chris135b

So, had to go to Pepboys (New York City) to pick up some items. I went back to look at the oil prices as this tread intrigued me. Saw that the 0W40 was $9.29/Qt and the 5W40 was $12.79/Qt. The 5Qt 0W40 was $40.95. Are these the prices most are seeing (outside of Walmart)? $12.79/Qt is rather insane!

-C

nielsll

Why would anyone think that they know more about the oil spec requirements of the M156 engine than the Mercedes Benz engineers? They know about every issue. The valve train, the head bolts, everything. They changed from 0-40 to 5-40 for a reason. They specified the 80 deg C requirement for a reason. They specified only 5-40 weight oil for the M156 at 229.51spec for a reason. Why would anyone think they know more about this issue than the MB engineers?

Do your own thing at your own peril and don't ***** about the cost when you pop an engine.

I use Valvoline 5-40 (229.51 spec) and add ZddPlus. ARP studs, SLS buckets, and adhere to the 80deg C. limit religiously in all my M156 Benzes.

mdgrwl

My manual states 0w40 or 5w40 is fine, straight from MB.

nielsll

Quote from the AMG Private Lounge:


Originally Posted by Tslick
After I picked up my car from a B service this week, I realized they put Mobil 1 5W40 oil (Q-1-09-0144) in it. Over at MBUSA's Startekinfo [ http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/ ] under MB Workshop Recourses, Recommended Fluids, PDF file dated June 5, 2008 states the only Mobil 1 oil for AMG’s is 0W40. The Mobil website states 5W40 is for diesel engines only.

The dealer produced a newschannel update dated Oct 12, 2007 from MBUSA stating that the oil (5W40) is recommended for AMG’s, along with all other gasoline engines (except SLR).

What is MBUSA AMG’s position on this subject. To me a newsletter (memo) is not a technical document.
Dear Tslick,

Thank you very much for your post. This occurs as the automotive fluid standards have changed in the meantime (in May 2008)

AMG recommends the use of the following oils:

- Mobil 1 5W-40 for M156 engine (63er models)
- Mobil 1 0W-40 all other AMG engines (as well the AMG diesel engines that was used for the C 30 AMG)
- Mobil 1 5W-50 SLR engine

Before that change, the Mobil 1 0W-40 was used for the 63 models as well.
We hope that this information helps.

Best regards
AMG Private Lounge Team

hansamg

I haven't read the labels yet, I doubt the Mobil 1 5-40 for gas engines is the same formula as the M1 5-40 for diesel. Additive package is vastly different in the past years between gas & diesel. I own 4 diesels and 10+ gasoline engines, my workshop looks like the Pep Boys lube aisle. I am sure any M156 can run M1 0-40 or 5-40. In older vehicles I even mix Mobil1 products. ie. Mobil 1 15-50 race still has the higher levels of Zinc & Phosphorus taken out of the "street" lubes. I'll mix a couple 15-50 with 10-30 or 10-40 in some of my older hardware.
More important here for the M156 is changing oil at 5-6000mi and not the 10k they state. How can it hurt ? ANd .... allow a couple minutes for warmup before driving briskly and allow the oil temp to leave the blue zone on the AMG gauge before really putting the pedal down.
FYI , my opinion on boutique race oils ie. Royal Purple Race : they are great lubes for racing and will produce 2-3 hp gains on the dyno and get the engine to the end of the race intact-maybe winning the race---- how do they do it ? DUnno , but I don't think that is the best lube for a daily driver that gets changed every 5-10,000mi and not every race. I always like a nice oil debate !

chris135b

Very interesting; thanks for the information. The 2014 C Sedan manual from the MBUSA website says the following (page 355 - edited):
=================
For a list of approved engine oils and oil filters, consult an authorized Mercedes-BenzCenter. Or visit the website http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com.

The table shows which engine oils have been approved for your vehicle.

Model Engine, Model, MB Approval

C63 AMG, 156, 229.5

Use only SAE 0W-40 or SAE 5W-40 engine oils for AMG vehicles.

iMB approval is indicated on the oil containers.
==================

Based on the document nielsll states, it clearly says that the 5W40 brand is not approved for AMG vehicles (page 4 in the .pdf): http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/9511/?requestedDocId=9511.

