Any Hand Gun Enthusiasts / Collectors Among Us?
10-23-2013, 10:08 PM
#26
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Vivid Racing '09 C63 AMG
10-24-2013, 03:02 AM
#27
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I love guns and rifles.. however we can't have them here in Brunei.. Although have had my fair share of rounds in the shooting ranges of Dubai, Philippines and the Australian outback (hunting).
10-24-2013, 07:46 PM
#29
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Even someone hopped up on drugs? If I shoot someone I don't want them to be able to say anything. Ever again. Personal preference but I'll stick with .45
10-24-2013, 07:47 PM
#30
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10-24-2013, 07:51 PM
#31
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My sentiments exactly! I don't want to have to worry about 2 cm to the left or right of a kill shot. With a .45 you could damn near take someone out with a limb shot. I personally like my odds a lot better with a .45!
10-24-2013, 08:07 PM
#32
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Vivid Racing '09 C63 AMG
I figure if I'm full of adrenaline and possibly clumsy, I'd rather have higher capacity so I opted for the 9mm with high cap mags. Plus 9mm rounds are cheaper by the 1000s.
10-24-2013, 08:38 PM
#33
shot placement is the key
a miss with a 45 is the same as a miss with a 9
a hit in the Com with either will do the same
people have been hit with shotgun, 223 and 308 and survive
that is why you have more than 1 bullet and can deliver them in < 1/2 sec
been training with police and military since 1978, my first GI sidearm was a 1911A1
10-24-2013, 08:42 PM
#34
2 cm will not make a difference 9 vs 45
actually a HV 9 will deliver more 'shock' than a 45
it will expand much more violently
again, no one shot twice CoM with a goo 9 mm will 'enjoy' it
10-24-2013, 08:46 PM
#35
most people can't master the manual of arms for a SA 45 (owner frequently shoot themselves or others by accident)
my gun is idiot proof
squeeze, pull trigger
pull trigger then squeeze
both at the same time
bang!!!
instinctive pointing
I've been thru at least 5 job related schools and 4 private (Gunsite) for defensive/offensive sidearms, many instructors use the 9
in fact JMB's last design was the HiPower, an improvement on the 45
people who focus on caliber are missing the point, the hardware is <10% of a gunfight, give me a Ranger with a 22 > a self proclaimed expert with a bazooka any day, lol
10-24-2013, 08:48 PM
#36
10-24-2013, 09:31 PM
#37
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the SAS, SBSm GSG8, GIGN, Israeli's, FBI, USSS, SeALs, 1st SF op det D, etc., all carry 9's as their sidearm
2 cm will not make a difference 9 vs 45
actually a HV 9 will deliver more 'shock' than a 45
it will expand much more violently
again, no one shot twice CoM with a goo 9 mm will 'enjoy' it
2 cm will not make a difference 9 vs 45
actually a HV 9 will deliver more 'shock' than a 45
it will expand much more violently
again, no one shot twice CoM with a goo 9 mm will 'enjoy' it
10-24-2013, 09:49 PM
#38
My SPECWAR friends prefer .45. 9 mm is used for cost, magazine capacity, and ease of use for females and smaller individuals qualifying. In your case it probably also aids in weight and concealment. Agreed that shot placement is key. Glad you're a proponent of the 2nd amendment and it sounds like you have done some research. 9mm, .45, .22...the biggest factor in killing someone (and not the wrong person) is making sure your bullets hit their intended targets.
I served, I know, and the guys I worked with preferred the gun they had
with a 9 you can carry more ammo, it is universally available, and for all intent and purpose will stop a man the same
there is no real cost difference, and depending on load, recoil is the same, it is more sharp in a 9 since the gun is lighter
if you look at any study, theoretical or statistical, hatcher, marshall, etc.
it's the shooter, not the gun
failure to stop, 45 vs 9, the same
1 shot stops, the same, as long as the ammo is optimized
most of the caliber stuff is armchair commando crap
the 40 may be the best, but differences are so small, again, a veeeery small part of the whole system
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
standard SeAL sidearm, Sig 226 9 mm, they could have ANY sidearm they desired
Last edited by Ingenieur; 10-24-2013 at 09:54 PM.
