Turbos and the m156
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Joined: May 2014
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From: BayArea, CA
2010 c63 (p31) w/LSD
While I know there are pros and cons of both turbos and superchargers manufactures (Mercedes included) have been moving away from superchargers and going turbo over the last few years so there must be a bigger advantage with turbos. Other than the new hellcat motor (6.2l 640hp) from dodge and the old caddy cts-v (which is dated and should be replaced soon so it will be interesting to see if they switch to turbo or not) everyone else seems to be using turbos.
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From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
While I know there are pros and cons of both turbos and superchargers manufactures (Mercedes included) have been moving away from superchargers and going turbo over the last few years so there must be a bigger advantage with turbos. Other than the new hellcat motor (6.2l 640hp) from dodge and the old caddy cts-v (which is dated and should be replaced soon so it will be interesting to see if they switch to turbo or not) everyone else seems to be using turbos.
Pedestrian safety standards have a lot of impact on European auto design.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...fatter-feature
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Joined: Jun 2013
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From: Melbourne
C63 AMG 507 Edition
The main reason is European pedestrian safety standards. There must be a "crumple zone" of dead space beneath the hood to absorb the energy of an impact with a struck pedestrian's head before it hits an engine component. Twin turbos, nestled low, can meet these standards while a centrally mounted supercharger in the center of the engine can't.
Pedestrian safety standards have a lot of impact on European auto design.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...fatter-feature
Pedestrian safety standards have a lot of impact on European auto design.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...fatter-feature
Would think emissions standards would be driving move to turbo charging over supercharging also.
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From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
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From: Melbourne
C63 AMG 507 Edition
My understanding is that turbos are more fuel efficient than superchargers (ie - all things being equal in terms of power/torque, you can extract more mpg from a turbo charged engine than a supercharged engine).
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From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
It might be a slight CO2/mile issue since it's an efficiency factor, but it's pretty slight. Any forced induction system produces an engine that uses less fuel under part load than the equivalent N/A engine of the same peak power, so I don't see calling the slight difference in efficiency a green issue at all.
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From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
Back in the days when the S55 Kompressor was the hot car, and MB announced they were scrapping the engine because of new pedestrian safety regulations, the automotive world let out a loud "WTF?" But now we have twin-turbo engines that are better. That's progress.
Tuners who sell blowers that fill the crumple zone are skating on thin ice. Just like you can't legally remove pollution equipment, if jurisdictions with these pedestrian safety laws wanted to go after the supercharger vendors they could. These aren't (yet) North American regulations so we don't think about them much, but I bet the European tuners do.
Tuners who sell blowers that fill the crumple zone are skating on thin ice. Just like you can't legally remove pollution equipment, if jurisdictions with these pedestrian safety laws wanted to go after the supercharger vendors they could. These aren't (yet) North American regulations so we don't think about them much, but I bet the European tuners do.
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Joined: Jan 2014
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C63
Brabus putts a twin turbo 6 liter V12 from the six hundred into the C 63 between the fenders.
Surely someone has the parts for thec63 engine. I've heard the C63 engine is smaller that the 5.5 they put in the SLK?
Surely someone has the parts for thec63 engine. I've heard the C63 engine is smaller that the 5.5 they put in the SLK?
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From: Texas
10 C six trizzle
owning 540whp blown c63 and turbo supra - that makes around the same on pump gas. I can tell you turbo lag sucks. The blowers only become a limitation at higher boost levels where they run out of efficiency, but even then you have to ask yourself how useful is 700whp on the street? lol. Putting on two turbos in a real tight engine bay has alot of problems. heat management for one, lack of space, 2 turbos, 2 wastegates, new exhaust manifolds/headers, intercoolers, remake the intake manifold as i doubt it would hold boost very well. Lots of drawbacks and the cost would far outway the blower kits available. Not to mention there would be no benefit. You'd lose the off idle crazy torque blower make from lag. Top end power would be the same as the blower. Weistec has already done the homework for you. You can make all the power in the world with the 156 once the internals are built up. Finding a transmission to hold it all is the problem.
Read some of the cls/e55 threads on turbos vs blowers. single compound kits and twins. they are all limited by stock internals of the engine.
Read some of the cls/e55 threads on turbos vs blowers. single compound kits and twins. they are all limited by stock internals of the engine.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 752
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From: Orange County CA
CLS63S
I've pitched the idea several times, but after everything is said and done with our motors, you may as well drop an M157 in the car and call it a day. Would be less of a headache. Probably cheaper also.
E55 guys are going turbo route right now. Its coming out pretty well. Right now they are running into tuning issues at high boost (throttle cut). There is one turbo build that is using a stand-alone system that should be finished very soon. The two below are using standard tuning methods on the stock ECU.
