Somehow, shouting matches seem more common on the C63 side than, say, E63 or CLS63 side.

Like I have always said--If you can't afford to properly maintain something, you can't really afford it in the first place. With that said, I would still rather find a reputable indy shop than go to the stealership. At a stealership, it can be a newbie apprentice working on your car, whereas an experienced mechanic is most likely the one doing it at a good indy shop. In addition, the cost will always be less than the stealership

 

how much does your dealership usually charge per hour? ive seen some guys $100? the one in my city is $65..is that pretty reasonable? to have my entire intake manifold replaced was only $130 in labor and it was about a 2ish hour job, just curious what others are charging...and if it's more...why is each dealership different? are they owned by different people or something?

 

I have no idea since I have never gone to the dealership aside from things that are warranty related.

Dealerships are mostly privately owned and operated aside from the MB of ?Manhattan, which is the only one in the US operated by MBUSA. Thus it's worthwhile to call around for hourly charges.

 

Holy cow... a MB dealer charges $65 per hour? Canadian $ is 0.95 US and here they're in the $140-$150 per hour range. And here I am jumping to their defence saying they don't overcharge...

 

Yeah i know i was kinda shocked too..but yeah $65 an hour but there also the only MB dealership in my city so maybe that's why they aren't charging through the roof? Theres like a "MB" tech shop down the street from them but it looks dumpy as hell

 

I stopped reading by the 3rd page because it got so off topic...

but to the OP,

If you haven't done the brakes yet let us know... we can do the porterfield R4S' for $600 installed OTD.

 

Okay, two things I need to jump in and clarify here. First of all, ceramic pads do not "generate" more heat than semi-metallic or organic pads. The amount of heat generated in the braking process has everything to do with the conversion of kinetic energy in the car to heat. The pads and rotors are merely the means to do so (the amount of heat stored in the pads and rotors is a consequence of the energy conversion, not a cause of it).

All pads will absorb the same amount of heat; the difference in how they perform is in how well they can maintain their coefficient of friction throughout the range of heat being absorbed by them. Ceramic pads will maintain their CoF throughout a greater temperature range.

Ultimately though, it's the rotors that absorb (and shed) heat moreso than the pads. The key for pads is how they maintain the CoF across the temp range.

But, this now leads to the second point below....

Unfortunately, this is one of the longest standing myths surrounding P-cars for ages. In fact, on CC.com we had a long standing bet that paid at least $250 to ANYONE who could prove that Porsche rotors were in fact, cast-in holes (I'll dig up the picture from Zimmerman's that actually shows the CNC drill poised over top of a blank 930 rotor.

That being said, the holes WERE pre-dimpled in the casting process, so the drill was effectively finishing the process, and not a complete drill through. So one could say they are both cast AND drilled.

As to the heat being absorbed by the rotor vs pad and calliper, well, that's the major function of the rotor. It's a giant heat-sink....you want the heat in the rotor, not necessarily the calliper.

Up to a certain temp, the rotors actually function better (we used to have to block off the brake cooling ducts on our race cars on cool days because the rotors wouldn't get up to proper temp).

As to all of the financial discussions, well, those are interesting, but I'll stay away. I'm of the notion that in order to afford the car, you have to be able to afford the maintenance as well. That being said, it's everyone's right to complain about the price.

But I'm also the guy who enjoys doing his own maintenance....it's a nice way to spend an afternoon in the sun (or garage), beer in hand.



Patrick

 

Damn this thread into nonsense quick. Arguing about money made, suits, to eating beans...all over a guy that just wanted a brake job done for a reasonable cost. WTF?

Simple..take the damn car to a good indy, done. Why do so many of these threads turn into shouting matches about money, affordability and posing? Who the hell cares what you make a year? Get your damn car fixed, be safe, and get the best price possible with quality parts.

Perhaps I should trick or treat and get back in touch with my child hood, people are getting to tight in the drawls around here.

 

You are correct about the total amount of heat generated - my bad for being inexact. What I meant was that the ceramic pads do not conduct heat as well as the semi-metallic ones, so whatever heat is generated is now absorbed almost in its entirety by the rotor instead of a portion of it going through the pad and into the caliper. You may indeed be less likely to boil your brake fluid, but on a street car with no brake cooling ducts it has been known to result in rotor warping where the same wasn't evident with the OEM pads.