10-24-2013, 11:32 PM
#39
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Well ingenieur it would appear at first glance that you had a wealth of knowledge in this field but everything you have said and the bar graphs you have posted and the "they were dead" comments all lead me to believe you drink your own cool aid!
The human body and the body of a deer work, for the most part, exactly the same. Having said that, a lung shot from a 223 or small caliber weapon has led many camo/orange suited men on miles of travel in the search of specs of blood. Whereas a lung shot from a 44magnum with far more knock down power will drop a dear in its tracks! There is no question that a blow from a larger caliper weapon is more deadly. I know all of this first hand with real world experience in dozens of cases.
More lead, more mushroom, larger area of destruction, creates quicker, if not immediate bleed outs if the slug isn't a direct kill shot.
For these reasons, I discredit almost everything you say.
The human body and the body of a deer work, for the most part, exactly the same. Having said that, a lung shot from a 223 or small caliber weapon has led many camo/orange suited men on miles of travel in the search of specs of blood. Whereas a lung shot from a 44magnum with far more knock down power will drop a dear in its tracks! There is no question that a blow from a larger caliper weapon is more deadly. I know all of this first hand with real world experience in dozens of cases.
More lead, more mushroom, larger area of destruction, creates quicker, if not immediate bleed outs if the slug isn't a direct kill shot.
For these reasons, I discredit almost everything you say.
Last edited by Autosport7; 10-24-2013 at 11:37 PM.
10-24-2013, 11:44 PM
#40
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I am a man that bases a view point on real world experience and visuals, not bar graphs or simulations.
Last edited by Autosport7; 10-24-2013 at 11:48 PM.
10-25-2013, 12:52 AM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
specwar 'friends', lol
I served, I know, and the guys I worked with preferred the gun they had
with a 9 you can carry more ammo, it is universally available, and for all intent and purpose will stop a man the same
there is no real cost difference, and depending on load, recoil is the same, it is more sharp in a 9 since the gun is lighter
if you look at any study, theoretical or statistical, hatcher, marshall, etc.
it's the shooter, not the gun
failure to stop, 45 vs 9, the same
1 shot stops, the same, as long as the ammo is optimized
most of the caliber stuff is armchair commando crap
the 40 may be the best, but differences are so small, again, a veeeery small part of the whole system
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
standard SeAL sidearm, Sig 226 9 mm, they could have ANY sidearm they desired
I served, I know, and the guys I worked with preferred the gun they had
with a 9 you can carry more ammo, it is universally available, and for all intent and purpose will stop a man the same
there is no real cost difference, and depending on load, recoil is the same, it is more sharp in a 9 since the gun is lighter
if you look at any study, theoretical or statistical, hatcher, marshall, etc.
it's the shooter, not the gun
failure to stop, 45 vs 9, the same
1 shot stops, the same, as long as the ammo is optimized
most of the caliber stuff is armchair commando crap
the 40 may be the best, but differences are so small, again, a veeeery small part of the whole system
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
standard SeAL sidearm, Sig 226 9 mm, they could have ANY sidearm they desired
10-25-2013, 10:32 AM
#45
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ML 500, Audi A4 3.0
Didn't realize we were naming rifles too. My SHTF is a Franklin Armory billet AR-15 style 223/556 with a Spectre DR 1-4x (love it). . 308 chambered DPMS SASS. Frunche (SP) over under shotgun, and my son has an MP15/22. We also bow hunt 
Last edited by quadexhaust; 10-25-2013 at 05:45 PM.