Heres a couple of builds, good read
RedBullJnky
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...omplete-3.html
http://instagram.com/p/oj41HWlTUx/
http://instagram.com/p/oZ8VNDlTfe/
Chawkins2001
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...orn-bip-4.html
http://s138.photobucket.com/user/cha..._3384.mp4.html
E55 guys are going turbo route right now. Its coming out pretty well. Right now they are running into tuning issues at high boost (throttle cut). There is one turbo build that is using a stand-alone system that should be finished very soon. The two below are using standard tuning methods on the stock ECU.
Heres a couple of builds, good read
RedBullJnky
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...omplete-3.html
http://instagram.com/p/oj41HWlTUx/
http://instagram.com/p/oZ8VNDlTfe/
Chawkins2001
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...orn-bip-4.html
http://s138.photobucket.com/user/cha..._3384.mp4.html
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 466
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owning 540whp blown c63 and turbo supra - that makes around the same on pump gas. I can tell you turbo lag sucks. The blowers only become a limitation at higher boost levels where they run out of efficiency, but even then you have to ask yourself how useful is 700whp on the street? lol. Putting on two turbos in a real tight engine bay has alot of problems. heat management for one, lack of space, 2 turbos, 2 wastegates, new exhaust manifolds/headers, intercoolers, remake the intake manifold as i doubt it would hold boost very well. Lots of drawbacks and the cost would far outway the blower kits available. Not to mention there would be no benefit. You'd lose the off idle crazy torque blower make from lag. Top end power would be the same as the blower. Weistec has already done the homework for you. You can make all the power in the world with the 156 once the internals are built up. Finding a transmission to hold it all is the problem.
Read some of the cls/e55 threads on turbos vs blowers. single compound kits and twins. they are all limited by stock internals of the engine.
Read some of the cls/e55 threads on turbos vs blowers. single compound kits and twins. they are all limited by stock internals of the engine.
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 918
Likes: 21
From: NYC
2017 C63S coupe '09 C63, '15 Durango RT, '14 Jeep SRT8
Is a Supra your only experience with a turbo charged car? You can't compare a Supra with today's turbo set ups. Properly sized turbos have minimal lag. Turbos are far for efficient, there's no parasitic loss, etc. I enjoy both roots blowers and turbos. Just depends on my mood.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 579
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From: SF Bay Area
2009 C63, 2000 ML 430, 1994 Del Sol Vtec
owning 540whp blown c63 and turbo supra - that makes around the same on pump gas. I can tell you turbo lag sucks. The blowers only become a limitation at higher boost levels where they run out of efficiency, but even then you have to ask yourself how useful is 700whp on the street? lol. Putting on two turbos in a real tight engine bay has alot of problems. heat management for one, lack of space, 2 turbos, 2 wastegates, new exhaust manifolds/headers, intercoolers, remake the intake manifold as i doubt it would hold boost very well. Lots of drawbacks and the cost would far outway the blower kits available. Not to mention there would be no benefit. You'd lose the off idle crazy torque blower make from lag. Top end power would be the same as the blower. Weistec has already done the homework for you. You can make all the power in the world with the 156 once the internals are built up. Finding a transmission to hold it all is the problem.
Read some of the cls/e55 threads on turbos vs blowers. single compound kits and twins. they are all limited by stock internals of the engine.
Read some of the cls/e55 threads on turbos vs blowers. single compound kits and twins. they are all limited by stock internals of the engine.
Put two smaller turbos on a 6.2L v8 to make another 200 hp? Not as much.
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Posts: 2,296
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From: Texas
10 C six trizzle
Is a Supra your only experience with a turbo charged car? You can't compare a Supra with today's turbo set ups. Properly sized turbos have minimal lag. Turbos are far for efficient, there's no parasitic loss, etc. I enjoy both roots blowers and turbos. Just depends on my mood.
Turbo cars I currently own....
3.5L v8 tt lotus esprit
fd mazda rx7 1.3L tt - forsale anyone want to buy it? very suprising low end torque.
2.0L and 2.3L t eclipse gst and gsx
3.0L t supra
I can honestly say I've driven every modern benz with the exception of the slr and sls black series. Yes turbo technology has come along way, These new 5.5L "63" motor suck compared to the old school 55 kompressors in the torque department. Sure turbos are more efficient and dont have parasitic loss this is true, but there is still lag guys. supercharger technology has improved too. The twin screws make full boost off idle instantly. For a street car it's way more desirable. Why does it matter that you aren't gaining the power free of robbing alittle power? are you worried about mpg? it's already a 6.2L lol
go look at those links posted. The e55 stock kompressor car with a big single vs the tt cls55. It's a cheaply built and rear mounted turbo - probably the worst way to mount a turbo but the guy admitted the idea was to do it cheap. Look at the dyno comparison. same top end, however the stock kompressor is killing it while those twins spool up. if this was compared to the updated twin screw wiestec kit it would be just like the stock kompressor + single turbo kit with way less parts and complications.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 466
Likes: 32
Turbo cars I currently own....
