Ingenieur

The alignment looks pretty good with the exception of camber which is natural when lowered and rear toe

Camber about 1 deg high all around and off 1/2 deg

My 09 specs rear toe at 24 min or 0.4 deg, yours seems too low?

My front camber spec for my first alignment was -1.5 deg +\- 1/2 deg so I guess 1 one side and 2 on the other, ie, 1 deg across is OK?

Second was 1.4 +\- 0.37 deg (22min) and was out of cross tolerance at a delta of 42 min or 0.7 deg

Both done at a dealer
Looks like bolts at all 4 corners?

Guess you could 2 on the right side and run 2.2 front and 1.7 rear
Front out of spec 0.3 deg
Rear in the middle of mid point of spec and high limit side of spec...at least for an 09

Ihopaz

So my shop told me they got a caster camber kit set of 4 bolts each side to help the adjustment because of the limited ability of adjustment on a stock 2013 c class.

What would you recommend?

Ingenieur

If they can use the bolts to get everything to spec mid point go for it

Although since it seems they might be floundering (rear toe seems way off) I would bite the bullet and take it to the dealer

I was under the impression
It was 1 bolt per corner, not 2?

Ihopaz

They just said 4 bolts not necessarily 2 per side. Sorry if I confused that.

Ingenieur

Out Of curiosity have you measured the ride height at all 4 corners?

Floor to fender lip along wheel centerline

Note tire sizes & fuel load when measured

Ihopaz

My worry about the dealer is, do you think they will be able to use aftermarket parts to fix this if that's what is needed?

Ihopaz

No but I will

Ingenieur

MDepends on the dealer I guess
They put H&R's on my RS4

What is the adjustment range of the MB replacement bolts?

If I could get the high side (right in your case) to match the low side by the dealer using oem replacement bolts I would do that and set toe towards the straight side of spec... I would do this if the bolts only give 1/2 deg as I think they do... If they do 1 deg do all 4 corners and shoot for mid spec for all settings

Ihopaz

The shop and another shop told me on my model there is no camber adjustment. However there are aftermarket bolts that will allow up to 2 degrees is adjustment. The shop tells me that might me a little high but they will certainly get me closer with those.

Ingenieur

There are MB bolts (some call them crash bolts) that have a limited range of adjustment

There are aftermarket kits that provide more range, in your case apparently 2 deg

Pretty sure it is a cammed bolt that can be adjusted from 0 up to 2 degrees
Not fixed at 2
This should allow for getting everything back to spec

Honestly either your shop or the dealer should be able to sort it out
The skill of the guy doing the work is paramount in this type of work

Ihopaz

Thank you, I will check in the up to vs set. The tech working on the car has been doing this at this shop for 19 years as I asked. They are right next door to some very high end shops or dealers and came highly recommended. If it doesn't work then to the dealer I go.

Either way thank you for all of your help. I'm out of town next week so it won't be back in the shop until following week. Do you mind if I pm you with any questions that pop up?

Ihopaz

The height is the same on each side but you can tell the right wheel almost looks crooked in my opinion.

roadtalontsi

with those specs you posted the car should be pulling left. Ideally to make that alignment better id put a mb factory bolt kit in the right front torque strut arm pulling it in. this will make the camber slightly more positive in the r/f bringing the difference between left and right camber closer, and increase the caster on the ride side as well. Now to help assist with poor wear that excessive camber causes, id put adjustment bolts in the left and right camber (main control arm) pulling them in, which will cause more positive camber pretty much equal on the left and right side as well as a slight reduction of caster in both as well.

If it is truly pulling right with the specs the way you posted, then you have a bent wheel or tire pull problem. Is is possible the front wheels and tires got swapped to opposite sides during the install? Is your perspective actually correct - is it really pulling, or are you saying you have to pull the wheel to the right to make it go straight. That would be considered pulling left. Is it actually pulling or the steering wheel just off center. All these things are important to consider and usually a matter of perspective that differ from person to person.

i have no idea how a bolt would change 2 degrees, and that sounds scary. you dont need 2 degrees of change for anything on your car. The factory adjustment bolts will work just fine for your application, and depending on the car and which arm they are installed in will change measurement 10-25 minutes. 30 minutes would be half a degree. 60 minutes in a degree

Ihopaz

It certainly pulls to the right I can get off the freeway to the right with no hands on the wheel. I attached the alignment sheet just in case I missed something. I think the shop got a caster camber kit or different Mercedes bolts but they have something they said that will bring them closer. Before they only used on bold on left side but still couldn't get is close to spec or to stop pulling.