Regarding the CoF of ceramic pads, AFAIK they DO require higher temperature than organic compounds to achieve their optimal CoF (which they maintain to higher temperatures where the organics start to burn as you pointed out), but they have rather low initial bite when they're cold which is part of the problem especially if you live in Canada and need to do a panic stop when your rotors are at -25 degrees C (and no, I am not talking about the Pagid RS 19 ceramics I run at the track).

As for the cast-hole Zimmerman Porsche rotors, I stand corrected if they're not completely drilled but rather partially dimpled when they come out of the mold and then machine finished, but the fact is that they tend to crack less than aftermarket cross-drilled rotors. This is both my personal experience from spending many hours at the track and speaking with other track junkies, and my P car mechanic that routinely sees a lot of track cars go through his shop. Perhaps it is not the casting/drilling but rather chamfering the edges of the holes themselves, and of course the Porsche rotors also crack, but somehow they do seem to be able to stand up better to hard use. That is not a myth. Again, I am not comparing them to AP Racing or Wilwood rotors, only to the cheaper aftermarket replacements.

We can easily get caught up with the technicalities, but for the purpose of this thread (or at least where it went) my point was and still is that you usually get what you pay for. Period.

Time for me to lay off the MB board for a while.

Cheers to all,
Doug

 

In no universe is a brake job worth nearly 10% the price of the car. $6K is more than the cost of doing one brake set on a private jet. Don't be a douche about being Cheap. Dealer maint. for any car is notoriously a rip off.

 

Not sure what universe you live in, but in this one a loaded C63 costs ~$90K CAD by the time you get it out of the door. A full brake job is $5K CAD because of the compound front rotors. A Canadian dollar is about 0.95 US so I hope that gives you an idea of the percentages. Still a bargain compared to the $20K+ for PCCB brakes on a Porsche GT3.

As for the brake set on a private jet, a brake assembly on one of my clients' Lears is about $6K per assembly (not including labour or a core exchange charge) and there are four of them. The whole job is upwards of $35K. Don't ask how or why I know.

Don't be a douche yourself. You're exactly the kind of person that is so far out of touch with reality that you completely freak out the very moment your head pops out of your a$$ and that I am *****ing about here. Feel free to maintain your own car, but please don't complain about the running costs if you choose to buy this particular car in the first place. It's not your Subaru.

 

Sorry to wind you up dude. Good burn on the Subaru though. Tough day. My apologies. I'll be in Toronto Monday. How about a beer.

 

No offence taken. Diplomacy was never my strong suit so I usually dish it out the way it comes in. Tough day indeed - it's 9:30 PM and I am still working at the office. At least I didn't have to deal with the trick-or-treaters. My apologies to you as well.
PM me if you're in Toronto on Monday and we'll have a beer or two and shoot the crap about our cars. I'm buying.
Cheers,
Doug

 

damn this place is starting to remind of the supraforums lol. bunch of honda owners grew up and bought supras lol. lots of offtopic here. I dont think the brake qoute is out of line at all. You've got to pay to play this isnt a cheap car and neither are the parts. Sure they can be had for cheaper but dealer markup on some parts isnt always outrageos. I can get cost + 10% and it still hurts my wallet. Im living above my means but i cant help it. I love this car. Cant wait till all the 3rd and 4th hand owners get ahold of these cars and they've depreciated into the 20-30k$ price range, like sl65's are creeping into. parts for 200k$ cars are not cheap at all.

 

you sound really busy posting on MBW. No offense intended...

 

hey man thats his smoke break

 

No way a full brake job is $5k. Go buy your genuine merc parts at oediscountparts.com and bring them to Charlie McNally. Parts are ~$1,000 - labour less than $500. I'm not sure how you get to $5,000.

Edit: I guess $5k is doable at a dealership (MB Downtown?) - but why do that to yourself?

 

I am procrastinating.

 

Even there the front rotors alone are US $1600. You're looking at the regular C63, not the P31 package. By the time you add labour and taxes the total is over $5K.

