Opinions needed on Headbolt replacement
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09 C63
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AMG GLC63. Audi R8
Thanks for your response Duane
I have 61,000 miles on the vehicle currently. I purchased it at about 59,000 miles. To my knowledge the dealership i purchased the vehicle from wasn't aware of the issue. But i do believe the Mercedes dealership that owned the vehicle before them did.
The sales rep told me the car was purchased from MBZ. I hadn't seen the carfax that i asked for.. my mistake. Later i found out they purchased from an auction in PA. Put there by a Mercedes dealer in PA.
I've read that MBZ will pay half of the cost to repair vehicles that have this issue. Is this something i should talk to my SA about or call corporate MBZ?
Also, I've seen a thread about lifters failing after getting the head repaired. Is this something they already replace or is that additional?
I have 61,000 miles on the vehicle currently. I purchased it at about 59,000 miles. To my knowledge the dealership i purchased the vehicle from wasn't aware of the issue. But i do believe the Mercedes dealership that owned the vehicle before them did.
The sales rep told me the car was purchased from MBZ. I hadn't seen the carfax that i asked for.. my mistake. Later i found out they purchased from an auction in PA. Put there by a Mercedes dealer in PA.
I've read that MBZ will pay half of the cost to repair vehicles that have this issue. Is this something i should talk to my SA about or call corporate MBZ?
Also, I've seen a thread about lifters failing after getting the head repaired. Is this something they already replace or is that additional?
A MBZ with less than 60,000 can be put through the MBZ CPO warranty program prior to sale. However not all cars qualify for this program (ie car that have been in serious accidents). For some reason the car you purchased did not qualify for a CPO warranty. (I'm assuming you bought it through a MBZ dealer close to you.) This raises a bit of a red flag. If the dealer promised you a Carfax prior to sale, but did not give you one, and the Carfax shows a service relating to coolant loss, then the dealer could be deemed to have had knowledge of the problem, putting the dealer on the hook. Additionally this problem is very easy to diagnose. They just over pressurize the coolant system overnight and check it in the morning.
MBZ has also paid up to half the cost of this repair in many cases. I would certainly ask your SA about this. Even if he turns you down, have the repairs done and then take the dealer to small claims court (no attorneys involved). Courts are favorable to consumers and generally do not hold car dealers in the highest regards. Given the facts, you may have some luck.
The service bulletin to fix the head bolt issue also includes newer designed lifters. While an engine with barely 60k on it would not normally need a valve job, you might seriously consider this (or even a complete top end rebuild. New cams, followers, guides, and value springs), as the labor cost to R/R the heads is already being paid for. Then you have a car with a completely new top end.
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09 C63
I purchased the vehicle from an independent dealer. It did not qualify for CPO.
The dealer told me to bring my car in next week because they dont have loaners.
Anyway, the best offer they could come up with was 10% from MBZ corporate and 10% from MBZ dealership discount on my repairs. They cant offer more because my car wasn't purchased from a MBZ dealer and I've only had it for less than two months. I told the rep no thanks.
The dealer told me to bring my car in next week because they dont have loaners.
Anyway, the best offer they could come up with was 10% from MBZ corporate and 10% from MBZ dealership discount on my repairs. They cant offer more because my car wasn't purchased from a MBZ dealer and I've only had it for less than two months. I told the rep no thanks.
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From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
I purchased the vehicle from an independent dealer. It did not qualify for CPO.
The dealer told me to bring my car in next week because they dont have loaners.
Anyway, the best offer they could come up with was 10% from MBZ corporate and 10% from MBZ dealership discount on my repairs. They cant offer more because my car wasn't purchased from a MBZ dealer and I've only had it for less than two months. I told the rep no thanks.
The dealer told me to bring my car in next week because they dont have loaners.
Anyway, the best offer they could come up with was 10% from MBZ corporate and 10% from MBZ dealership discount on my repairs. They cant offer more because my car wasn't purchased from a MBZ dealer and I've only had it for less than two months. I told the rep no thanks.
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09 C63
You'll have to explore your options with an independent that has done this work before and assume his all in price will be substantially lower than the 20% discount offered by MBZ. In the end you might find it better to take MBZ up on the offer, the repairs take about a week and get their free loaner car.
On my carfax it says in February there was a coolant system check. Then it went to MBZ of Pittsburgh in March/April then to an auction, then to the dealer that I purchased from. So I believe somewhere along the line they had to be aware of the issue. Maybe I can use this to my advantage.
