mr747

I've never heard so much garbage ever
If you drive one of these cars like a grandma it will become a lemon plain and simple

m a x i m u s

lol. no need to drive this car like a grandma, even if you are a grandma!

Thor2j

Speaking of garbage, you can't tell me that u think the engine will last longer by bouncing off the Rev limiter all the time. Point was if u hammer it all the time the engine will not last as long if u didn't. It's called internal stress.

mr747

No body knows how long these engines last

But why buy a amg for to drive like a *****
These engines are high performance engines they were built for one reason

You should of brought a c180 or c250 if you wanted to drive slow

Thor2j

Wow, do u read the other posts at all? Someone else said the tune is going to shorten the life span, and my point was driving it easy will help it's life to. But this isn't what the car is made for so please read.

Vise_

This thread is great, two thumbs up.

roadtalontsi

when you find an engine failure from an internal component from driving it too hard and not outside influence let me know.

Thor2j

So you don't believe higher rpms results in piston rings, cylinders, bearings, etc wearing out faster??

mr747

And driving slow clogs everything and you gain carbon build up and so on

mr747

And Thor just letting you know road has a supercharged c63 with 15000miles or so and his had no issues

I'm sure your not going to keep your car till 200000kms

Diabolis

I said the tune is going to shorten the engine life span, but I agree with roadtalontsi that driving the engine "hard" (assuming it has properly warmed up and has the proper oil) is not going to shorten the life span and in fact the opposite may be true.

If you drive your car like a grandmother, you're more prone to get carbon buildup as a result. The carbon acts like a thermal insulator and you create hotspots in the combustion chamber, which in turn can cause detonation and pre-ignition. Regularly revving the engine through the entire RPM range on the other hand helps in preventing carbon buildup, so it that sense a properly exercised motor is less likely to suffer from carbon buildup than one that rarely revs past 2500 rpm. Furthermore, all other things being equal, detonation occurs more readily at lower RPMs because of the slower burn rate (longer burn time) of the mixture, and increasing the engine RPMs under the same conditions would eliminate detonation. So yeah, driving like a grandma is going to be worse for the car than driving it like you stole it.

The problem with tunes is that the vast majority of them simply alter the ignition timing and the AFR (varying the throttle response BTW does nothing for increasing actual engine power, only how much power is being delivered at a particular position of the pedal). By trying to get that extra 10 hp out of the motor, you either have to lean the mixture or advance the timing, and with the garbage that sometimes passes for gas these days, you really are taking a chance even with just a "91 octane" tune. You may be getting mild detonation in only one cylinder for example, which even the knock sensors may not be able to always pick up and the engine can go on for thousands of kilometers before you realize that you've had excessive particle wear for a long time and that the internal engine bits are worn.

It's all chemistry and physics and there is no magic formula. As I've said before, I've tuned my own 928s, built, blown up and rebuilt motors (not all by myself of course but under the guidance of a race engine builder that knows a lot more about them than I do) and I have yet to see how a tune on its own for a properly designed and optimized motor - and MB/AMG is certainly among the top in terms of their knowledge and R&D investment - can give you anything without sacrificing something else like the small margin of error (allowing for crappy gas for example) or reliability.

Thor2j

The majority of the hp increase on the tune of the std c63 comes from the throttle body being restricted at higher rpms.

Diabolis

On the non-P31 cars, yes.

roadtalontsi

bearings - no they should never wear out they are hydrualic - the only way these are damaged is by oiling issues. be it starvation or contamination. rings and cylinder walls - these are going to wear out over time sure, but with the newer nano technology anti friction coatings and preparation put on the cylinder walls you can still clearly see cross hatching and little to no distortion at 100k miles in the block. these motors are stout. Keys to survival are - regular oil changes/maint. use good premium gas not cheap costco/kroger crap that saves you 3cents a gallon. make sure the car is warmed up before you go ******* on it. Avoid little 2 minute drives as the car never gets up to operating temp - this is where you get carbon/fouling problems. This why its good to go give it hell every so often and clear it out. If you modify it spend the money to get it done right. Trust me the rest of the car will fall apart long before the engine. Ive driven blown e55's poorly maintained with 150k+ that run better than ones with 20k because they are grandma'd to church and the grocery store once a week.

im at 26k now, around 15k of it with the blower.

TTA850

I think you mean a bad tune will shorten engine life, and it will. But I can't see how a tune that does not cause detonation or preignition, does not run too lean or too rich, and does not run egt's through the roof will shorten engine life. It's those factors that shorten engine life. Of course in many instances a factory tune will shorten engine life verses a proper tune. Early LS1 cars had that problem, and in my experience can use a few degrees of timing removed to run at their best. We might want to believe that the factory tune is the best but remember performance is nowhere near the highest priority for auto manufacturers rather fuel economy claims, emissions regulations, and making the warrenty period are the goal. And generally have to be maintained for at least the current model year, it's why you see several flash fixes come out the year following manufacture.

I do agree with dealing with problems a tune may have created, I am however always concerned that the dealer would try to deny a claim based on the tune regardless of the tune having caused the problem or not. When my car was bone stock and under 3k miles the driveshaft twisted and snapped at the hanger bearing, the first things they asked was about a tune and abuse and that's what bothers me because looking to get out of their responsibility seemed to be the first concern.

WhyAskWhy

So what did the dealer say? Did they diagnose the tranny issue? Did they find the ECU tune and claim that the tranny issue was caused by the tune?

roadtalontsi

haha, 3 pages of b.s. arguing and no responses on what was wrong with it. How typical. He must of driven the car too hard and the transmission wore out maybe he got one of those magic 1 extra qt pans installed and it fixed itself.

yzhou

I did mine through my dealer from Renntech, they charged me 250 for label, and said it would not influence my warranty.

They told me Renn is kind of certificated by MB， I don't know if it's true.

Diabolis

Yeah... to think that I almost blew a gasket here and I don't even have the satisfaction of knowing whether it was in any way warranted...

Diabolis

Are you saying that your Mercedes dealer put a Renntech tune on your C63 for $250?

yzhou

Labor 250 total 2500

roadtalontsi

not true at all, no aftermarket modifications are "certified by mb". It's not like bmw and dinan. because AMG is the dinan to mercedes. the factory warranty will cover everything unless it's from a consequence/failure from the tune, like a melted piston etc... chances are very unlikely as renntech are kind of softies and very conservative.

Diabolis

That's what I was trying to get at... a MB dealer installing aftermarket modifications doesn't sound very plausible, plus at $2.5K (not $250) it's not exactly a bargain either.

mercedes4ever

rory breaker

Misinformation here. AMG/Dinan 2 totally separate concepts.

Renntech can be warrantied, it's just not by MB itself, it's by the actual dealer who chooses to install and warranty aftermarket items from brand x, in this case Renntech. Most dealers opt not to do this because they need to have folks on staff who are trained to install and service these modifications, and they also are inviting further costs down the line. Usually not a profitable venture so most stay away.

It's totally plausible to have a "warrantied" Renntech car, it's just not by MB, it's by your dealer. Any standard items (window switch, AC stops working etc) would be covered by any dealer, but if you took your car to another dealer with a check engine light, they say the tune is the cause, they can deny the claim and send you back to the dealer who installed it.