that are not even remotely true. Attacking our product with untrue information. I could go on and on. I could go on about the handful of MHP headers we have repaired, due to leaking collectors, Leaking head flange due to warped/uneven flanges. For the record, when we TIG weld a header together we use TiG rod, just like everyone else who TIG welds. I wish to no longer engage in a conversation with you, but when you keep spewing nonsense. Im hear having to defend our product and Company.

Your stale tactics to try and beat down your competitors to make your own product look better is old, classless, unprofessional and typical. We run a smooth operation and have many happy customers. It's mind boggling to think anyone especially a company like American Racing Headers would do business with you. For the love of God move on please.

ShellURT

Mike, go to your website, look at the pics posted of your C63 headers and tell me you can't see the non parallel cut and welds. ?

You yourself posted online that you use filler rod in your C63 headers. I didn't have to make anything up, I'm just reposting what you said in addition to posting what I can see from your own pics.

I'd love to see any pictures you have of any of the MHP product you've "repaired or fixed" vs you just saying so. I would personally post pics of your headers with highlights specifically showing what I'm talking about for the members to see that don't understand but you would object and this thread would be deleted.

For the record MHP has always used an inert gas backpurge 316 TIG weld on all exhaust products. If you're saying they don't then post some facts and a picture.

First I'm not in sales, nor am I a part of MHP, ARH or any other automotive manufacturer or tuner. I'm a customer that has had dozens of high performance cars and purchased everything from bolt ons like headers to superchargers and upgraded turbo kits with built motors for others. Not sure how else I can plainly say this so PM me if you want to speak directly I'll send you my cell and you can yourself verify I'm not Andy--you have spoken to Andy before so you would know the difference right?

If you are talking about actual customers, not just made up usernames created to bash MHP by competitors or their customers who don't even own cars, meaning those that have a receipt from MHP...I don't see anyone complaining about product quality or CS.

I guess it does say something that ARH would team up with MHP (I hear this won't be their only collaboration which should bring you extra joy ), they are both results based organizations that bring forth extremely high quality products. Andy and Nick both have extremely high levels of respect for each other. You will hear Nick himself state soon on this forum the existing MHP Gen 1 design was already best on market, and as much as you may not enjoy it why TriYs were never meant for street cars. When Nick drops the hammer there's really nothing you can say to dispute it, the man lives breathes eats headers and exhausts and is responsible for some of the quickest and fastest cars (not just MBs like MHP) in the world.

JonMBZ

Shell if you are actually interested in helping MHP maybe you should just let their products speak for themselves. Your always here blabbing non-stop about their products like you have some obsessive infatuation with them. A lot people don't care what you have to say about the company or are actually irritated with you. I don't know you personally so it's a crappy thing to say, but every time I see your name it's irritating and it reflects negatively towards MHP.

ShellURT

Jon, you know what they say about people that live in glass houses. To be fair you've done more than your fair share of huffing and puffing for Mike. I'm going to guess that 99% of members didn't really know why MHP was banned from this site before this thread was posted, which is really messed up when you think about all the untrue claims of fraud or theft or other BS tossed out by other vendors or their customers.

With that said I do get your point and understand it, but as I told Mike before don't post misinformation and I won't have anything to address with additional posts.

So if we're all in agreement lets look forward to those objective results coming from both customers and mbw vendor and of course welcoming ARH & Nick to the board. The wealth of info he brings would be welcome on any website, at least IMHO.

bhamg

When I logged in just now googleanalytics informed me that 97.2% of members don't give a **** about why MHP was banned from this site.

ShellURT

Excellent relevant and factual info, thank you.

Guilty

STFU and go milk some cows, I'm tired of reading your crap.

Swrbxxx

I have been following this thread, and am in the market for some headers.

Based on everything I have read, MBH will be getting my business.
ShellURT, you seriously lost MHP a customer.

MBH motorsports

Yes we use welding rod when TIG welding, as seen below



Here are our results.



Since you asked for the picture here they are

Leaking



Had to fix this



Had to reface the flange to fix this from leaking



More of the ill fitting slip collector



First pass results after refacing/leveling the warped flange. Still showing signs of an exhaust leak. It took some work to get it level. How do I know this? I was the one doing the refacing on the headers.



Can we move on please, I got a sick lady at home and I care to spend my nights with her. Rather than defending my business and products.

ShellURT

Good stuff.

That's the beauty of free will at the end of the day it's your choice to make: If you want a Kia, you're at Georgia Tech. Best of luck.

Sorry I loved that speech.

ShellURT

Never said you didn't use 316 rod Mike.


So you've got a collector damaged in shipping (why was there not a shipping claim filed or something filed with MHP?), a leaking slip fit collector (all Gen 2s are welded on to eliminate the potential for this) with no documentation of making MHP aware or giving them a chance to replace the unit nor do I see any exhaust blackening around the area supposedly leaking--were these headers given time to heat cycle? A: No they weren't or the primarys would be purpled. All slip fits need to heat cycle before sealing completely. Last a flange that wasn't properly installed, there is an order to torquing the exhaust studs down to eliminate the potential for this from happening. Ok...

This still doesn't address the design faults of non parallel cut and welds (cheater bends) and the deficiencies of a TriY design.

I'm not thrilled to be on the net right now anymore than you are but that was really a lackluster display of MHPs "wrongs." The pics also prove that MHPs headers have perfectly parallel cut and welds, and that their weld quality is second to none.

If you permit me to repost images of your headers I'll point out the flaws I've been talking about. Fair is fair right?

MBH motorsports

How would you know that a claim was not made if you are not Andy or MHP? in the 8 minutes since your last post you had time to "find this info out" Meaning make a phone call to Andy gather your thoughts and type the above post out? In 8 minutes

It's total BS. Knowing every detail of a company right down to if something was claimed damaged or not in shipping Is something only Andy would know.

This is further proof that you are either Andy, An employee of MHP, or Andy uses a friends account to post under the user name ShellURT. If a phone call was made to variety who you are you just direct the call to a friend who is on your scheme.