10-25-2013, 12:03 PM
#47
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Thank you for your service to this country. And yes...FRIENDS. I am currently serving, a graduate of the US Naval Academy and fly F-18s so yes, I have friends that are operators and have socialized with many operators in many ports of call. I have even provided armed overwatch and close air support for them. And in my day to day job my current ammo of choice is 20 mm HEI.
10-25-2013, 12:15 PM
#48
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10-25-2013, 01:41 PM
#49
well I wish I could say it appears you know of what you speak, but it is obvious you do not, not an inkling
although the body of a man and deer may be similar (mass aside) their minds are not...a man will know what happened to him when shot, a deer will not, a deer will flee, a man may stand and fight to live
I have hunted since I was 12 years old, lived in the bush in AK for 10 years and took: moose, elk, bear (brown) and a few others...
if you believe a 44 mag has more stopping power than a 223 HP logic will not work with you...keep drinking that kool-aid you are espousing
those 'graphs and charts' are based on shooting gotas and actual emergency room and police records, not some internet guy saying a 44 will do more damage thana 223 for criminy sakes, lol
are you a coroner? a forensic patholigist? work for the Army doing wound damage assessments? your ancedotal hogwash is just that..by your logic a 38 short will do more damage than a 223 since it is a bigger diameter and will 'mushroom' larger
just because you discredit what I say does not make it wrong, it implies you do not understand
although the body of a man and deer may be similar (mass aside) their minds are not...a man will know what happened to him when shot, a deer will not, a deer will flee, a man may stand and fight to live
I have hunted since I was 12 years old, lived in the bush in AK for 10 years and took: moose, elk, bear (brown) and a few others...
if you believe a 44 mag has more stopping power than a 223 HP logic will not work with you...keep drinking that kool-aid you are espousing
those 'graphs and charts' are based on shooting gotas and actual emergency room and police records, not some internet guy saying a 44 will do more damage thana 223 for criminy sakes, lol
are you a coroner? a forensic patholigist? work for the Army doing wound damage assessments? your ancedotal hogwash is just that..by your logic a 38 short will do more damage than a 223 since it is a bigger diameter and will 'mushroom' larger
just because you discredit what I say does not make it wrong, it implies you do not understand
Well ingenieur it would appear at first glance that you had a wealth of knowledge in this field but everything you have said and the bar graphs you have posted and the "they were dead" comments all lead me to believe you drink your own cool aid!
The human body and the body of a deer work, for the most part, exactly the same. Having said that, a lung shot from a 223 or small caliber weapon has led many camo/orange suited men on miles of travel in the search of specs of blood. Whereas a lung shot from a 44magnum with far more knock down power will drop a dear in its tracks! There is no question that a blow from a larger caliper weapon is more deadly. I know all of this first hand with real world experience in dozens of cases.
More lead, more mushroom, larger area of destruction, creates quicker, if not immediate bleed outs if the slug isn't a direct kill shot.
For these reasons, I discredit almost everything you say.
The human body and the body of a deer work, for the most part, exactly the same. Having said that, a lung shot from a 223 or small caliber weapon has led many camo/orange suited men on miles of travel in the search of specs of blood. Whereas a lung shot from a 44magnum with far more knock down power will drop a dear in its tracks! There is no question that a blow from a larger caliper weapon is more deadly. I know all of this first hand with real world experience in dozens of cases.
More lead, more mushroom, larger area of destruction, creates quicker, if not immediate bleed outs if the slug isn't a direct kill shot.
For these reasons, I discredit almost everything you say.
10-25-2013, 01:41 PM
#50
I own 100ish rifles and handguns. I've fired more weapons than I can remember ranging from MK19 40mm grenade launcher to a German PZB. I've always loved the 1911 style pistol. I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry (3" barrel) every day and I have 10000+ rounds through it. It has never had a malfunction and I can hit a bowling pin at 50 yards with it. John Browning really did an amazing job with the 1911 and his Hi Power. For a weapon thats 100+ years old the Marine Corps still picked it to be a service weapon for the MEUSOC.