See sheet bellow. I found some caster camber kits let me refined and post and please tell me your thoughts.

Ihopaz

These are the bolts I found for adjustment.

Ihopaz

Just incase it was a wheel or tire they swapped from side to side and drove it and there was no difference.

Can you please elaborate on what you said here, what is this? "mb factory bolt kit in the right front torque strut arm"

roadtalontsi

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/atta...camberbolt.jpg

these are the mb adjustment bolt kits. you get 3 positions, stock/no adjustment. pull the arm in and push the arm out.

Id pull the right front torque strut arm in (also called guide strut) https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...rms-f-susp.jpg would be part number 140 to help you visualize.
From that print out you posted, it really just looks like they adjusted the toe and thats all. Like i said your car should pull left. You've got alot of camber pull to the left and a little of caster to the right. Camber pulls twice as hard as caster does. Id take it to a dealer and see what they come up with. There is no reason the car should pull right with those specs unless your on a really bad crowned road - sloped for drainage.

also in that picture of the bolt kit it says the adjustment amount of change. That is not accurate at all so dont follow that to the T.

AMG3.2

So how many of these extended bolts do we need for a proper alignment after an HR install?

2?

Huchimo01

Hi to ALL,

I installed the H&R spring kit #29028-1 recently, and they pulled to the right as well. I had my buddy install them who owns a tire, wheel, alignment shop and he has never heard of a car pulling due to installing lowering springs. He drives several BMW M models and has lowered them all. They work on Porsche, BMW, MB, Audi. Aston Martin, and many others, and has never seen the problem like I had on my car.

Anyway, I called H&R a couple of months ago and got some snotty mouthed tech that said he had never heard of this problem. I asked him how that could be when the problem is all over the internet. Anyway I hung up the phone and removed the springs. I did find out about the alignment kit from Australia, and actually spoke with the head person there. He said he guaranteed his kit would correct the pulling issue, but I didn't want to plop down another $500 for the kit, and another several hundred to have it installed.

So car is back to OEM ride height, but with the 19" Forgestars and Michelin PSS tires it doesn't look bad at all. So a few minutes ago I called H&R and spoke with the office manager who says she will work to help resolve the issue. I am sending her the link to the forum so she can read about the many problems folks here are having with their H&R springs. Hopefully there will be a resolution in the near future.

As some folks have stated they assume there is a problem with the springs being installed incorrectly. If you have ever worked on cars enough and have either seen or had hands-on experience with spring installation, there isn't a lot that can go wrong. The springs sit in a way that is almost impossible to screw up. Plus it is difficult to imagine that many shops installing the springs incorrectly on so many cars.

There is an issue somewhere. MB mainly took out the adjustment capability for their own reasons. Not having to deal with adjusting camber and other suspension settings makes for faster and easier building of cars, so I guess it makes sense from their perspective. I did find the longer camber bolts from MB as some have mentioned here, but a 3mm adjustment relates to pretty much naught on the adjustment scale. I think I was told that equates to about umm, almost no adjustment. The kit from Australia seems to be the best option if you want to spend $500 plus and get rid of the pulling issues.

Me, as much as I liked it lower, it doesn't look all that different as it sets now. When I have some information from H&R I'll pass it along to the forum. In the meantime Good Luck and be safe...

deadlyvt

I have a 2010 on hr springs, didn't do the install previous owner did and car pulled to the right slight did an alignment myself and it's good now... I zeroed out the toe and reduced the camber as much as possible

AMG3.2

Awesome info! So 0 toe in the front? How much negative camber are we talking? A degree?

Also, what's the rear spec'd at?

Roswell

Sorry to hear about ur misfortune Huchimo, and good luck having H&R to do something about it.

Honestly, I would take it with a grain of salt if ur shop is telling u only our C63 have pulling issues after lowering. My brother lexus had pulling issue after Eibach springs.. Everytime u touch a suspension component u risk having alignment issues, it's physics. I still believe this is nothing an aligment can't fix.

AMG3.2

Hi all,

Can someone please advise me on how to fix my alignment after installing my HR Springs? My alignment shop pulled a read for me after telling me that I'd need the OEM Mercedes Bolts to correct it. I've got the OEM bolts in hand - just need to know where to put them.

Thank you!

deadlyvt

I think the best I could get the front too was like -2.3 the back is around -1.0
Was looking into some camber plates as I don't need that much front camber for street driving but the tires aren't wearing too badly

deadlyvt

Both of your front toes are pointing to the right... Toe in on the left and toes out on the right... And your rear axle is also causing the car to pull right as you have greater toe out in the rear left then the rear right... Rear axle steer is opposite of the front