Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.51
MB-Approval 229.31

But NOT the BEVO chart required 229.5
????


But this does???

Mobil 1 Formula M 5W-40 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.5
MB-Approval 229.3

 

There’s the simple rule of thumb, and there’s the technical answer.

The simple rule of thumb is just follow the manufacturer's recommendation. If a manufacturer says to use a particular brand, use that brand. Manufacturers have mechanical engineers on staff whose sole job is to know what's best. This is despite the fact that they occasionally goof and say their "transmissions are sealed for life" or their head bolts come apart or [fill in the blank]. If that voice in the back of your head has you convinced that your manufacturer is gouging you, or you’re smarter than them, or [fill in the blank], you may want to consider swapping manufacturers. There should be a degree of trust between the retailer and consumer. If there’s no trust, why bother? As always, YMMV. Especially if you lease.

If you'd prefer a technical answer, first lets review the basics. Lubrication is dependent on flow. Viscosity, as it's measured in motor oil, is a measure of a fluid's resistance to flow, or it's "thickness". That "thickness" is quantified in centiStokes (cSt), which was named after Stokes Law for Friction. Motor oil thickness is temperature dependent. The normal operating temperature for motor oil is 100°C. So, that brings us to the logical question - what's the optimum thickness for motor oil at its normal operating temperature?

Attached are two Mobil1 product data sheets from the Exxon Mobil website. Not a secret phone conversation. Not a document passed to me by a tech because I’m a member of the motor press, but specifications at their site for the entire Internet world to see. One is for Mobil1 0W-40 and the other for Mobil1 5W-40. At 100°C, Mobil1 0W-40 is 14 cSt while Mobil1 5W-40 is 14.8 cSt. Both 14 cSt and 14.8 cSt are fine. If the motor oil in all MB engines was always in that range, there would be no wear, and those engines would outlive most of us. Now look at the cold start ratings. 0W-40 is 78.3 cSt. 5W-40 is over 100 cSt. Both are too thick for proper lubrication. That's why most engine wear occurs during cold starts - the motor oil is too thick to properly lubricate. Ever wonder how some taxi drivers put a half million miles on a single engine regardless of the manufacturer? The answer is right here - they never cool down. Eliminating cold starts, cuts out a ton of wear. This is also why engine builders insist that engine loads be kept at a minimum until the oil temperature is up to normal operating temperature. Why is 14 cSt, or thereabouts, important to Mercedes-Benz? Because their engineers are the ones who decided things like bearing clearances.





Technically speaking, if someone feels a brand-x / non-approved motor oil will do a better job, that oil should have a cold start rating that’s closer to 14 cSt than it is to 214 cSt. In addition, that brand-x motor oil should be able to claim its cSt rating holds steady over the life of its use - and yes, there are oils that fall on their faces (or in their feces as those with ruined engines may say).

Having written all that, what’s the brand that you’d prefer to use and what’s their cSt rating? Lastly, do they, the manufacturer, print that rating anywhere?

Absolute lastly, I'm not pushing one brand of motor oil, whether approved or not approved. The owner of a vehicle should use whatever they feel most comfortable using.

 

Why yes there have. In fact, the damages were proven in a court of law. Once upon a way back when, Mercedes-Benz was selling brand new cars and a new fangled thing called FSS. And some owners of said cars put dino juice in them. And the new cars became heaps of junk sooner than expected. And the public was unhappy. And MBUSA said "But you used the wrong oil!!". And someone took MBUSA to court. And the Judge didn't agree with MBUSA. And I think that is known as the O'Keefe settlement. Yes, I know that's a lot of "ands", and I did it for effect - Here's a link.

 

Here's a settlement summary
http://www.autosafety.org/1998-01-me...-engine-damage
the contention was that they were not advised that mineral oil should not be used

The other link is a partial summary judgement in MB's favor
10 years after the settlement someone wanted to sue again for the same thing or associated damages

 

Here's the spec for castrol edge 5w40
http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf%5C...18_2011_09.pdf
Very similar to the mobil 1 0w40

I would think if push came to shove a court may find this equivilent
The arguement would be they are limiting our choices, how many xw40's are on sale in the US that meet 229.5 ?? Not many
Forcing you to buy a certain product at perhaps a higher cost
From a company MB has a business relationship with

But why risk it?
Just use an approved oil

 

I doubt that would hold water in court. That oil is approved for 229.3 so you can't argue it's collusion. 229.3 oils don't meet the extended-life requirements for 229.5. There are Castrol Edge oils that do, and are approved for 229.5. MB has reasonable technical reasons for certifying that as 229.3 and not 229.5 and reasonable engineering reasons to require 229.5 oil in an engine.

O'Keefe was very different. MB messed up by calibrating FSS for synthetics but allowing non-synthetics to be used. They dug their own grave when they refused to reimburse service departments for oil changes that were clearly needed but not "approved" by FSS. The dealerships got burned and were actually on the owners' side. MB dropped the ball big-time and paid.

 

The 5w40 specs above aren't for the 5w40 used in the M156. The 5w40 M is what MB puts in the M156 (the 5w40 Diesel is a completely different oil to the M and is inferior, in regards to M156 application). The 5w40 M has a lower ash content than both the 5w40 Diesel and 0w40 (5w40 M is 0.6%) and has a higher flashpoint (236C) than either. That higher flashpoint means less "burn off" between oil changes. That means the 0w40 has greater "burn off" between changes. This means that the ash % increases as the oil "burns" and requires topping off (because the ash is left behind when the oil burns). The fact that the 5w40 M has less than half of the sulfated ash to begin with, as well as a higher flashpoint, means that it is less likely to cause sludge buildup (from burn off) and a accrues less wear (due to the significantly lower ash content).


