DSC off
#1
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2010 E60 M5 and 2012 P31 C63 Coupe
DSC off
Who here drives with DSC completely off...?
I have only had the car a few weeks so still new to it, but drive in sport mostly, yet recently have found myself turning DSC completely off.
It seems that there is less sloppiness when switching gears or even downshifting. I don't know if this is just all mental but wondering if others have experienced similar, or just simply what are your experiences with DSC off v.s. Sport or the regular setting
I have only had the car a few weeks so still new to it, but drive in sport mostly, yet recently have found myself turning DSC completely off.
It seems that there is less sloppiness when switching gears or even downshifting. I don't know if this is just all mental but wondering if others have experienced similar, or just simply what are your experiences with DSC off v.s. Sport or the regular setting
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
You must own a BMW too (DSC).
It's got to be mental. I mean, having the TC off will prevent the car from cutting power in aggressive acceleration scenarios.
Perhaps you're noticing the crisper shifting of S and S+?
On public roads, I primarily stick to ESP Sport. There are simply too many variables on the street. Unless you have had some quality driving school training, I wouldn't recommend going too crazy with ESP Off, especially in inclement weather conditions.
It's got to be mental. I mean, having the TC off will prevent the car from cutting power in aggressive acceleration scenarios.
Perhaps you're noticing the crisper shifting of S and S+?
On public roads, I primarily stick to ESP Sport. There are simply too many variables on the street. Unless you have had some quality driving school training, I wouldn't recommend going too crazy with ESP Off, especially in inclement weather conditions.
#4
Super Member
Not to be too technical, but at least on my '14 C63 you can turn off ESP, but you can NEVER turn off traction control completely. When you go to sport mode or turn off ESP the system allows more wheel spin (which can improve grip in some scenarios), but TC is never completely disabled. At least this is what the manual states.
As far as driving feel is concerned, I haven't done nearly any driving with ESP off or in sport (I've been having enough fun so far with it on, but now I'm thinking I might wanna give it a try... ;-), but I can imagine that it would change feel since it's changing how the power is transmitted to the wheels. But then again, we all know how accurate butt dynos can be at sensing actual differences in performance.
Now I really wanna go do some burnouts...
As far as driving feel is concerned, I haven't done nearly any driving with ESP off or in sport (I've been having enough fun so far with it on, but now I'm thinking I might wanna give it a try... ;-), but I can imagine that it would change feel since it's changing how the power is transmitted to the wheels. But then again, we all know how accurate butt dynos can be at sensing actual differences in performance.
Now I really wanna go do some burnouts...
#5
Not to be too technical, but at least on my '14 C63 you can turn off ESP, but you can NEVER turn off traction control completely. When you go to sport mode or turn off ESP the system allows more wheel spin (which can improve grip in some scenarios), but TC is never completely disabled. At least this is what the manual states.
As far as driving feel is concerned, I haven't done nearly any driving with ESP off or in sport (I've been having enough fun so far with it on, but now I'm thinking I might wanna give it a try... ;-), but I can imagine that it would change feel since it's changing how the power is transmitted to the wheels. But then again, we all know how accurate butt dynos can be at sensing actual differences in performance.
As far as driving feel is concerned, I haven't done nearly any driving with ESP off or in sport (I've been having enough fun so far with it on, but now I'm thinking I might wanna give it a try... ;-), but I can imagine that it would change feel since it's changing how the power is transmitted to the wheels. But then again, we all know how accurate butt dynos can be at sensing actual differences in performance.
I usually drive with it off. But now that winter has kicked in, I leave it in sport if there is no snow on the ground in order not to lose studs on my studded hakka 8 winter tires. Excessive wheel spin is a bithc on studded tires. So in sport mode, wheelspin is reduced and it's easier on the tires/studs.
The sport mode is pretty good though, you can swing the back end quite a bit even with it on. During summer it's almost always off except in the rain where I use sport.
I don't use on except when cruising because my car doesn't allow to use the cruise control with it in sport/off modes.
I am a former F2000 racer and BMW instructor. Your mileage may vary.
#6
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Ford Truck, 2014 C63 AMG 507
Not to be too technical, but at least on my '14 C63 you can turn off ESP, but you can NEVER turn off traction control completely. When you go to sport mode or turn off ESP the system allows more wheel spin (which can improve grip in some scenarios), but TC is never completely disabled. At least this is what the manual states.
As far as driving feel is concerned, I haven't done nearly any driving with ESP off or in sport (I've been having enough fun so far with it on, but now I'm thinking I might wanna give it a try... ;-), but I can imagine that it would change feel since it's changing how the power is transmitted to the wheels. But then again, we all know how accurate butt dynos can be at sensing actual differences in performance.
Now I really wanna go do some burnouts...
As far as driving feel is concerned, I haven't done nearly any driving with ESP off or in sport (I've been having enough fun so far with it on, but now I'm thinking I might wanna give it a try... ;-), but I can imagine that it would change feel since it's changing how the power is transmitted to the wheels. But then again, we all know how accurate butt dynos can be at sensing actual differences in performance.
Now I really wanna go do some burnouts...