3.5L v8 tt lotus esprit
fd mazda rx7 1.3L tt - forsale anyone want to buy it? very suprising low end torque.
2.0L and 2.3L t eclipse gst and gsx
3.0L t supra
I can honestly say I've driven every modern benz with the exception of the slr and sls black series. Yes turbo technology has come along way, These new 5.5L "63" motor suck compared to the old school 55 kompressors in the torque department. Sure turbos are more efficient and dont have parasitic loss this is true, but there is still lag guys. supercharger technology has improved too. The twin screws make full boost off idle instantly. For a street car it's way more desirable. Why does it matter that you aren't gaining the power free of robbing alittle power? are you worried about mpg? it's already a 6.2L lol
go look at those links posted. The e55 stock kompressor car with a big single vs the tt cls55. It's a cheaply built and rear mounted turbo - probably the worst way to mount a turbo but the guy admitted the idea was to do it cheap. Look at the dyno comparison. same top end, however the stock kompressor is killing it while those twins spool up. if this was compared to the updated twin screw wiestec kit it would be just like the stock kompressor + single turbo kit with way less parts and complications.
3.5L v8 tt lotus esprit
fd mazda rx7 1.3L tt - forsale anyone want to buy it? very suprising low end torque.
2.0L and 2.3L t eclipse gst and gsx
3.0L t supra
I can honestly say I've driven every modern benz with the exception of the slr and sls black series. Yes turbo technology has come along way, These new 5.5L "63" motor suck compared to the old school 55 kompressors in the torque department. Sure turbos are more efficient and dont have parasitic loss this is true, but there is still lag guys. supercharger technology has improved too. The twin screws make full boost off idle instantly. For a street car it's way more desirable. Why does it matter that you aren't gaining the power free of robbing alittle power? are you worried about mpg? it's already a 6.2L lol
go look at those links posted. The e55 stock kompressor car with a big single vs the tt cls55. It's a cheaply built and rear mounted turbo - probably the worst way to mount a turbo but the guy admitted the idea was to do it cheap. Look at the dyno comparison. same top end, however the stock kompressor is killing it while those twins spool up. if this was compared to the updated twin screw wiestec kit it would be just like the stock kompressor + single turbo kit with way less parts and complications.
You have a great collection of cars but I now understand why you equate turbos with lag. Drive a new 991 turbo, a GTR, or E63S. Turbo lag is hardly noticeable. Don't get wrong. I enjoy the instant torque of a supercharger. But, turbos are the way to go when it's possible.
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From: Australia
09 C63
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
SL63
Guess you guys weren't around then, but Kleemann already did a twin turbo M156 years ago back in 2007.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10712272...ml63k-bi-turbo
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10712272...ml63k-bi-turbo
Thread Starter
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c63
I will be paying him a visit when it's time
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,175
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From: Australia
09 C63
I would highly recommend going through sonny for any boosted c63 in oz. give us a buz when your ready to go ahead and il give you my insight as to why. I hope you do it soon bud!
Thread Starter
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c63
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From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
I think you may be on to something!
Fellas anything is possible with the right $$, I know that Heffner performance was talking about building a turbo M156 a while back.
You can definitely fit a pair of snails in the W204 chassis with the M156.
It will be epic to see someone do it. A lot of time and effort, but will probably yield ridiculous power. I remember the review where Chris Harris stated that the tech engineers at AMG laughed at him when he asked what kind of boost the M156 can take. Its a tough motor. It will handle the boost well.
Fellas anything is possible with the right $$, I know that Heffner performance was talking about building a turbo M156 a while back.
You can definitely fit a pair of snails in the W204 chassis with the M156.
It will be epic to see someone do it. A lot of time and effort, but will probably yield ridiculous power. I remember the review where Chris Harris stated that the tech engineers at AMG laughed at him when he asked what kind of boost the M156 can take. Its a tough motor. It will handle the boost well.
It has nothing to do with $$, I have plenty of it and you dont see me trying to put turbos on any or my cars. Case and point, there is a tt M159 SLS in California, they have had lots of problems with it, tuning was a nightmare and it makes less hp and tq than my Weistec 3.0L twin screw powered SLS. So while somebody is trying to figure out how to squeeze a couple turbos into the engine bay of an M156 powered car I will be out running 8's with my SC's M156.......case closed.