Here in Canada last year the front rotors were CAD $1700 *EACH* and a full brake job was north of $6500 after tax. That's how you get there.

P.S. Scratch the first part - I though you were talking about the US site. The one you mentioned doesn't even list them and all rotors that come up for the C63 are for a 4matic. How very interesting .

 

You are right ... I was looking at the regular C63.

For what its worth, I am in Canada and buy my parts at the website noted - and just have my indy install them. I only take my car to Merc for warranty work. I have been a merc owner for the last 14 years.

I would rather pay $1600 for P31 rotors than $1700CAD each at a Corporate Merc dealer in Toronto.

If you think you are getting ~$5,000 more value doing your P31 brake job at the dealer here, I guess that's your choice.

 

No, I am not that delusional (yet), but I figure you can maybe save $1K by going to an indie shop when the time comes to do them. Come to think of it, I just might get some well-engineered aftermarket (perish the thought) 2-piece rotors like the RB open slot and do them myself when the time comes to part with my own cash. It's easy for me to sit here and give advice to everyone else to spend their money at the dealer.

Seriously though - although I can easily change them myself, I need to get the parts form somewhere, book hoist time at my mechanics' shop, drive there and back, consume all the obligatory beverages and of course do the wrenching. Seeing as I am starting to get lazy in my advanced 44 years, I drive relatively little (3700 km on the C in ten months) and I have the P car for the track, at this rate it will most likely end up going to the dealer for new brakes sometime in 2023.

If I was shredding the brakes on regular basis, I would look into higher performance options like the RBs. I get to trash MB Canada's C63 and other AMG cars on Wednesday in Vegas without having to worry about the financial consequences though, so you never know what might happen. I just might fall in love with it and end up using my own C63 as a track beast, in which case I'll probably be asking here where I can get cheap brakes.

 

I've been buying merc parts stateside and having them installed at a local indy for as many years as I can remember... not because I am cheap, but because I see no value in using MB Downtown or MB Thornhill after I have first hand seen them thrash an older E500 and an ML63. I don't touch any of my cars myself except to change air filters and batteries.

My C63 has 18,000km and MB would not replace the brakes under warranty for excessive squeal as I was 1 month over the time limit (2 years and 1 month when I brought it in) ... so instead of fighting with Mr. Spath, I purchased a full set of brakes at the noted website and had McNally (look him up - ex MB tech) install them. I think my total cost was less than $1,500 (hence my original post). I would be happy to help you get the parts and do the same (i.e., have them shipped to a freight forwarder and then reship them to you in Toronto) when the time comes.

All that being said... I'm pretty sure you are saving more than $1k doing it at a reputable indy. I do see your point though, if the savings are only about $1k it might make more sense to just drop it off at MB to have them do it - you know for sure you are getting OEM parts and their techs will warranty their work (and by warranty I mean they will let you waste your time bringing in your vehicle multiple times when they can't figure out how to fix something, like the 4 different washer fluid reservoirs I had on a GLK, all installed improperly).

... oh, and please ignore my terrible grammar. I am jet lagged in Sydney

 

Just checked oediscountparts.com for C63 rotors, and they list the front rotors as $663.75 each. So just over $1300 (USD) for a front set; $180 each for the rears.

Is it $1600 EACH at the dealer, or $1600 / set? For a set I'd be okay with that, as you can safely assume that the dealer is using genuine MB parts.

Those rotors are listed as P31 Perf Pkg (it even says "red calipers" in the listing).

Non-P31 packages have front rotors of $120 each. I'm happy to do my own wrenching, so a complete brake job at all four corners for under $2K is reasonable (providing of course, that they are truly OEM rotors and not knock-offs.

So if someone is getting brakes done completely at the dealer for $2500, I'd say that's a smoking deal. It shouldn't be more than $500 in labour to swap brakes (even at $150 / hour).

$5K or $6K for brakes at the dealer seems high, even if I'm solidly in the camp that says expensive cars are generally expensive to maintain (though I also don't think the C63 is a terribly expensive car).

OT: I'm up for a beer Monday after work downtown TO as well.



Patrick