===================
MB-Approved Synthetic Engine Oil MB Sheet
Mobil 1 Formula 0W-40 Mobil 1 229.5
SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 229.5
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40*1 (Diesel only) 229.51

1 As of model year 2007 diesel engines must only use 229.51 approved engine oil. 229.51 is only approved for diesel engines.

* Not approved for use in AMG engines.
==================================

With all of this said, it looks like there needs to be some updating on the MB side on the recommended/required oil standards for the M156 engine. There is a contradiction in what specification oil needs to be used: manual and STAR Tekinfo states MB229.5; data from MBUSA AMG states MB229.51.

As to the pricing situation, price for oil is not a problem. I was just curious of the situation in other areas around the country/world. If the correct oil is $30/Qt, who cares? One needs to maintain the vehicle properly to ensure a long life. One part of that maintenance is proper oil used for the Oil Change Intervals.

nielsll

This statement and referenced document was a prior spec. That's when all hell broke loose on the top ends of many of the M156 engines. Then AMG changed to 5w40 and the 80 deg warm-up requirement for the M156 only.


Based on the document nielsll states, it clearly says that the 5W40 brands are not approved for AMG vehicles (page 4 in the .pdf): http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/o...stedDocId=9511.

MB-Approved Synthetic Engine Oil MB Sheet Mobil 1 Formula 0W-40 229.5 Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 229.5 Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30* 229.5 Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30* 229.5 Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30* 229.5 ELF Excellium 229.5 5W-30* 229.5 Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40*1 (Diesel only) 229.51 Valvoline SynPower MST 5W-30*1 (Diesel only) 229.51 ELF Solaris LSX 5W-30*1 (Diesel only) 229.51 1 As of model year 2007 diesel engines must only use 229.51 approved engine oil. 229.51 is only approved for diesel engines. * Not approved for use in AMG engines.

otakki

As with other oil threads in the past, this is confusing. There seems to be no definitive conclusion.

Ingenieur

so the 0W40 is approved and the 5W40 is not (for use in AMG vehicles)?

nielsll

No. Only 229.51 spec 5w40 oils are approved by MB for the M156.

I stand corrected by Ingenieur. His references are more current. So 0W40 and 5W40 are acceptable.

229.5 and 229.51 are both referenced.

Ingenieur

this is dated 2011 (after the date the change was supposedly made)
page 7
engine type 156 229.5
note 1 Restriction: only SAE 0W-40 or 5W-40 engine oils may be used.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...-g7xHL54yKhgvA

very confusing

this is dated Sept 2013
says the same thing
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

for the M 156 (and 133, 159) 229.5, .51 and .52
2.) Restriction: Only SAE 0W-40 und SAE 5W-40 engine oils are allowed !

a list of all fluids
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevoli...ets-sort1.html

mdgrwl

Why would my 2013 manual state both 0w40 &5w40 are "recommended"?

Ingenieur

I'm assuming this guy knows of what he speaks
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...81&postcount=4

William Vetter
Asst. Product Manager - AMG & Black Series
Exclusive Vehicles
Mercedes-Benz USA

Here is the official chart of required oil grades by engine back to around 2007...as you can see our approvals are based on our findings and in some cases do not coincide with API/ILSAC, etc...
...so this means that as long as the oil that you are putting in meets the specified viscosity on the chart, AND it has our Mercedes-Benz Approval Number listed for your engine printed on the label, you are covered...

However, it must be said that AMG does all of their development and only factory fills with Mobil One...


I take this as 0W40 or 5W40 is fine (note the date is after the 2007 new bulliten)

tfthach13

So essentially whatever is approved for 229.5 and 229.51?

blindfold

well it is another story here in Mainland China, the bottles of 0w-40 Mobil 1 comes in big barrels sourced from singapore (why singapore, i have no clue) and then packaged into individual single liter bottles after they hit Chinese shores. Being the market littered with counterfeits, oil is no exception, there also gray market quart bottles of walmart 0w-40 available too, but nobody knows exactly what's in the bottle since prices are sometimes below or close to $7 dollar price tag, so I assume if there are no profits there are no motivation.