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#8
Super Member
"Characteristics when ESP® is deactivated
If ESP® is deactivated and one or more wheels
start to spin, the÷ESP® warning lamp in
the instrument cluster does not flash. In such
situations, ESP® will not stabilize the vehicle.
If you deactivate ESP®:
ESP® no longer improves driving stability.
engine torque is restricted to a limited
degree and the drive wheels are able to
spin.
The spinning of the wheels results in a
cutting action for better traction on loose
surfaces.
traction control is still activated.
PRE-SAFE® is no longer available, nor is it
activated if you brake firmly and ESP®
intervenes.
PRE-SAFE® Brake is no longer available, it
is also not activated if you brake firmly and
ESP® intervenes.
ESP® still provides support when you
brake."
It's amazing what you can actually find in a book when you bother to look. Did you think I was just making it up?
#9
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Ford Truck, 2014 C63 AMG 507
Jcfay is correct.
If you want to disable all electronic babysitters go into the service menu and enable the Dyno Mode.
Be aware, this disables all traction and stability control along with ABS. It will be like driving an old school muscle car. No automated driver assists, its all in the hands of the person behind the wheel.
If you want to disable all electronic babysitters go into the service menu and enable the Dyno Mode.
Be aware, this disables all traction and stability control along with ABS. It will be like driving an old school muscle car. No automated driver assists, its all in the hands of the person behind the wheel.
#10
For street driving I prefer to turn ESP off but only on warm dry days. Any slickness to the streets at all and I keep it on, or on Sport. At the track, it is a must to turn it off. Proper track driving drives the ESP nuts. With ESP constantly trying to reign you in the brakes can get too hot and you'll have brake fade quicker.
#11
Super Member
Nope, read your manual, dude. Jeez. It couldn't be more explicit. Fine, I'll help:
"Characteristics when ESP® is deactivated
If ESP® is deactivated and one or more wheels
start to spin, the÷ESP® warning lamp in
the instrument cluster does not flash. In such
situations, ESP® will not stabilize the vehicle.
If you deactivate ESP®:
ESP® no longer improves driving stability.
engine torque is restricted to a limited
degree and the drive wheels are able to
spin.
The spinning of the wheels results in a
cutting action for better traction on loose
surfaces.
traction control is still activated.
PRE-SAFE® is no longer available, nor is it
activated if you brake firmly and ESP®
intervenes.
PRE-SAFE® Brake is no longer available, it
is also not activated if you brake firmly and
ESP® intervenes.
ESP® still provides support when you
brake."
It's amazing what you can actually find in a book when you bother to look. Did you think I was just making it up?
"Characteristics when ESP® is deactivated
If ESP® is deactivated and one or more wheels
start to spin, the÷ESP® warning lamp in
the instrument cluster does not flash. In such
situations, ESP® will not stabilize the vehicle.
If you deactivate ESP®:
ESP® no longer improves driving stability.
engine torque is restricted to a limited
degree and the drive wheels are able to
spin.
The spinning of the wheels results in a
cutting action for better traction on loose
surfaces.
traction control is still activated.
PRE-SAFE® is no longer available, nor is it
activated if you brake firmly and ESP®
intervenes.
PRE-SAFE® Brake is no longer available, it
is also not activated if you brake firmly and
ESP® intervenes.
ESP® still provides support when you
brake."
It's amazing what you can actually find in a book when you bother to look. Did you think I was just making it up?
#12
Nope, read your manual, dude. Jeez. It couldn't be more explicit. Fine, I'll help:
"Characteristics when ESP® is deactivated
If ESP® is deactivated and one or more wheels
start to spin, the÷ESP® warning lamp in
the instrument cluster does not flash. In such
situations, ESP® will not stabilize the vehicle.
If you deactivate ESP®:
ESP® no longer improves driving stability.
engine torque is restricted to a limited
degree and the drive wheels are able to
spin.
The spinning of the wheels results in a
cutting action for better traction on loose
surfaces.
traction control is still activated.
PRE-SAFE® is no longer available, nor is it
activated if you brake firmly and ESP®
intervenes.
PRE-SAFE® Brake is no longer available, it
is also not activated if you brake firmly and
ESP® intervenes.
ESP® still provides support when you
brake."
It's amazing what you can actually find in a book when you bother to look. Did you think I was just making it up?
"Characteristics when ESP® is deactivated
If ESP® is deactivated and one or more wheels
start to spin, the÷ESP® warning lamp in
the instrument cluster does not flash. In such
situations, ESP® will not stabilize the vehicle.
If you deactivate ESP®:
ESP® no longer improves driving stability.
engine torque is restricted to a limited
degree and the drive wheels are able to
spin.
The spinning of the wheels results in a
cutting action for better traction on loose
surfaces.
traction control is still activated.
PRE-SAFE® is no longer available, nor is it
activated if you brake firmly and ESP®
intervenes.
PRE-SAFE® Brake is no longer available, it
is also not activated if you brake firmly and
ESP® intervenes.
ESP® still provides support when you
brake."
It's amazing what you can actually find in a book when you bother to look. Did you think I was just making it up?