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AMG GLC63. Audi R8
That's true. I just think their offer could be better than that. I would prefer the work be done at MBZ though. I'll try to negotiate more with the dealer.
On my carfax it says in February there was a coolant system check. Then it went to MBZ of Pittsburgh in March/April then to an auction, then to the dealer that I purchased from. So I believe somewhere along the line they had to be aware of the issue. Maybe I can use this to my advantage.
On my carfax it says in February there was a coolant system check. Then it went to MBZ of Pittsburgh in March/April then to an auction, then to the dealer that I purchased from. So I believe somewhere along the line they had to be aware of the issue. Maybe I can use this to my advantage.
Now you're getting somewhere. The carfax with the coolant system check is the smoking gun. The question is who is it pointed at. Since the car was bought at auction, it's an as is sale. MBZ is off most likely off the hook. However since the other non MBZ dealer sold it too you, did they have a carfax at the time of sale that was never provided to you even though you asked for it. The dealer has an affirmative obligation to disclose all known defects. Under the reasonable man theory, you would not have bought the car knowing the coolant issue is a major repair. Once again, courts will usually side with a consumer over a used car dealer. I have MBZ repair and file a claim against the selling dealer. If you state allows small claims filing under for claims of $5k or less, that's the was to go.
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09 C63
Now you're getting somewhere. The carfax with the coolant system check is the smoking gun. The question is who is it pointed at. Since the car was bought at auction, it's an as is sale. MBZ is off most likely off the hook. However since the other non MBZ dealer sold it too you, did they have a carfax at the time of sale that was never provided to you even though you asked for it. The dealer has an affirmative obligation to disclose all known defects. Under the reasonable man theory, you would not have bought the car knowing the coolant issue is a major repair. Once again, courts will usually side with a consumer over a used car dealer. I have MBZ repair and file a claim against the selling dealer. If you state allows small claims filing under for claims of $5k or less, that's the was to go.
Small claims court in Ohio handles cases up to $3,000.
I don't really understand the info on the carfax.
Last edited by Abs63; Sep 3, 2014 at 03:25 AM.
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From: Arizona
2011 C63
If I were going to replace head bolts I'd do one at a time. I would not loosen all the bolts first, that would most likely cause trouble. I really think the poster Merc63 understands all of this the best. For the person that said clamping load was not important, well that's all we cared about when choosing the number and size of fasteners for a mechanical design. I would just loosen one at a time and install the new bolt and fully tighten before loosening the next. I also wouldn't worry about any distortion, the heads are stiff enough to have just one head bolt loosened. Also since you just loosen one at a time, sequence makes no difference.
Last edited by glennhl; Aug 29, 2014 at 11:56 AM.
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07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
Glennhl, If you do the bolt exchange then personally would recommend that it be done the same as the bolt torque sequence, doing number 1 bolt then 2 and so forth in the torque seq, drain all coolant as the bolts are threaded into the coolant chambers on a few, some method of cleaning the thread passage is also recommended, compressed air, brake clean spray or some other cleaner to reduce the coolant sitting in the threads or the silicone sealer will not bind to the fastener thread and block.
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From: North East
2011 C63 AW
Replacing one headbolt at a time will not work. The headbolts are all torqued down at the same time to apply even pressure to the gasket. Once you break that seal, one at a time, you've got big problems on your hands and you will just end up having to do it the right way again....and hopefully more critical engine damage has not occurred at that point.
If I had a pre-headbolt change car, I would trade it in for one that's not. Yes, I love the car that much, and no I do not have faith that it "is just a handful of engines effected". Lots of lottery winners on this one.
If I had a pre-headbolt change car, I would trade it in for one that's not. Yes, I love the car that much, and no I do not have faith that it "is just a handful of engines effected". Lots of lottery winners on this one.
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From: Arizona
2011 C63
Replacing one headbolt at a time will not work. The headbolts are all torqued down at the same time to apply even pressure to the gasket. Once you break that seal, one at a time, you've got big problems on your hands and you will just end up having to do it the right way again....and hopefully more critical engine damage has not occurred at that point.
If I had a pre-headbolt change car, I would trade it in for one that's not. Yes, I love the car that much, and no I do not have faith that it "is just a handful of engines effected". Lots of lottery winners on this one.
If I had a pre-headbolt change car, I would trade it in for one that's not. Yes, I love the car that much, and no I do not have faith that it "is just a handful of engines effected". Lots of lottery winners on this one.
Marlin, both you and I have differing opinions on this and that is fine. But look at post number 15 for a real world example.
Last edited by glennhl; Aug 28, 2014 at 08:34 PM.