There's that, but it is also widely accepted that the 5w40 alleviates the lifter noise issue.

 

I got it, I got it. I'll stick to MB approved oils.

It's not that I was planning on using a non-spec'ed oil, I just don't necessarily trust auto mfgs when it comes to telling me what is best, when that "best" is usually a compromise dictated by bean counters, and is typically dis-proven rather quickly by the aftermarket.

But in this case, it seems there's something to it as VAG/BMW/MB each have their own required spec oils. I guess the Germans do hold themselves to a higher standard.

 

Really?
You are going to presuppose a jury?
OJ walked
MB settled for $35 per class member
Peanuts
And a promise to repair if THEY deemed it related

There are no Castrol xw40 229.5 oils
Are there any readily available in the US other than Mobil??
Lubro/Liqui moly is not readily available

MB engineers may find valid techical justification
I bet Castrols would differ lol
BOTH sides get to make arguements in these matters

Big difference between synthetic vs conventional and synthetics of the API classifications

 

And I wouldn't say they paid dearly
Maximum exposure including fees 37 mil
5 mil in fees
12 in the oil service discount they still made money on this
Just less than usual
20 mil in POSSIBLE warranty claims

On 16 BILLION in sales for the class
0.23% on sales..maximum
Barely a ding

How many people used the voucher?
What was the actual cost?
It may have made them money!!!
People getting dealers changes who normally wouldn't
And the other 'issues' discovered during the service lol
If they made $70 per voucher it paid for the entire settlement lol
Factor in tax advantage to the 'losses' and they made money

 

Sure there are:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html

But you want to use a 229.3 oil and get paid for it. You're right, a jury can decide anything.

Valvoline and Pennzoil both sell approved oils that are widely distributed in the US:
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/synpower.pdf
http://www.pennzoilinformationprogra...Plat_specs.pdf

 

There is a 229.5 spec for Castrol in the UK....lol
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html

 

The Castrol xw40 that sells in the US 'meet the spec' they are not 'approved'
Big difference

 

Simmer down sugar britches
Never said I wanted to use it (btw it's on your list as approved lol)
Just said it would be a 50/50 court case


The only one actually approved * by valvoline the HST is not sold in the US
Pennzoil, again merts requirements not formal approval

 

What are you talking about? Look on the bevo page. Everything there has formal approval.

Formal approval on label:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-me...e=UTF8&index=0

It's also in bevo list, by name.

 

Those are not sold in the US

look at a bottle in a store

Besides
Bevo is good for your position
But when it says only 229.5 for the m156 (world less WE) it's not??

 

This is listed by name. O'Reilly sells it.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...1189&ppt=C0252

Not sure what your point is. But I gotta run. It's been fun.

 

Just stop telling people to use 229.51 in direct contradiction to the BEVO engine oil spec chart

My point is the link is zip

 

OP - as I think can see from the above, wouldn't it just be easier for us all if you'd simply agree to use MB spec oil? I've seen this debate before and it'll drive us all into the grave (not that I haven't been involved in similiar "spirited" debates before myself).

Just go with what MB recommends, and my advice is follow the brand name exactly as there are many very similarly named oils, that aren't the same. And use what's in the BEVO chart (most of which won't be available in your country, mind you).

 

Bottom line: 0w-40 and 5w-40 Mobil 1 synthetic (of the proper spec) are good to go.

This has even been confirmed on the AMG Private Lounge.

Furthermore, when I had my Service A recently (which included an oil change), my Service Adviser showed me a document faxed to him from Mercedes-Benz Service Engineering. This document clearly stated which oils were approved for the M156 motor in the C63 as of July 2014.

 

If you look in BEVO http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf
It's clear the non western europe m156 is spec 229.5
Who knows if it correct but that is what it lists

Under 229.5 they list a NON esp 5w40 formula M
Under 229.51 the list the ESP 5w40 formula M
What does the dealer use?

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
Both updated 7/3/2014

 

I'm certain those oils are one and the same. Mobil has their entire (current) product line listed on their website and their is only one Mobil 1 5w40 M. The "ESP" stands for "Emission System Protection". Whoever typed up those MB memos left the "ESP" designation off. There is another Mobil 1 5w40, but it isn't the "M" formula, it's specific to Turbo Diesels.

 

Don't think it is a typo

Non esp 5w40 229.5 approval
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...a_M_5W-40.aspx

ESP 5w40 229.51 approval
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...a_M_5W-40.aspx

I was thinking the esp is the newer replacement for the non esp
But why wouldn't list 229.5 AND 229.51?

 

0w40 turbo deisel
229.5 approved
http://www.mobil.com/Germany-English...sel_0W-40.aspx

 

Yeah, I've seen that page before. It was available at one time, but it doesn't appear to be a part of the current product lineup. Besides, it's inferior to either the ESP 5w40 M and 0w40 because it's right in the middle with ash content (.90%), but has the lowest flashpoint (236C for ESP5w40 M, 230C for 0w40, and 228C for the non esp).

It may meet both 229.5 and 229.51, but was only tested under one.


... or maybe the non ESP is only available at MB dealers. I can't think of a good reason for them to carry it, other than maybe older Diesel engine applications.

Glad I started doing my own oil changes.