+1
my MB SA has even told me this exactly pretty much but it's still sketchy to drive with ESP OFF in the wet etc
dyno mode disables everything though
#13
Super Member
EDIT: just checked the '08 manual. Nope, it's still on then too. FYI all MB manuals are available free online (just found this out...). Looks like MB thinks we'd all nuke ourselves if TC was able to be turned completely off...
Here's the link FYI: http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servic...owners_manuals
Last edited by jcfay; 12-28-2014 at 09:10 AM.
#14
Super Member
Thanks, then I apologize for the snarky tone. You sure about this? If so, enjoy the extra burnout and oversteer potential. Wonder when they made the change to keep TC on regardless? And I wonder how much of it is still on? It seems totally contradictory that ESP is off, which obviously allows some wheel spin, but TC still reins it in. Anyone know what the difference is driving with ESP off versus in dyno mode? Is it just an under/oversteer bonanza?
EDIT: just checked the '08 manual. Nope, it's still on then too. FYI all MB manuals are available free online (just found this out...). Looks like MB thinks we'd all nuke ourselves if TC was able to be turned completely off...
Here's the link FYI: http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servic...owners_manuals
EDIT: just checked the '08 manual. Nope, it's still on then too. FYI all MB manuals are available free online (just found this out...). Looks like MB thinks we'd all nuke ourselves if TC was able to be turned completely off...
Here's the link FYI: http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servic...owners_manuals
#15
Super Member
Thanks, then I apologize for the snarky tone. You sure about this? If so, enjoy the extra burnout and oversteer potential. Wonder when they made the change to keep TC on regardless? And I wonder how much of it is still on? It seems totally contradictory that ESP is off, which obviously allows some wheel spin, but TC still reins it in. Anyone know what the difference is driving with ESP off versus in dyno mode? Is it just an under/oversteer bonanza?
EDIT: just checked the '08 manual. Nope, it's still on then too. FYI all MB manuals are available free online (just found this out...). Looks like MB thinks we'd all nuke ourselves if TC was able to be turned completely off...
Here's the link FYI: http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servic...owners_manuals
EDIT: just checked the '08 manual. Nope, it's still on then too. FYI all MB manuals are available free online (just found this out...). Looks like MB thinks we'd all nuke ourselves if TC was able to be turned completely off...
Here's the link FYI: http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servic...owners_manuals
#16
Super Member
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...350sport_1.pdf
#17
Super Member
Yes, I am in the US.
If you pay attention, the manual in the link you provided does not cover the C63. It only covers the models below
If you pay attention, the manual in the link you provided does not cover the C63. It only covers the models below
#18
Super Member
Lool. My manual also states that all C63's in 2008 came with LSD but the experts here say that it didn't. I do know that my car will light up both rears with ESP off though.
#19
Super Member
#20
Super Member
#21
Super Member
#23
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W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Sorry - but you're completely wrong on this one. If you're lighting up the tires (or the TC engages if enabled), you are getting on the throttle much too rapidly. You need to work on being smooth instead of using the throttle like a binary on/off switch. The fastest lap times are when neither the ABS nor the TC engage and you actually use 100% of the available traction. That is, unless you're trying to drift on purpose - which I think may be the case if I correctly rememeber one of your earlier posts.
#24
Sorry - but you're completely wrong on this one. If you're lighting up the tires (or the TC engages if enabled), you are getting on the throttle much too rapidly. You need to work on being smooth instead of using the throttle like a binary on/off switch. The fastest lap times are when neither the ABS nor the TC engage and you actually use 100% of the available traction. That is, unless you're trying to drift on purpose - which I think may be the case if I correctly rememeber one of your earlier posts.
I feel it is safe to say that us forum drivers who track our cars DO NOT run perfect laps every single lap. I enjoy the pursuit of perfection in every sport that I play. I have not achieved it yet in any of them. During my pursuit I will experiment with the fine tuning of turn in point, entrance speed, line, exit speed, and application of throttle. I push my limits with how soon and how much throttle to apply during exit.
Yet I see the ESP reigning me in even when there is no rear tire spin and/or front tire slippage. I see the ESP reigning me in when I feel I am driving ~80% as hard as my best lap times with ESP off. Even with my deviations from perfection, I can drive my car harder, with faster lap times, with ESP off - and with much less brake fade.
You speak of the theoretical perfect lap yet how many of us (you included) run a perfect lap EVERY lap? Hence ESP is going to be activated (if kept on) and you are driving hard and pushing your limits. That is my experience and that is the nature of my earlier post. My brakes got too hot with the ESP trying to reign me in even though I new I could drive that track harder with it off.
So I shared this experience in my earlier (summarized) post. It is neither right nor wrong. It is just what I have seen.
#25
Super Member
I have a feeling that TC and/or ESP may be active when at limits far below what a legit race driver would utilize. Yes, not talking about drifting here but some slight over/understeer is going to occur as the norm and is acceptable. But if TC/ESP are active then, fighting what is acceptable and technical race driving, then they will try and fight those behaviors and apply the brakes. I think this was the point. It would be interesting to see data on how TC/ESP is applied in order to better judge their impact, but I trust people's experience with them on/off since I'm not a track guy myself.