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C63 Weistec Supercharged
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C63 AMG
Replacing one headbolt at a time will not work. The headbolts are all torqued down at the same time to apply even pressure to the gasket. Once you break that seal, one at a time, you've got big problems on your hands and you will just end up having to do it the right way again....and hopefully more critical engine damage has not occurred at that point.
If I had a pre-headbolt change car, I would trade it in for one that's not. Yes, I love the car that much, and no I do not have faith that it "is just a handful of engines effected". Lots of lottery winners on this one.
If I had a pre-headbolt change car, I would trade it in for one that's not. Yes, I love the car that much, and no I do not have faith that it "is just a handful of engines effected". Lots of lottery winners on this one.
You can do one at a time no problem at all. Just follow the MB spec for torque sequence.
9 bolts out of 10 is still a extraordinary amount of clamping force on a part with no other forces acting on it.
I've done one at a time with weistec arp studs, 20,000km and under 10lbs of boost and drove hard. Zero issues.
Gotta watch who you listen to on here, lots of these guys work in an office and can't even change their own oil, yet they preach the bible on auto mechanics.
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From: Battle Ground WA
C63AMG, NIssan NX2000, Pontiac Fiero GT
For whatever good it might do let me arm members with the "F" word. A while back I reviewed the pitiful success of class action suits on M 156 issues and others. The one case that stood out was a case of fraud (F) as interpreted by the court . A dealer had not disclosed to a buyer a repair attempt. That allowed a case to be heard.
More specifically , an MB defined pattern failure. In that case gas leaking from the tank onto the car. The used car dealer knew about the defect, but did not disclose.
More specifically , an MB defined pattern failure. In that case gas leaking from the tank onto the car. The used car dealer knew about the defect, but did not disclose.
Last edited by motoman; Sep 4, 2014 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Example
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2009 C63 AMG
Headbolt
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09 C63
My bill was $5000 roughly. They make more from cash payments anyway so they can cut you some discounts.
I got Mercedes to pitch in 10% from corporate and 10% from my dealer. You can do this by contacting your dealer if you have a good relationship. But I called corporate instead. After a couple weeks they approved the discount.
The discount would have been larger IF I had bought my car from a Mercedes Benz dealership. But just keep reminding them that this is a factory defect. And its on them to carry some of the responsibility. Talk to a manager or something.
Also if you have good service history and what not they'll be happy to do it.
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2009 C63 AMG
I definitely suggest doing it. I did mine at MB.
My bill was $5000 roughly. They make more from cash payments anyway so they can cut you some discounts.
I got Mercedes to pitch in 10% from corporate and 10% from my dealer. You can do this by contacting your dealer if you have a good relationship. But I called corporate instead. After a couple weeks they approved the discount.
The discount would have been larger IF I had bought my car from a Mercedes Benz dealership. But just keep reminding them that this is a factory defect. And its on them to carry some of the responsibility. Talk to a manager or something.
Also if you have good service history and what not they'll be happy to do it.
My bill was $5000 roughly. They make more from cash payments anyway so they can cut you some discounts.
I got Mercedes to pitch in 10% from corporate and 10% from my dealer. You can do this by contacting your dealer if you have a good relationship. But I called corporate instead. After a couple weeks they approved the discount.
The discount would have been larger IF I had bought my car from a Mercedes Benz dealership. But just keep reminding them that this is a factory defect. And its on them to carry some of the responsibility. Talk to a manager or something.
Also if you have good service history and what not they'll be happy to do it.
Appreciate your advise! Thank you!
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09 C63
Another word of advice from my research I don't think they will fix it til something goes wrong under warranty. If you get the coolant message repeatedly or are unusually losing coolant I suggest urging them to do the necessary preventative repair. They might act like they don't know what's going on but bring proof of what happens to our cars from this thing and convince them that you don't want to wait to have a blown engine in the picture.
Hopefully you don't have to deal with any BS but keep in mind It can start happening at any mileage. Putting in the new upgraded studs will save you a lot of headache. Just don't know if they would be willing to do it w/out complications.
Enjoy your car in good health my friend!
--Edit: Also I got the coolant message for a few months before doing something about it. But all was well.
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AMG GLC63. Audi R8
Great car. Surprised you found a 09 garage queen CPO. As far as the headbolt/lifter issue, MBZ will not do a retrofit. It has to fail first. Best bet is have the car serviced at the same dealer with the same SA. You are fortunate you have a CPO warranty with time on it. Even if you're out of warranty, MBZ has been willing to pick up some of the repair costs on low milage vehicles.