Long story short, dealership sells this gold wrapped oil @ $40/Liter, yes you read correctly, and nobody knows if it is any better or worse than what is sold in gray bottles at walmart's, obviously local walmart does not sell USA spec mobil 1. One certain large influential mercedes dealer says all 6.3 V8 engines use Castrol 10w-60.

After overheating issues left and right, I finally found a way out. First to establish authenticity I went great length to check this distributor of Liqui Moly, and good news is they are legitimate. Then I used purple bottle Synthoil High Tech 5w-40 full synthetic on my 7speed auto C63 and another MCT c63. Temperatures seem very stable, no ill effects so far. On MCT temperatures used to get up to 270s (135C) and now remains in 250s (125C), another advantage is the amount of time it takes to get back down to 230 (110C) is much quicker than previously filled with 0w-40. So out of those two outcomes, I cannot draw the conclusion that liqui moly is better, but i can say it is no worse than what is available here in the local market. One piece of mind is that I know the oil is authentic.

On the side note, why is MCT running way hotter than 7speed auto? Is the tranny cooler tied into the oil cooler somehow? It seems the passenger side cooler fan is ON almost all the time and the high pitched fan sound is not exactly pleasant. If the transmission fluid is tied into the oil cooler, does anyone know how so? Not sure if its two mini coolers running side by side or is it layered together so both oil and tranny fluid is running in adjacent/parallel tubes? Looking forward to solve the MCT high oil temperature problem, I think I've read someone has already done the black series oil cooler on a MCT coupe (cannot recall clearly) but not sure if it will work on sedans, seems quite a bit of OEM parts need to be sourced and thinking going custom ducts with a fluidyne cooler... most challenging would be getting the fittings correctly if they are not standard fittings but rather similar to that custom fitting Weistec made for PCV valve... any ideas would be appreciated.

Diabolis

Going by your own logic, why are you then adding ZDD Plus? Mobil 1 oils already have some of the highest Zn and P concentrations, and adding too much Zn has been known to actually result in catastrophic camshaft failures (it attacks the surfaces instead of protecting them) and coats your cats making them less effective (some of us still have to pass emissions testing). Not exactly what the MB engineers recommended then, is it?

Diabolis

Incorrect. 229.51 is the diesel-spec oil and supersedes 229.31. 229.5 is the gasoline-spec oil and supersedes 229.3. 229.51 does NOT supersede 229.5.

Mort

According to this chart both the 229.5, 229.51 and 229.52 apply to the M156 motor with note (2): Resriction: Only SAE 0W-40 and SAE 5W-40 engine oils are allowed!

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

This chart is dated 09/2013.

Diabolis

That's right - and now that I've reread my post I realize that it's somewhat confusing. I was disagreeing with the "ONLY 229.51 oils are approved" statement. Mobil 1 0W40 is a 229.5 spec oil, while the Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W40 is a 229.51. BOTH are approved in the M156 subject to viscosity requirements.

mdgrwl

Does anyone know for sure what the factory fill is on the newer 2012/2013 c63 ? I would like to buy a few qts to top off.

Diabolis

I wasn't there to see with my own eyes what they were actually filing up the car with at the factory when it was made, but my dealer (largest AMG Performance Center in Canada) tells me it's Mobil 1 Formula M 5W40 for sure. They even sold me a bottle of it in case I need to top it off at the track.

mdgrwl

^ Funny, I just called my local dealership (Prestige Mercedes) in the US and they said factory fill is 0W40. Guess we'll never know for sure...

Diabolis

If it eases your dilemma, the Mobil1 0W40 is IMHO a better oil for the M156 motor (it has a better additive package and is thinner when cold) so that's what I'd be using - or, rather, will be using in a month or two when I dump the mysterious factory fill oil.

EDIT: It's also the only oil that was approved for the M157 (SLS) and the x65 (V12 biturbo) engines.

mdgrwl

Yes sir - I have 21 new/unopened quarts of Mobil1 0w40 from my previous car - I'm glad I can use them in the C63

Ingenieur

according to MB any 229.5, .51 0r .52 is OK as long as it is 0W40 or 5W40
this is directly from MB
I posted the chart